Curve Dominant Posted January 3, 2001 Share Posted January 3, 2001 Alex Ross, the music critic for The New Yorker, wrote an excellent article in this week's (Jan. 8) issue entitled "The Harmonist: John Adams takes the agony out of modern music." Here's an excerpt: "It is a strange business, composing music in twenty-first-century America. The job is difficult in itself: it is slow, solitary, and intensely cerebral. You have to believe deeply in yourself to get through the process. You have to be possibly a little mad." ©2001, The New Yorker. Any composers out there? How would you describe it? Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman forgot his cape Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Originally posted by Curve Dominant: Alex Ross, the music critic for The New Yorker, wrote an excellent article in this week's (Jan. 8) issue entitled "The Harmonist: John Adams takes the agony out of modern music." Here's an excerpt: "It is a strange business, composing music in twenty-first-century America. The job is difficult in itself: it is slow, solitary, and intensely cerebral. You have to believe deeply in yourself to get through the process. You have to be possibly a little mad." ©2001, The New Yorker. Any composers out there? How would you describe it? Curve, mein leibling... It hass always been ze same, ya? Ich habt ze zame feeling, sitting at mein forte-piano im mein lonely zimmer am Bonn-am-Rhien, in ze early 19 century...... Fortunately...I am now...dead..and no longer have to worry about such things......ha ha !! Ludwig Van Beethoven P.S. watch out for encraoching deafness!! P.P.S. vat iss diss "New Yorker" that you mention?..is it der same ass der "New Amsterdamer"?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Originally posted by Curve Dominant: Alex Ross, the music critic for The New Yorker, wrote an excellent article in this week's (Jan. 8) issue entitled "The Harmonist: John Adams takes the agony out of modern music." Here's an excerpt: "It is a strange business, composing music in twenty-first-century America. The job is difficult in itself: it is slow, solitary, and intensely cerebral. You have to believe deeply in yourself to get through the process. You have to be possibly a little mad." ©2001, The New Yorker. Any composers out there? How would you describe it? Excellent description. Sounds remarkably familiar to my own (countless) hours in front of a Macintosh. And there's no "possibly" about it. You have to be completely insane. If you don't lose track of day and night at least once a month, better trade in your synthesizers and take up gardening. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 "it is slow, solitary, and intensely cerebral" How ironic. Sounds like the complete opposite of a number of pop hits I have heard described. Slow? "well the song came to us one morning" Solitary? "we were jamming together and john found this riff." Cerebral? "we captured it on DAT and then we did some overdubs." Is composition (the art of wrestling with form and thematic development) relevant in our society today? Cheers, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 Yo Jerricurl. It's The New Yorker, not Bumfuck, Texas. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 No offense. This message has been edited by Curve Dominant on 01-04-2001 at 12:56 AM Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinopop Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Curve, You're mistaken, Bumfuck is in Oklahoma. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif - Layne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anderton Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 >>Is composition (the art of wrestling with form and thematic development) relevant in our society today?<< Seems that form and thematic development are still pretty necessary components in soundtracks. But the kind of composition you're talking about...well, you'd think with everyone being able to have such kickass compositional tools at their disposal, we'd see a renaissance of Zappa-type folks. Doesn't seem to be happening, though. Craig Anderton Educational site: http://www.craiganderton.org Music: http://www.youtube.com/thecraiganderton Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/craig_anderton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 4, 2001 Author Share Posted January 4, 2001 >>Seems that form and thematic development are still pretty necessary components in soundtracks.<< And always will be. But the forms and thematic developements will change for every new application. The length of the piece is a major influence over how its form is emphasized. A 30 second piece will demand an intense burst of groove. A 30 minute piece will need to start from a more subtle place and then develop slowly. THAT SOUNZ A LITTLE TOO F*CKING ACADEMIC... You never know what yer getting into when you agree to compose a soundtrack, and that's the beauty of it. THAT SOUNZ A LITTLE TOO F*CKING PHILOSOPHICAL... Throw down some grooves, and GET PAID!!! THAT'S A LITTLE MORE LIKE IT!!! This message has been edited by Curve Dominant on 01-04-2001 at 02:42 AM Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlahib.no Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Excellent description. Sounds remarkably familiar to my own (countless) hours in front of a Macintosh. And there's no "possibly" about it. You have to be completely insane. If you don't lose track of day and night at least once a month, better trade in your synthesizers and take up gardening. Gardeners are more insane than composers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Originally posted by jla@hib.no: Gardeners are more insane than composers. You may be right, but they tend to work in the daylight. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sintz_productionshotmail. Posted January 4, 2001 Share Posted January 4, 2001 Any composers out there? How would you describe it? I find myself using headphones and finding the exact location that the sound from the notes is going to fall in my cerebral area. Then I try to keep other instruments out of that area as I write them in so each one is in a different spot. Mad? Who knows? