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ARE HOME STUDIOS BAD FOR MUSIC?


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Here's a topic I'd like to have your opinions on:

 

Are studio operators (and home / project studio users in particular) becoming too "solitary"? I mean, technology has advanced to the point where one person can do almost anything and everything by themselves, but is that a good thing?

 

Isn't it the interaction and convergence of multiple opinions part of what makes great music so special?

 

Isn't it too easy to lose your objectivity when doing it all yourself? Writing, playing, programming, engineering, producing - that's a LOT of "hats" to wear at once.

 

Does the music suffer, or does all this technology just allow us to have our own musical vision realized without having to deal with those "messy" personal interactions?

 

If not, what methods do YOU use to keep things fresh and in perspective? How do you stay objective when you're involved in each and every aspect of the process?

 

I'd love to hear what everyone thinks.

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

email: pokeefe777@msn.com

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Phil,

I agree when you say that solitary producers can lose their objectivity. I am one of them, and I always seek opinions and impressions from passers-by thru my studio. I particularly prefer to hear from people totally ignorant of music techniques.

I have a lot of friends/colleagues who do not seek advice, and don't appreciate it. I always think they are on a wrong track. If I was in the record company's chair, I'd assign them a senior producer to herd them thru a proper production route.

 

But is it bad for music? The point is moot, because music isn't really an establishment, music is whatever one feels it to be; even bad, tasteless or badly produced music is Music, nevertheless.

Unfortunately.

Max Ventura, Italy.
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one could also argue that it maintains the purity of their vision. i have heard recordings done exculsively by the artist that simply blows me away.

 

and it all depends on what type of music they are doing and what the individual artist is after.

alphajerk

FATcompilation

"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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I, for one, can say that my situation has been fantastic since I built my own project studio. I believe that it is great to have different perspectives from different musicians on many of my projects. When I built my studio it started a "snowball effect" (not a plug-in) with my other musician friends. Now, 3 of my friends have ProTools/Digi001 setups like mine! We swap backups and put in our 2 cents worth for each project, including mixes and editing.

 

When a project is about done, we all get together and clean everything up.

 

The project studio has opened up a whole new way of collaboration with me.

 

Just my thoughts.

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Phil, this is s great topic and one that is near and dear to me, because I'm always harping on this very thing myself. I DO think music suffers from the lack of collaboration. I find that a lot of people's musical visions become too fragmented if you will, to the point where they're actually not capable of cooperating with other people. Especially these days with home studios, sequencers, drum machines, etc., it's very easy to trick yourself into thinking you don't need anybody. And I suppose, if you think you don't, you don't - it's your bag. But whether anyone else will be moved by it or whether your music will ever be everything it could be given the input of other people, is highly questionable.

 

Some people also think it's OK to work up demos where they play everything themselves to demonstrate the arrangement they're hearing, then let other musicians start from there. Sometimes this does work, but I've also seen a lot of cases where either the composer or the musicians get too attached to the demo arrangement and don't come up with the most creative part they could.

 

Very few people's solitary "vision" is really the best thing for a piece of music in my opinion; many more people seem to THINK it is, when it's really just a lot of ego stroking. I would rather work up a song arrangement while staring at the other musicians' eyeballs, personally. I also deliberately set up my home studio in a big room, without a separate control room, so that everything in the room invites people to sit down and collaborate on ideas.

 

'Course now my only problem is that it's sometimes hard to get people to drop by the studio because everyone else is in their own home studios... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ... but musicians are social creatures and they eventually seem to come out of hiding!

 

I think awareness is half the battle - it's easy to get sucked into your own little world unless you make a conscious effort to remember that music is basically a collaborative art. I have friends whose projects I play on or engineer or produce in exchange for me doing the same for them. We pool our gear too, which benefits everyone. It can be done if you remain conscious about it.

 

--Lee

 

 

This message has been edited by Lee Flier on 12-19-2000 at 10:05 AM

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It's 50/50.

 

Soooooo nice not having to do that "democratic/politically correct" crap with any other musicians/engineers/producers on how best to "record the lead guitar or vocal...etc.

 

But it also sucks not having any other musicians/engineers/producers to bounce ideas off of on how best to "record the lead guitar or vocal...etc.

Can you say "tunnel vision"!

 

I guess if you do "work alone" on everything, then it is probably wise to at least play it back for some un-biased listeners just to get some objective and subjective opinions.

Then, you can ignore everything they say, or maybe, you just might get some good and helpful suggestions/opinions.

 

Yes, much of the time, "too many cooks spoil the soup", and it IS hard to maintain that "purity of vision" as alphajerk stated.

 

But, for all the times I have enjoyed the liberation of working on something totally alone, I also have been trapped by it on occasion.

 

Maybe a really good solution is to hook up with one or two other people that also have a similar vision, and then you have the best of both worlds.

 

But, isn't that how great bands are formed anyway?

 

For all the times I wanted to "get away" from the ideas of other people, I find that lately, I would prefer to work with, rather than without.

 

"No man is an island"

 

Who said that?

