Ambition or art?

[fet]

For your consideration, a philosophical question:

 

How much of my (our) motivation for creating and recording original music is ambition for glory and big bucks, and how much is sheer love of music? In other words, would we (I) create and record original music if I knew, FOR SURE, that no one much would hear it, care about it, pay for it, or notice me as a fine fellow?

 

Or in other words: If the top musicians worldwide achieved the same fame/glory/money as the top carpet installers worldwide, would there be as many people trying to create music?

 

My own belief is that there are too many musicians... I can't even find somebody to remodel my bathroom, but my singer-songwriter requirements are definitely being met in a big way...

[Tedster]

Hmmm...interesting qvestion, ja?

 

Lessee...I think the thought of fame, fortune, and glory are powerful motivators at the outset. When I was 16 I was gonna be the next Jimmy Page. Then at 25 I was gonna be in the hottest band in the area. Now, at 43, I'm happy to find a gig http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif...but seriously...

 

Like I said, at the outset, fame, fortune, glory, and women. Actually probably fame, women, fortune, women, glory, women, and women. Then, one lands a woman, and one realizes that one has fallen hopelessly in love with the art side of it. It was there all along, really, one just doesn't think of focusing on that aspect until the more urgent pursuit of peer respect is met.

 

John Fahey was once quoted as saying, "I learned how to play guitar after watching all of these cowboys serenading their ladies in the park. I never did get any ladies, but, on the other hand, I learned a lot about playing the guitar". http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

I saw a documentary once where they were interviewing flight school candidates for the RAF. These jolly good chaps were going on at the interview about how they wanted to be fighter pilots for the glory and swashbuckling side of being a pilot. None of them got the chance. The guy who got the chance said nothing of glory, he said, rather: "I've always loved airplanes, loved flight, I've wanted to fly ever since I can remember". That's what the interviewer was looking for. The same applies to music. If we're only in it for the "glory", then it's time to seek another career. If we're in it for the love of the music, because from the day you were 12 you had pictures of Les Pauls taped on your bedroom wall until that blissful day you could finally afford one, then you'll accomplish the feat of attaining your own personal musical Nirvana.

[Jim Aikin]

I'm not sure this is an either/or question. If you love music, you'll naturally want to share what you love with others, either onstage or via recordings. At a certain point, being able to earn some money from your efforts will start to seem very helpful as a step up to the next level.

 

As you go along, you may eventually find that having a career/business plan, complete with revenue projections and a working knowledge of contract law, is the best way to nurture your original love of music.

 

On the other hand, putting your music (painting/writing/acting/whatever) out in the world and having it ignored is a giant bring-down. That's my experience, anyhow. I **hate** rejection. Calling this emotion a desire for glory and big bucks doesn't really do it justice, it seems to me.

 

--Jim Aikin

[KenElevenShadows]

At a guess, I'd say that almost all of my motivation is simply to create the best music that I can. It's certainly not for money or adulation. I create a sort of music that I create as Eleven Shadows is a bit odd, very atmospheric, and slightly off-kilter (especially the dither project). If I were trying to achieve fame and money, this would be an incredibly foolish way of doing it!!!! I've earned money from releasing CDs through record labels, but this has almost felt like an accident.

 

In playing out with my band Nectar, the motivation shifts somewhat to creating music with friends, but is still not geared towards fame or money. My friend asked if I wanted to jam and improvise based on cool bass grooves reminiscent of Portishead and "My Life in the Bush of Ghosts". Cool! Play fun music with my friend? Pretty hard to turn down. Brought in a couple of other friends, and it turned into a group! I get to hang out with friends and create music. Also, I wanted to become a little more proficient on guitar, and so as an extra challenge, decided to play primarily guitar in this band.

 

One cool thing that has come from the band and gigging was that during the first gig, my now-girlfriend showed up at our first gig and we hung out afterwards. This eventually led to where we are now. Now, this wasn't the intent of my playing with the band, but it's a darn fine bonus!

 

Speaking of our band, I'm about to dash off to rehearsal....

 

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Ken/Eleven Shadows/d i t h er/nectar

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music*travel photos*tibet*lots of stuff

"Sangsara" "Irian Jaya" & d i t h er CDs available!

http://www.elevenshadows.com

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[Guest]

Thanks to a series of (medically related circumstances) which I

won't get into a long spill over, I've found myself able to

spend an almost unlimited amount of time creating music once

again in my life. The situation is such that I presently really

have no ambition for my present projects to acomplish anything

other than explore the territory I want to artistically. In my case

having the chance to do this is very satisfying and

somewhat theriputical.

 

With that said, no matter how blessed I may feel artistically at this time in life, there's some kind of underlying ambition and motivation.

 

Ambition, though you can put many faces on it in it's simplest form is

one of the caytalists in our simple biological urges to survive (eat and live as comfortably and easily as possible) and reproduce. No matter what

you may think your goals are artistcally, regardless of how you try to shine and polish them with honor, by the very nature of life, there has to be a blemish of ambition involved.

 

I think I stated this in another thread related to this topic awhile back.

