The King - Dead but NOT forgotten?

[miroslav]

So it came and went, and did anyone notice?

 

Happy (belated) Birthday - where ever you are.

 

Elvis Presley - The King!

 

I watched an Elvis docu-drama last night and I was still blown away, but sooo sad.

 

Almost 30 years since his death and you still feel his presence.

 

Will any ONE person ever effect music more than Elvis did and have as much staying power in death as in life?

 

His music career is over 40 years old and still going strong.

How much do todays "kids" notice his ever present influences?

[Max Ventura]

I, for one, couldn't care less. Sorry.

[Tedster]

I'm not a big Elvis fan either, but one can't deny his impact on popular music. Just about everyone most of us listen to today was either impacted by him, or, more likely, impacted by someone who was impacted by him. He caused a lot of kids to pick up guitars, so, my hat is off to ya, King...

 

Thankyouverrymu-uch...

[miroslav]

Originally posted by argomax:

I, for one, couldn't care less. Sorry.

 

Just curious..."couldn't care less" about his birthday or his influences?

 

I'm not saying you have to be a fan to appreciate and/or acknowledge his impact on rock & roll,... right into the new millennium.

 

 

 

This message has been edited by miroslav on 01-09-2001 at 10:15 AM

[Kris]

Well, I could care less that you could care less!!! This could go on forever. kinda pointless opinion.

[miroslav]

Originally posted by Kris:

Well, I could care less that you could care less!!! This could go on forever. kinda pointless opinion.

 

OK, so what is the point of posting YOUR opinion?

 

You don't have to post if you don't want to.

 

Pretty much 90% of all forum post are just that...opinions...so, we should just shut down the forums or have someone only pick certain opinions to post...maybe you could?

[Guest]

I was once too cool to give props to a relic like the King myself, but you can't deny something that changed music permanently. Elvis may have become a symbol of American excess and kitsch, but the early Sun sessions rock. The vibe of something new being created is amazing.

[fet]

EQ mag editors: how about an article detailing Sun Recording Studio circa 1954? Gear, studio dimensions, etc? A strange, evocative tone they created... you hear people copying it sometimes nowadays, but it's never the same. How about a "how-to" article re degrading/distorting modern digital recording parameters to achieve that elusive rockabilly thang...

[Guest]

In a few years (in the grand scheme of things) the neon lights will crackle and sizzle and go out, the rhinestones will stop their glittering, the Stutz Blackhawks will rust back into the dust from which they came, and Elvis will still be King.

 

Elvis Presley- a great singer, a wonderful voice.

 

I'm all shook up.

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by dadabobro@yahoo.com on 01-09-2001 at 11:27 AM

[Guest]

Never was a diehard fan but have to respect his impact and most of his music, although, it might be interesting to hash over that "movie making" period he went through over in the Artist Integrety thread http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

------------------

William F. Turner

Guitarist, Composer, Songwriter

[miroslav]

Originally posted by wfturner@csonline.net:

...it might be interesting to hash over that "movie making" period he went through over in the Artist Integrity thread.

 

Since you mention it, in the docu-drama I watched, Elvis said that after doing a few of the movies, all the scripts looked the same, and he and his buddies would laugh about it.

 

Seams he new there wasn't much "acting" going on, but he understood the marketing value of all those movies.

 

If COL Parker hadn't "found" him would he have been as big?

When he came back from his stint in the Army he was sure that his career was over, but again, marketing put him back on top, bigger than ever.

 

His entire career could be a study in marketing techniques, but yet the quality of his talent survived it and shone through.

 

Maybe you can market a "no talent" into stardom, but I don't think you can kill true talent with marketing...only exploit it more.

 

Elvis appeared to understand what it was all about, and he gave in to it, but I think, he still maintained his "artistic integrity" until the end.

He ALWAYS gave plenty to his fans and continues to do so.

[Max Ventura]

Miroslav, I couldn't care less because he had no impact on me whatsoever, in music or in anything. I don't see any impact on modern music as coming from Elvis, where is it exactly that you see this? I see no one shaking his hips or wearing funny costumes; no one sings today in that baritone style; additionally, he wasn't a musician but just a performer, singing other people's music & lyrics; he wasn't the innovator, but the spokeperson for some producers. He was good, and I liked him, but where exactly do you see his influence today, unless you live in Graceland County?

Max

[Tedster]

Argo...

 

His influence on Brit invasion bands (Beatles, etc.) influenced people like Ozzy, Deep Purple, Van Halen, who in turn influenced damn near all the metalheads today. So although you may say that it's not a direct influence, where would we be without it? That's like saying The Beatles have no relevance to today's music.

 

Additionally, the rockabilly-"Sun" sound had a profound impact on not only what would happen in the country camp, but also folks like Brian Setzer. He did play guitar. No virtuoso, but he could play.