 

Miroslav

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Though an impossible request, I'd love beable to take today's technology, go back and give it to the Bach's, Mozarts and Beethovens of the past and see if they would have create as solid and timeless works as they did without it.

 

By necessity, the only way their ideas got off a piece of paper was by interaction with other people. But if it wasn't a blatant reality, would it have been their choice.

 

I work completely alone, but try to keep a perspective that what I accomplish is merely a model of what it might be with outside interaction.

 

I'm pretty rural, and the main reason for working alone is mainly lack of callaboration resources.

 

------------------

William F. Turner

Guitarist, Composer, Songwriter

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Originally posted by wfturner@csonline.net:

...I'm pretty rural, and the main reason for working alone is mainly lack of callaboration resources.

 

Get a cat!!!

 

If it likes sitting on top of your monitor/mixer bridge during a tracking/mixing session, and it puuurrrs on playback...you are on the money!

 

But if it leaves, or just never even wants to come in...then...

 

I have heard of other "studio pets" that behave in this fasion, and hell if we can't hear beyond 22KHz, they can.

 

I've never kept track of which music/songs/takes/mixes my cat liked or disliked, but there was an effect, and this has happend with different cats over the years, so they must be hearing/saying something???

miroslav - miroslavmusic.com

 

"Just because it happened to you, it doesn't mean it's important."

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Heheh... good thinking Miroslav... one of my cats likes to sit on my lap when I'm working (she's sitting here right now in fact) and I can definitely tell if she doesn't like a mix! My dog gives me that kind of feedback too!

 

William, I think you're right on the money with your take on Beethoven, Mozart et al with today's technology. It's fascinating to speculate...KNOWING you have to rely on other people puts you in a very different mindset than feeling you COULD do without them and so you don't have to commit too much.

 

--Lee

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A lot of big-time examples of this one. Even though they're not always "solo projects" in the true sense of the word, a lot of reaaaally famous musicians falter when they do solo projects, or at least the quality suffers, as they're indulging their own ego.

 

To my mind, the classic examples were The Beatles after they broke up. Lennon got too angry, (despite "Imagine"), McCartney got too mushy. The checks and balances were gone. It worked for Harrison, who finally was out from underneath the other two's thumbs, at least for an album or two. But even then, it seemed like everything of his had the trademark slide solo on it.

 

Collaboration really offers new insights. But, I think the original author of the tune should have say as to whether an idea goes in or not. I mean, collaboration just for the sake of collaboration isn't necessarily good either.

 

I'd rather do rough demos in my home studio, complete in most senses, and take them to someone who knows their shit and can offer helpful bits as well as turn a rough rock into a polished diamond. Or limestone, in my case.

"Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine"
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I have a totally different take on the whole question.

I do see the collaborations issues, etc...but:

 

In my opinion, home studios are nothing BUT good for music. It is about the power being in the hands of the artist/artists.

No control issues with whomever financed the music project (major labels, etc...).

In the old days, if you fit a certain mold or criteria, you just may have gotten a chance to create your musical vision. Today, the power is back in the hands of the artist. Yes, this will result in more musical output, over the whole spectrum (a lot of which sucks), but at least every artist/s has/have equal opportunity to share their vision with

the world.

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People are capable of making great music or lousy music in isolation, or in collaboration with other people.

 

I do most of my work alone in the studio. But I also collaborate a lot. Whenever I go over to Europe and gig with Rei$$dorf Force, my music ends up being better even when I'm working by myself, because of the inspiration factor.

 

I also have a producer friend who lives out in California with whom I constantly interact. He's a very tough critic and is a good reality check. I'll send him my stuff, and he'll often give advice that causes me to change the overall direction.

 

I would love to be able to interact more with people, but it's hard to find collaborators where I live. So I make do with what I've got...

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Dr Destructo said:

 

>>In my opinion, home studios are nothing BUT good for music. It is about the power being in the hands of the artist/artists.

No control issues with whomever financed the music project (major labels, etc...).<<

 

A VERY good argument in favor of the home studio revolution, but the argument could be made that your point applies equally to bands (collaborative by their very nature) as well as solo artists / individuals.

 

>>In the old days, if you fit a certain mold or criteria, you just may have gotten a chance to create your musical vision. Today, the power is back in the hands of the artist. Yes, this will result in more musical output, over the whole spectrum (a lot of which sucks), but at least every artist/s has/have equal opportunity to share their vision with

the world.<<

 

Well, the power is PARTIALLY back in the hands of the artists, which I believe is a good thing. The high tech tools give artists the opportuniity, or the tools, if you will, to produce material that passes the acceptable technical quality standards that the public will accept. However, the public doesn't know a bit from a domain (tape domains / magnetic particles on tape) and doesn't care about how it was recorded or what tools were used. I believe that's why the SONG and performance are still the most important elements.

 

But I'm getting off the subject. As far as the power being "partially" back in the artist's hands, I'm trying to say that they / we will not have complete control as long as the "majors" (labels) have a stranglehold on the distribution methods and marketing. I think when a viable and universally accepted alternative method for music distribution and marketing is available to the individual artist, as well as a means to get paid for their work, then things will really change. The internet has the potential to become that, but when most people are still poking along at 56K, download times (even with MP3) make it more hassle than it's worth for many folks. We need more bandwidth!