 

You can't seperate the two. If artistA happens to be 1 of xxxxxxx number of people to be able to

survive on pure artistic integrity, then it was comparable to winning the lottery, one hell of a draw of the cards, but certainly not something that you can even support a conversation on ambition vs artistic integrety. In the other xxxxxxx-1 chances of fate, you'll have to find a marriage of ambition and art. Simple realities.

 

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William F. Turner

Guitarist, Composer

 

This message has been edited by wfturner@csonline.net on 02-16-2001 at 08:29 AM

[miroslav]

We touched on a lot of this in the "Artistic Integrity" thread a month or so ago. I don't know if anything was clarified or generally agreed upon back then, and I don't even want to go back to that thread!!!

 

For me, as a kid, getting "into" music was partly an "ambient" experience and it was also in some ways "thrust" upon me.

 

When I was about eight years old, mom and dad (mostly mom) decided that my sister and I HAD TO take music lessons!!! Sis took piano and I took guitar, but I very quickly added the piano too. At first I hated it, but I think it was because they were lessons.

 

During that time I was also heavily exposed to Top 40 via the juke box in my dad's luncheonette. Pretty soon I began experimenting and improvising beyond the lessons, and I started to enjoy making music.

 

As a teenager I realized, as Tedster pointed out above, that music was a MAJOR magnet for women, friends and most social affairs. Everyone loved you if you could play and sing. That's when the visions of fame & fortune kicked in.

 

Well, as I've gotten older my feelings about "makin' music" haven't changed at all, but my visions of fame & fortune have "modified".

I would still like to "break through" and really make some BIG music bucks...but I can also be very happy just writing, playing and recording for my own pleasure.

[JP_dup5]

Originally posted by fet:

... I can't even find somebody to remodel my bathroom, but my singer-songwriter requirements are definitely being met in a big way...

 

Hey Fet, you can't learn to remodel bathrooms while smoking pot in your bedroom!

In 1992, at age 48, I quit playing music (something I had done since age 11). I have a wife and three kids that I needed to support. I couldn't get the type of job that required the effort necessary to make 40 or 50K a year (with no skills/education) and play music at the level I was. Now my kids are teenagers and want me to do what will make me the happiest, they also dig the fact that their dad is/was a serious musician. Now, I don't have the energy or desire to start a club band in a new town where I don't know anyone in the business, so I am primarily a songwriter with ties to Nashville....but, guess what? Now my job is suffering...but I have songs on hold in music city...guess what I do for a day job... I teach management/organizational/multi-tasking skills...go figure

Peace

JP

[Lee Flier]

Well fet, I think everybody's motivations are different. For sure, there are a LOT of people who wouldn't give a damn about music if they didn't think they'd eventually make a pile of money, have lots of people fawning all over them and all the partying they can stand.

 

But it's all a matter of degree really. I think Jim is right that most people do want to be heard. You might be doing what you're doing for the love of music, but there's something kind of sad about music without an audience, even a small audience of friends or family. Lots of us write and play music in order to share our souls with others. A lot of musicians also acknowledge that they felt a bit attention-deprived or left out as kids and music was a way to have a social life and get a little attention. Nothing wrong with any of these things unless it (the need for attention) becomes pathological, which unfortunately a lot of times it does when you're talking about people who just wanna be rock stars.

 

Personally, I'm making music because I love it, but I also make no bones about the fact that I do want it to be heard. If I make money in the process, I don't complain about that either, BUT money is definitely secondary to everything else. And I certainly would not change what I do or how I approach music wholesale, if I thought I could reach a larger audience or make more money. I'd rather have a smaller, loyal audience who really gets what I do than a bunch of mindless screaming fans trying to tear my clothes off. Like Richard Thompson - that guy's got it made! He's phenomenally talented but totally NOT commercial and has never followed commercial trends. But, he's never without a record deal and has a small but intensely loyal and devoted audience. He can walk around on the street without being bothered, but can do whatever he wants musically, make a decent living and have a great audience. Now that's living!

 

--Lee

[Graham English]

"My own belief is that there are too many musicians..."

 

I believe there can never be enough musicians. The monetary success is out there and can be made a reality if you put enough energy into that goal. But in terms of competition, welcome it. The competition between peers keeps everything fresh and inspires development. And the sheer joy in the creative power of music should be encouraged for all. Not everyone will make a living making music, but those who do will want someone to play with!

As for how we are motivated- depends on the person and at what time you ask. Our intentions are superficial and deep, wide and narrow, conscious and sub-conscious. But before the mind begins to think, there is a spark of creativity that is pure. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

This message has been edited by transrational on 02-16-2001 at 11:52 AM

[KenElevenShadows]

>> >>"My own belief is that there are too many musicians..."

 

I believe there can never be enough musicians. >>

 

So true!!

However, there may be a thing as too many CDs!

 

My efforts try to go towards creating music that is completely my music. Then, only afterwards, do I try and have as many people hear it as possible. This works for me, but I don't pass judgment on people who create music for more "commercial" purposes. 'Course, I may not end up playing in a band with them!