 

Like I said, I'm not a big Elvis fan, but, I do appreciate his place in rock history.

[Guest]

Elvis definitely influenced Bryan Ferry, who has influenced many singers, as well as being instrumental in setting the stage for much modern music... if you trace the branches of the trees, you will find the family of Elvis a forest.

[miroslav]

..."I don't see any impact on modern music as coming from Elvis, where is it exactly that you see this"?...

 

Argomax, I think you are looking TOO hard. You can't just isolate and disconnect what is happening today in modern music from what has happened in the last 50 years.

 

Everything builds on what came before.

 

Maybe no one is singing like him, dressing like him, or shaking their hips, but he was the original rock & roll rebel. Before him, no one moved on stage that way or had that ATTITUDE.

 

He broke rock & roll, and everything else followed, up to today.

 

These days I listen to more world ethnic music than I do to 50s R&R.

I know you can put up some techno grooves or some ethereal "new age" music and say "What does this have to do with Elvis"? Maybe nothing.

 

But, Elvis is STILL selling records! How can that NOT have any impact...he has been DEAD for almost 30 years!

 

By the way, I do not live in Graceland country and have never even been there on any "Elvis tribute pilgrimage". I don't even remember the last time I consciously played an Elvis record or CD, but he is still the King.

 

PS

Read your post on the "new sound, non-guitar rock CD's". Do you know of any online outlets where they could be obtained or maybe even auditioned?

 

ALso, where did you go skiing and how were the conditions?

 

Ciao

 

 

 

 

 

 

This message has been edited by miroslav on 01-09-2001 at 01:59 PM

[Anderton]

>>Will any ONE person ever effect music more than Elvis did and have as much staying power in death as in life?<<

 

Bach did okay, so did Beethoven. Buddy Holly had a ton of influence...

 

I have mixed feelings about Elvis. His early stuff was phenomenal, one of the first white guys to embrace black music in a respectful way. He combined country and R&B in a way that was risque for the time. It's hard to believe, but back in those days, there were SEGREGATED WATER FOUNTAINS in the South, not just segregated schools, workplaces, etc. Elvis bridged that not in a social activist way, but because it made great music. Simple. Don't get me wrong; he wasn't a political hero or anything like that. He just made the first move.

 

A tune like "Mystery Train" still resonates after 40+ years (check out the movie of the same name about the Japanese tourists with an Elvis fetish, it's very cool). Sadly, his decline was rapid and total, and that's what most people remember. But for a few years, Elvis shook the world. He laid a foundation upon which much of what we enjoy today was built.

[Max Ventura]

But guys!!!

If you see so deep a presence of Elvis in today's music, just how deep do you see Les Paul presence? He basically invented electric guitar, without which we'd make no rock music at all! And since we're at it, how about the guy who invented microphone? And the guy who invented recording? I see THEIR presence much stronger in today's music that that of the Beatles of Elvis; and more than anything, the modern world owes the most to Alessandro Volta and Thomas Alva Edison and the other guys who developed electricity, won't you agree?

 

It is obvious that almost anybody who sold more than a million records (and even some of those who didn't sell that much) has had some kind of influence in today's music, whether we like it or not. Even Michael Jackson, whom I deeply despise, probably helped lay the foundation of modern rhythmics; and on and on... you can always go back & trace roots to something else, but I feel that's quite pointless.

Influences are felt AT MOST from the previous generation, after which, when the public has lost remembrance, they totally lack a connection. Let me rephrase it:

if an artist, by some means, develops a style that somewhat recalls elements taken from a RECENT previous artist or group, the public feels it, and that draws a lineage which makes sense. If, on the other hand, the style of this new artist recalls stuff made by somebody from a long time before, there is little collective memory about it, and in fact, who knows if those where direct influences or just coincidences of the Fate?

If I hear a modern metal singer using his voice in a manner recalling Elvis, I'll strongly doubt he's been influenced by him; I'll more likely believe he's just found his voice in a manner that is comfortable to him, just as Elvis did in his times.

[copacapripacbell.net]

Hello all,

 

Elvis I guess is a hero to most....

