jraffertyuswest.net Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 I have been using cakewalk since 3.0. I continued to used it because of it's sequencing when audio was introduced. But since they switched to audio I have aquired a list of things that I never figured out about how cakewalk functions (or is supposed to function) -Does the cutting and pasting of audio actually work without producing pops and glitches at the edit points? About %50 percent of the time there will be a noticeable pop at the edit points. I am really wondering how they could be 5 versions deep with audio and not have fixed this. -This brings me to my second question. Snap to Zero function...Does this thing do ANYTHING at all? I will click on a spot and zoom in only to find that the curser is NOT actually at a zero crossing. Then since I had to zoom all the way in and thread the needle so to speak I will try to drop a marker on that spot so I wont have to do it again but the resolution of the markers is not as fine as that of the cursors so the marker may decide it doesn't want to go there! -Occasionaly there will be an edit that even after having zoomed all the way in and manually drawing a crossfade in, it will STILL POP. I have actually had a couple edits that literally could NOT BE FIXED. (Short of shaving a few milliseconds off the audio on one end or both) -Can the tempo be adjusted on the fly anymore? You used to be able to adjust the tempo of sequences while playing or looping. Now that they added the new "feature" where tiny little arrows pop up when you click on a box that has values the change in tempo is not reflected while you are incrementing the value. It waits until AFTER you click off the box that has the value in it. And you need a freaking protracter to triangulate your cursor on those tiny little arrows any way. -The track selection "feature" what gives with this thing? it seems now you have to be aware of two different selection indicators for the tracks. Half the time I wil paste something and a track that I was working on ten minutes previously will get pasted because somehow cakewalk kept that track selected even though I had selected a new track/tracks. AARGH! If I wanted to do something with that track I would have SELECTED IT. -Also you used to be able to have a sequence playing/looping, go to a new track, select a port/channel and start scrolling through sounds. Now if you do that with the music playing or looping you will find the patch you want, but as soon as you stop the sequencer and move off of that track all of the port/channel/patch info you just dialed in will dissapear. This means you have to completely STOP the sequencer every time you want to dial in a new sound. This is totally uninspiring and whats more is cakewalk used to perform this function just fine. I think it is a byproduct of the new selection "feature" -One more thing I haven't figured out how to use effectively is the audio to midi "extract timing" function. Has anyone used this effectively, I would like to try to place midi notes at every pulse of a snare of kick or whatever. I would't be against switching DAWs but every version of cubase I have tried crashed my computer, and I tried to do some simple wav driver routing in Logic once and came away wondering whey on earth they actually named in "Logic" since in was one of the most counter-intuitive interfaces I had ever seen. If anyone knows how to cure some of these problems, or has any suggestions I would appreciate it. Thanks, -josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Triny Posted February 7, 2001 Share Posted February 7, 2001 have you considered the Cakewalk newsgroup for your questions? It is very well represented and you'll get a lot of answers. news.cakewalk.com (Product.ProAudio newgroup) -david abraham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Sayers Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 I haven't noticed any of the problems you refer to http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif cheers john Studio Design Forum Studios Under Construction Home Page Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artnoiser Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 I had the exact same problem with audio editing. I haven't worked on Cakewalk for a long time, so after a few sessions, he told me about the zero crossing feature so I thought "how convenient." But I'd still hear pops...not always, but they'd show up, and I always thought I had just done something wrong until I realized that it does whatever the heck it pleases. I purchased a Digi001, and for my audio needs, it is plenty and it is beautiful. I do 90% audio recording and editing and 10% midi so far (actually, no midi at all yet, don't have any good cables). So ProTools, even the LE version, is sheer pleasure to work with, if I have to compare it to Cakewalk. LOL, even my friend who at first showed me how Cakewalk works, after seeing me work on ProTools called me a few days later to tell me how dissatisfied he all of the sudden was with Cakewalk, just from watching me work with it and then him going to Cakewalk. (I am more of an engineer than he is, he uses it to write, and to record jingles). If you