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 >> ...well, you'd think with everyone being able to have such kickass compositional tools at their disposal, we'd see a renaissance of Zappa-type folks. Doesn't seem to be happening, though. Zappa had a certain flair for marketing his stuff and getting it played. There may be unknown Zappa-oids out there somewhere. Besides, is composition synonymous with Frank Zappa? Perhaps there are modern Verdi's and Schumann's and Stravinski's out there. In addition to rock and pop songs, I write Baroque music. Is there a market for it? Don't know and don't care. I write it for my own enjoyment. Besides, unlike most of what I write, my parents can enjoy it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif >> Is composition (the art of wrestling with form and thematic development) relevant in our society today? It is if you find enjoyment in the results. This is like asking whether architecture is important. We have perfectly servicible designs for houses, factories, office buildings, stores, and train stations. Is it necessary to design new ones? (rhetorical question) For that matter, we have recordings of lots of good songs. Do we really need any more? (somewhat facetious rhetorical question) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sintz_productionshotmail. Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 Hmmm, actually Frank had his own ideas about composers.... A composer is a guy who goes around forcing his will on unsuspecting air molecules,often with the assistance of unsuspecting musicians. --- Why do people continue to compose music, and even pretend to teach others how to do it, when they already know the answer? Nobody gives a fuck. --- The people of your century no longer require the service of composers. A composer is as useful to a person in a jogging suit as a dinosaur turd in the middle of his runway. ~Frank Zappa~ TC http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif This message has been edited by SINTZ on 01-04-2001 at 07:39 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 5, 2001 Author Share Posted January 5, 2001 Zappa was venting - as he often did. Talented composer, though. >>Dansouth posts: "In addition to rock and pop songs, I write Baroque music."<< I'm kind of in the same boat. I alternate between an urban-contemporary project, and recording long instrumental pieces for modern dance performances. It's great, I luv it, and I think composing serious music will never disappear. On the contrary - I'm seeing a resurgence of interest in orchestral music by inner-city youth. Of course, my orchestral music tends to the avante garde and includes elements of funk, jazz, world, and even hip hop, so that might explain that. But I think some of the skepticism I see on this thread is based on the stereotype of an old white guy with a pen and a sheet of staffs, trying to one up the old dead guys from Europe. Look at Rza from Wu Tang: he composed the soundtrack to the film "Ghost Dog," and it's brilliant, it totally makes that film come alive. Composing irrelevant? In Texas, perhaps. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 5, 2001 Share Posted January 5, 2001 SINTZ: Loved the Zappa quotes! What a brilliant mind! Curve: Great to hear that the orchestral stuff is going over with the kids. Would love to hear more details. (email me if you like) In addition to the Jerry Goldsmiths and John Williams of the world, today's composers include Danny Elfman, a rock/pop musician, Randy Newman, a pop musician, and Mark Isham, who has an ecclectic background including both Jazz and symphony work at a trumpeter. Two of the best composers of the 20th C. were Monk and Ellington, hardly "old white guys" writing starchy arrangements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 6, 2001 Author Share Posted January 6, 2001 Mark Isham is FANTASTIC! BRILLIANT! Also check out Sakamoto (big influence on me), Maurice Jarre, John Barry, Brian Eno, Holger Czuckay, Relache, and Joshua Redman (whose latest, "Beyond," is masterful). Yo Dan, I got a new piece in the works, and when it's done & mastered, I'm gonna press a compilation CD of the latest three pieces I've done for the modern dance company in Philly I compose for. I'll put you on the list for one of those. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulferpacific.net.sg Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 "It is a strange business, composing music in twenty-first-century America. The job is difficult in itself: it is slow, solitary, and intensely cerebral. You have to believe deeply in yourself to get through the process. You have to be possibly a little mad." "It's a strange business" - and fun, and vital. "The job is difficult in itself" - sometimes, sometimes not. Sometimes the music just rises up out of the place music comes from, like a gift. "Slow" - see above "Solitary" - in my case, yes, but people do collaborate usefully sometimes. "Intensely cerebral" - yeah, sometimes, but don't forget the emotion and the physicality of the music, or it just gets boring. Cerebral is a boring word. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif "You have to believe deeply in yourself" - sure, but nothing special about that. "You have to be possibly a little mad" - okay, but who isn't? In other words, I don't think the writer said much that was particularly descriptive about writing music. Can I do any better? Dunno, but I'll have a go. Writing music well is about imagination, standards and filters. You need an idea that's important to you, one your intelligence and feelings can get involved in. You need a high standard - "I'm going to come up with something that I haven't done before." You need a filter - "If it isn't new or creative, I'm not going to keep it." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulferpacific.net.sg Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 double post This message has been edited by paulfer@pacific.net.sg on 01-05-2001 at 10:55 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 a band im mixing now does 6-10 minute songs, does that count as composition? definately not a pop song. im only going to be able to fit 4 songs on the 12". were going to have to release a double album just to get almost a cd's worth. pay me no mind. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 6, 2001 Author Share Posted January 6, 2001 >>the music just rises up out of the place music comes from, like a gift.<< You go boy... >>don't forget the emotion and the physicality of the music<< YEAH BABY!!! >>a band im mixing now does 6-10 minute songs, does that count as composition?<< YEAH BABY!!!! Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alndln Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Dan South said something about losing track of day and night.What is this "Daytime" you refer to. "A Robot Playing Trumpet Blows" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 "Composing irrelevant? In Texas, perhaps." Composing is meaningful. No question. Stipulated. I spend too much energy on composing to diss it. Composing's meaning can be measured in the examples you cite. Inner city kids being turned on to orchestrated music. More power to you, Curve. But composing's relevance is a broader question. Let's step back from the few healthy trees and survey the dismal condition of the forest. More and more music buyers are buying less and less composed music as we enter this century. Aided and abetted by concentrations of music-industry power in NYC, Los Angeles and Nashville. Do you have any witticisms for those towns or those states? Or is that too close to home? The problem is global and it is real. No offense. Jerry This message has been edited by Jerry Aiyathurai on 01-06-2001 at 09:25 AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Sometimes you need to disclose your perspective. Please bear with me. I write music. I also compose music. My current pre-occupation is in creating a synthesis of a sri lankan rhythmic form, called baila (a swung and pulled 6/8), with some of the western (portugese) and arabic "roots" which influenced Sri Lanka heavily. Sort of tracing an ethno-musical history to make sense of where we are. This involves research and conjecture. These pieces are more than 10 minutes long, and have problems of form inherent to them which need to be solved. I am a fellow-sufferer. Cheers, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Originally posted by alphajerk: a band im mixing now does 6-10 minute songs, does that count as composition? I think composition can be anything from free improvisation (real time composition) to planning every note and inflection in advance. Mozart is composition; so is a Dead jam and everything in the middle. In the final analysis, a garage band jamming on an original riff is composing. The only variable is in the degree of planning vs. in-the-moment flexibility. I don't know where your songs lie on that continuum, but they are certainly "compositions," regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 6, 2001 Share Posted January 6, 2001 Originally posted by Curve Dominant: Mark Isham is FANTASTIC! BRILLIANT! Yeah, between 'A River Runs Through It' and 'Romeo Is Bleeding', I started to catch on that this guy has something very special going on. Yo Dan, I got a new piece in the works, and when it's done & mastered, I'm gonna press a compilation CD of the latest three pieces I've done for the modern dance company in Philly I compose for. I'll put you on the list for one of those. I'm honored, Curve. Perhaps I can return the favor with a concerto or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 7, 2001 Author Share Posted January 7, 2001 >>My current pre-occupation is in creating a synthesis of a sri lankan rhythmic form, called baila<< BAILA, MI HERMANA! BAILA PARA MI! >>Yeah, between 'A River Runs Through It' and 'Romeo Is Bleeding', I started to catch on that this guy has something very special going on.<< "Romeo Is Bleeding" - I LUV THAT FILM. Isham's sound gave that grotesque story a haunting romanticism. >>I'm honored, Curve. Perhaps I can return the favor with a concerto or two.<< Que nada, amigo. I luv Baroque, so lay it on me baby. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansouth Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 >> BAILA, MI HERMANA! BAILA PARA MI! Santana - Amigos - Dance Sister Dance. I wore the grooves out on that record, especially 'Europa'. Man, I love that cut! Tom Coster and his army of Arps - no wonder I like synthesizers so much!! >> "Romeo Is Bleeding" - I LUV THAT FILM. Isham's sound gave that grotesque story a haunting romanticism. To this day, it's the only film that makes me cry. I don't even know why, but I think it's something in that music. Haunting is the perfect word to describe it. It changed forever the way I perceive a soundtrack. Then again, maybe I'm just have a super-duper crush on Lena Olin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted January 8, 2001 Author Share Posted January 8, 2001 Lena Olin is HOT!!! Yo Danno - make sure you see "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" while it is still in the theaters. The film is a classic, and the soundtrack is the most impressive I've heard since Sakamoto's for "The Last Emperor." Yo Yo Ma plays all the cello solos. See and hear it in the theater - video will not do this film judgement, unless you have one of those de-lux home entertainment chumpys that us poor city-folk can't afford. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 8, 2001 Share Posted January 8, 2001 - most impressive I've heard since Sakamoto's for "The Last Emperor." I thought that was brilliant too (movie and score). If you guys keep going, you will use up my 2001 listening budget. (keep going!) Anyone got a Zappa recommendation? I've only heard one album by him. It was very clever. I hear there's a lot of variability in his work, though. Cheers, Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.