I guess the King will never really die here in America he lives on even today just look at Eminem. Not to say neither men are talented . Just like Elvis Eminem is now the biggest selling Rapper/Hip Hop artist ever. Eminem is up for 5 grammy awards??? If you like Hip hop or not there has got to be a reason why african american music can be enjoyed by many and loved by many and respected but maybe only to a degree. What i guess what puzzles me is how Pat Boone can still sing Tootie Fruitie and get all the praise. Please dont misunderstand what i am saying music is and always should be for every human on the planet to enjoy and embrace. It's one thing we all surely share. My commentary is more to the direction is beauty truly in the eye of the beholder? Yes Elvis did broaden the mainstream knowledge about this great music and dance i might add. Was he the originator of it ? No does it it matter he was not to simply enjoy it? No. For every Roy Hamilton ,Bessie Smith, Big Mama Thornton, Chuck Berry, Little Richard and so on. When do they get a kingdom?Now the same can be said for Rakim, Method man, Snoop Dog, Bahamadia,and Q-tip. Have not any of the latter mention artist deserved a significant Grammy nod. Or has there musical contribution like the past just been unoticed minus young suburbanite rebellion. Then come a long an artist who would seemingly be accecpted without the gyrations or now the profanity. But it sure gets you noticed and you may even become King.

 

Just my observation. Happy Birthday Elvis.

 

 

------------------

Cheers,

L7

Copa Capri Recorders

Hollyhood Productions

[Tedster]

The King is gone but not forgotten...

 

I thought the next line of the song was:

 

"This is the story of Johnny Rotten"...

 

The most recent singer that reminded me of Elvis, in a punk-esque way, was Billy Idol. And that's at least 15 years ago...

 

But, Argo, nobody's trying to change your mind. Different strokes for different folks...y'know...

[Guest]

>If COL Parker hadn't "found" him would he have been as big?<

 

Parker was a marketing genius. So much in fact that I often wonder if perhaps sometime in 1977 he didn't come to the conclusion that Elvis would be worth more to him dead than alive http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

Just one of those strange notions one gets in his mind after seeing how profitable he became to the good COL immediately following his death and through the last 24 or so years. Consider Elvis's physical stature in his last years, which was going to eventually make him quite unmarketable (unmarketable by definition of POP music's rule of God-like image). I've always had to scratch my head and wonder.

 

His musical accomplishments up to the time of

his death laid the boundaries of his kindom, but it was his death which made him the King.

Left alive, I have to wonder if he would have been nothing more than a fat old POP has been.

 

 

 

------------------

William F. Turner

Guitarist, Composer, Songwriter

[Max Ventura]

Ok, guys, here's another opinion of mine:

I think rock music was born with one album and one band in 1966, and that album is still a yardstick for rock vocals, rock guitar, performance standards and rebellion. That was after Elvis, and before the Beatles made Sgt. Pepper's and the Stones followed. The album, and the band, was The Doors.

 

Before that album, rock music was still in its infancy, and the most deep lyric there was mentioned broken hearts and stuff like that. Arrangements were stiff and the Beatles were still wearing their uniforms. There might have been some garage bands even before 1966 that did hard and deep music, but the Doors were capable of going into the mainstream, and you don't do that just because you're lucky, expecially in 1965.

So there you go, that's the only influence from an artist of yesteryear that I still see in today's music, from ambient noodlings to hardcore metal, the Doors inspired all that, and are still being namechecked by kids on the charts today. And the reason being, Jim Morrison onstage did the whole shit before even the word "punk" was invented, and on the records you still can hardly find performances this heartfelt and instinctive, both vocally and instrumentally. I dare anybody to deny that.

And Ted, it was Jim Morrison, not Elvis, whom Billy Idol tried to look like, as he himself said in 1991.

[miroslav]

Nice try Argomax, but no dice.

 

I'm not trying to turn you into an Elvis fan, and I LOVE the Doors, nothing bad to say about Jim Morrison, he too is missed and he too said a lot with his music and style.

 

But you are WAY off base to say that "rock music was born" with the Doors.

 

Rock & Roll was not even "born" with Elvis. He got HIS influences from the black blues players, as pointed out by the copacapri post above.

 

There was also Jerry Lee Lewis, who might have, and could have, been as big, maybe even bigger than Elvis, but he turned the public against him when he married his young cousin.

There were and are today many other musical innovators and BIG names. No argument there at all.

 

However, Elvis broke Rock & Roll into the mainstream of American AND world music.

 

You are entitled to believe that Elvis didn't have any kind of influence on you or rock as a whole.

But the general consensus, not just in the USA but the whole world, is and probably will be for a very long time that Elvis was and still is the King of Rock & Roll.

So let's end this tennis match, OK?

 

The King is dead, long live the King.

 

This message has been edited by miroslav on 01-10-2001 at 01:58 PM

[Tedster]

Fascinating, Captain...(raises one eyebrow)...

 

Although, the sneer was definitely Elvis, and the "bad-boy" look was more Elvis-esque to me at least. He may have been trying to look like Morrison, but, to me, he was a punk rock Elvis.