are looking at changing software, Digidesign stuff is pretty expensive, and you pay for the name. I hear Digital Performer is really really good, and it's much more affordable (plus, I think their upgrades seem to be better, and they have more plugin coverage enabling people to use VST in addition to their own format). I do miss some of those Direct X plugins that I now can't use with ProTools. Give and take, I guess. I am happy nevertheless. artnoiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 The clicking and popping when cutting and pasting sounds audio hardware related as I don't seem to have that problem.As fars as My use of Cakewalk,it's because of a combination of creative and budget concerns.In this environment I can cut and paste drum parts frum Fruity Loops right into cakewalk,have Gigasampler running as well,and have Vsti at my disposal via an adapter.The only way I can approach this kind of flexibility with a digidesign seput is with a full blown version.I don't have the $$$ for that. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven dunston Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 >Does the cutting and pasting of audio actually work without producing >pops and glitches at the edit points? This is because you're not cutting at zero crossings and you're not using any fades on the edges of your clips. >This brings me to my second question. Snap to Zero function...Does this >thing do ANYTHING at all? Yes. It snaps to zero. :-) At least on mono tracks. Stereo tracks won't cross at the same place, so you'll have to use a volume envelope to do a fade-in. >but the resolution of the markers is not as fine as that of the cursors >so the marker may decide it doesn't want to go there! This is a snap issue. Turn off snap and you can put a marker anywhere you want. And for zooming in, place your cursor where you want it, then zoom in. Zoom will center around the cursor. >I have actually had a couple edits that literally could NOT BE FIXED. >(Short of shaving a few milliseconds off the audio on one end or both) Try volume envelopes. You can't get a pop if your volume envelope is at zero. And shaving audio is a normal way to get rid of a pop. >It waits until AFTER you click off the box that has the value in it. And >you need a freaking protracter to triangulate your cursor on those tiny >little arrows any way. You don't have to bring up the box. You can change the tempo on the fly by typing in a number in the tempo box and pressing enter. Also, if you're shifting back and forth between a couple of tempos, you can use the tempo ratio buttons for instant shifts. >The track selection "feature" what gives with this thing? It's for two things: MIDI focus and entering data from the keyboard. Click anywhere in the left side of the Track View to select a track, and your "track selector" and "clip selector" will be aligned in the same track. >This is totally uninspiring and whats more is cakewalk used to perform >this function just fine. I think it is a byproduct of the new >selection "feature" This is definitely annoying. But I don't know if it's related to the selection feature. The way around this is to do your real-time browsing in a track that already has a port, bank and channel selected instead of a completely blank track. >One more thing I haven't figured out how to use effectively is the audio >to midi "extract timing" function. Has anyone used this effectively, I >would like to try to place midi notes at every pulse of a snare of kick >or whatever. Some people have had luck with this feature. I haven't, but I didn't try too hard. >I would't be against switching DAWs No need to! Most of your questions have answers in your manual or on the Cakewalk newsgroups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraffertyuswest.net Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 Steve thanks for your reply but actually the manual doesn't cover these things. -If you read my post again you will see that I specified that even AFTER drawing the edit points in with fades I would still sometimes get pops. -And actually the snap to zero function does not always work. -clicking anywhere on the left side of the track does not gaurantee that your clip selector and track selector are on the same track. Try it, select a clip on track one. Then click "anywhere" on the left side of the pane on track 4. Now select a region (chorus etc.) to copy. Paste it. What gets pasted? The region from track 4 you say? You would think so, but actually track one is still in there. Old cakewalk didnt do this. Incidently, even if drawing the envelopes in worked 100% of the time I still consider it a fualt because the program should be able to put two chunks of audio together without having a pop at the edit point. Especially if one has the "snap to zero" function working. Sometimes even when I zoom all the way in and place the edit points on a zero crossing myself they still pop. I will to turn off the grid for the markers however hopefully this will work. Thanks, -Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinopop Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 Originally posted by jrafferty@uswest.net: -If you read my post again you will see that I specified that even AFTER drawing the edit points in with fades I would still sometimes get pops. 1. Open your clip in the audio view. 2. Click near the end of the sample. 