 

No one in their right mind would deny Morrison his due. Was it really '66? I remember the first Doors tune I heard was "Light My Fire". I was pretty young, but Manzarek's keyboard stuff fascinated me, almost like some psychotic Phantom of the Opera on acid. But, although Morrison was a rock star, wasn't he really wanting to do the poetry thing, and the rock and roll kinda fell into his lap?

 

And, kinda interesting, Morrison's stage antics got him arrested in Miami. Kinda like, in an earlier day and a tamer way, Elvis' gyrations got him in trouble.

[Tedster]

Oh yeah, and they're both Kings...one a Lizard King, and one King of Rock and Roll...

[David R.]

Yea, Elvis had a big impact, but I think Sam Phillips had a bigger impact on the world in general. His was just behind the scenes. He "discovered" Elvis, Carl Perkins, Jerry Lee Lewis, Roy Orbison, Johnny Cash, and so many others.

 

The Beatles had a revolutionary effect on music. The rules changed when they appeared.

 

Bach wrote the book on classical harmony.

 

The Doors were really good, but not that influential.

 

I actually had an audience with Sam Phillips, my band recorded at his new studio a few blocks from the old Sun location. We were joking with him, asking for the inside scoop if Elvis was really dead. His response - "Damn right he's dead. I carried the coffin, that boy was in there!"

 

-David R.

[dansouth]

Originally posted by argomax:

Ok, guys, here's another opinion of mine:

I think rock music was born with one album and one band in 1966, and that album is still a yardstick for rock vocals, rock guitar, performance standards and rebellion. That was after Elvis, and before the Beatles made Sgt. Pepper's and the Stones followed. The album, and the band, was The Doors.

 

Interesting argument, and I do see your point, but I'm not sure it was just the Doors. Weren't The Who, the Yardbirds, and others playing in '66, too? How about Cream? I think Townshend and co. had as much to with the "beginning" of rock as anyone. When Jimi came to London, he modeled his equipment after Pete's. Even so, the inception of rock in the 60's could not have occurred without the inception of rock 'n' roll in the 50's.

 

It's interesting to see how many of you have said "I'm not a big Elvis fan, but..." I guess I'm in the same boat. His act was revolutionary in many ways, and I agree as someone stated that he legitimized rock 'n' roll for the masses, esp. His biggest influence, however, may have been the overt sexuality of his stage presence. Before Elvis, crooners wore loose-fitting suits. The next time you see anyone, a performer or just someone at a dance club, wearing tight clothes and shaking their stuff, think about who started that. It wasn't Sinatra, Crosby, or Fred Astaire, and it wasn't Bill Haley, Jerry Lee Lewis or Fats Domino, either.

[Tedster]

Well, the stereotypical Elvis fan is a woman in her mid 50s, beehive hair, too much makeup, and living in a trailer park with her walls plastered with "Velvet Elvi"... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

But, you're right...bands like Mayall, Yardbirds, Cream, Hendrix, etc...all had profound impacts on music...

[Imperial]

The thing that blows me away is, that, Elvis had no clue what he was doing. He always wanted to sing gospel with JD Sumner and the Blackwood Brothers. He mimicked Big Cheif, a bass singer for the Statesmen. He just wanted to sing, and was scared crapless.

 

I have met Scotty Moore, at a show I was mixing in Nashville, and he was next to us at a guitar show booth. He said that they really didn't make any money back then. Elvis made a little money, but he really wan't that rich of a guy. What money he had, he gave alot away. He was a very giving person.

 

The only awards Elvis one were grammys for gospel albums with the Imperials and the Stamps. He basically took their existing arrangements and sang lead over them.

 

I am intrigued by Elvis and his ability to sing night after night beyond his vocal range, in sickness and in health.

 

If you ask the people around him, mainly JD Sumner, his best friend, you'll find Elvis was really singing to his band and himself, and the crowd was just along for the ride.

[Anderton]

>>If you see so deep a presence of Elvis in today's music, just how deep do you see Les Paul presence? He basically invented electric guitar, without which we'd make no rock music at all! And since we're at it, how about the guy who invented microphone? And the guy who invented recording?<<

 

They don't influence CULTURE. I mean, you can take it to an extreme and say that the automobile had a huge influence on music, because people could drive to record stores and concerts. Influencing the production of music and the content of music are two different things.

 

About the Doors: they did cause a breakthrough, but I'd go with the Who as being pretty radical for their time. But if you really want something to chomp on, what about Screamin' Jay Hawkins? Little Richard? Who can deny the overt sexuality - their entire thing was frightening to the establishment - these guys were dangerous way before the Doors.

[Anderton]

One more Doors thought...

 

I had mentioned that Elvis started off with a great album, then rapidly went downhill. To my taste, the best Doors album was the first, it was downhill from there. Like Elvis, Morrison became a big-time druggie, got fat and bloated, became a parody of what he had been, and died from excess. Sad.