3. Click the "Display Samples" button. (This is the one that has 5000/SAMPLES) 4. Make sure "Snap To" and "Zero Crossing" are turned off. 5. Zoom in to a fairly low resolution (Where the numbers at the top are in 100 or 50 sample increments. 6. Click and drag your mouse over the top bar to select the last few hundred samples. 7. Right click on the selected area and select fade. Pick the fade out option of your choice. 8. Repeat steps 1-7 on the front end only with a fade in. This is a bit of a pain but if you don't get the first and last sample(s) of the audio clip on zero your just gonna get pops. Its the nature of the beast. Granted I've worked with some editors that will do quick fades (Sound Forge I think?) and it would be nice if Cakewalk did this. One key thing to keep in mind is that if your view is not in "Sample" mode you may not be make your edits where you think you are as it will jump to the nearest unit (milliseconds in the time view or ticks in the measure beat mode.) Believe me I've done thousands of edits this way and know it can be done. You just have to know the secret handshake http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif -clicking anywhere on the left side of the track does not guarantee that your clip selector and track selector are on the same track. Try it, select a clip on track one. Then click "anywhere" on the left side of the pane on track 4. Now select a region (chorus etc.) to copy. Paste it. What gets pasted? The region from track 4 you say? You would think so, but actually track one is still in there. Old cakewalk didn't do this. This has screwed me a few times too. You either need to click on the track number on the left or the audio/midi clip on the right side to select the track. Its not very intuitive since you can basically select one of the fields on the left pain (oops, I meant pane) without selecting that track. Hang in there, Layne - Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven dunston Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 >-If you read my post again you will see that I specified that even AFTER >drawing the edit points in with fades I would still sometimes get pops. Are you drawing with a destructive tool like the draw tool, or are you using the volume envelope? The volume envelope is your best tool to use for this. >-And actually the snap to zero function does not always work. Doesn't work meaning what? That it doesn't snap to zero or that it doesn't reduce pops and clicks? >-clicking anywhere on the left side of the track does not gaurantee that >your clip selector and track selector are on the same track. Try it, >select a clip on track one. Then click "anywhere" on the left side of the >pane on track 4. Now select a region (chorus etc.) to copy. Paste it. >What gets pasted? The region from track 4 you say? You would think so, >but actually track one is still in there. Old cakewalk didnt do this. I misunderstood your original comment. If you click on the "4" itself when you want to switch to Track 4, you will find the behavior you want. >Incidently, even if drawing the envelopes in worked 100% of the time... Envelopes work 100% of the time. If you're getting pops with the volume envelope all the way down, you have a problem with your hardware. >I still consider it a fualt because the program should be able to put two >chunks of audio together without having a pop at the edit point. Some programs automatically perform fades when audio is pieced together. I prefer the Cakewalk method myself, because I don't want any fades that I didn't create. >Especially if one has the "snap to zero" function working. Sometimes even >when I zoom all the way in and place the edit points on a zero crossing >myself they still pop. What is your sound card? What is your bit rate? Does your sound card share an IRQ with any other device? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted February 8, 2001 Share Posted February 8, 2001 The popping problem sounds more like a DC offset issue, possibly in the sound card converters. I don't have any popping with PA9, and I even do a lot of butt splices. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jraffertyuswest.net Posted February 8, 2001 Author Share Posted February 8, 2001 I have a kt7/thunderbird700. Ibm gxp60. 256 megs pc133 ram. Matrox g200. Dsp factory card. ISA wavecenter lightipe card hooked up to O1v. Are any of these sound cards known to have these problems> Thanks, -Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted February 9, 2001 Share Posted February 9, 2001 Very unusual,Iv'e never heard of a system board for an Athlon that still has ISA slots,however since the ISA bus is slow compared to PCI I think that may be the root of your problem,especially with something as sensitive as the Athlon in relation to bus speed.The Athlon is also very picky about ram as well as I had to return and exchange 2 sticks when building my brothers system. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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