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Craig Anderton said:

 

>>I would love to be able to interact more with people, but it's hard to find collaborators where I live. So I make do with what I've got...<<

 

I think as Internet bandwidth increases we'll start to see people able to collaborate on-line a lot more effectively than they can now, although there are some interesting ways already available, such as the Rocket network stuff and on line studios.

 

I send out rough MIDI files to keyboard players to have them play parts or work on arrangements. Same thing with ADAT tapes, and now I even have a client who just moved to Columbus GA who picked up an AW4416, so I'll be sending CD-RW's to him and he'll be sending me his tracks to mix.

 

I have clients and collaborators all over North America - Canada, Mexico and several areas of the USA, and while they frequently fly out here for things, oftentimes FedEx is a huge part of how we work. It's still preferable to have that instant interaction though - ideas fly a lot faster that way.

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I have done albums where I have played just about every instrument on them, but boy, is THAT ever a lot of work! I'm glad I have the tools that will allow me to accomplish that, but I find that I personally still enjoy having the interaction of other people who's abilities and judgement I respect.

 

I just wanted to say a BIG "THANK YOU" to everyone for posting your opinions on this. EVERY post has been very good (and I'm STILL waiting to see if it's snowing yet in Lee's neck of the woods http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif )

 

Thanks everyone!

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

email: pokeefe777@msn.com

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Speaking for myself, I have been so much more creative and productive having a home studio than before. I don't think that it necessarily creates tunnel vision in the artist unless you let it (these folks probably have control issues anyway). Of course, there are times when having a session with the band is wonderful; everyone is in the groove and the interaction creates the magic. Other times it is like pulling teeth, and you just want them to get the funk out of the place! Overall, I just love to be able to lose myself in the experience of creating and not having to answer to anyone. From the feedback I get, the results do not seem to suffer at all!

 

Later,

 

Richt

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One other thought:

 

Just because you have a credit card with a high limit and can go buy a truckload of the latest technology, you still have to make a considerable investment in TIME and EFFORT in order to learn how to get the most out of the equipment at hand. I can give my daughter my '62 Strat, but that's not going to turn her into Eric Clapton overnight.

 

Time is probably the most precious of commodities. We all have an (unknown) finite amount of it. Some would rather invest that time and effort into improving their craft, be it their instrumental skill, songwriting chops, etc.

 

I spent many years learning how to play various instruments at a certain level of expertise, and many more on my recording and production chops. I got into engineering by accident, and later returned to school for a degree in it.

 

I didn't always like the results I was getting from commercial studios / engineers, so I started to educate myself and purchase equipment so that I could do demos myself and eventually was asked to produce projects for other artists. I found that I really enjoyed the marriage of art and science that is intrinsic to production and engineering. All of that eventually led to working for and with record labels (which I might not have had the opportunity to do otherwise, the field being as competitive as it is).

 

When MIDI arrived, it allowed me to do things that had been previously impossible, such as arranging (and instantly hearing) string and brass sections, but even though I try to approach my sequencing from the perspective of a "real player" of the particular instrument, it never seems to be "quite" as good as the real thing. Ever hear a convincing MIDI sax solo?

 

I believe that it's difficult to be a Renaissance person and be a master of everything. Sometimes I'm surprised, but decisions usually have to be made regarding where you want to make the time and effort investments.

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riiverside CA http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

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Originally posted by pokeefe777@msn.com:

Are studio operators (and home / project studio users in particular) becoming too "solitary"? I mean, technology has advanced to the point where one person can do almost anything and everything by themselves, but is that a good thing?

 

Are novelists "too solitary?" How about painters of playwrights? Do you think that Dickens had to go down to the pub and bounce lines off of drunkards in order to come up with realistic dialog? Did Shakespeare have iambic pentameter rap sessions with Marlowe? Did Van Gogh swap palettes with Monet and Degas in order to keep a fresh paint groove going?

 

If you have vision, and if you can evaluate your work honestly, then there's no danger in working in isolation. The upside is that you won't be distracted by arguments, hurt feelings, and off the wall ideas that miss the point entirely. Two can go down an unproductive path as easily as one and much more quickly.

 

Of course, it helps to run your work past objective critics before releasing a final version. Take dance tracks to a party and guage the reaction. Have someone else mix or master a track. Swap tapes with other engineers/producers/songwriters and LISTEN to their comments. Offer genuine, positive feedback to them in return. Bring in guest artists to play parts or styles according to their own specialties.

 

Some people work well with collaborators. Some don't. Know who you are, and be true to your art and the direction that it demands. Don't corrupt a song by having your buddies play on a track just because they always do. Just because your vocalist friend came up with some nice lyrics on past projects doesn't mean he/she is going to have anything to offer on this one.

 

Deaf, sickly, old Herr Beethoven did not have the opportunity to collaborate on the Ninth Symphony, and the tune turned out okay. On the other hand, I'll bet you can go into a record store and find thousands of CRAPPY, SUCKY tracks that were produced by a room full of professional musicians, engineers, and arrangers.

 

To thine own self be true.

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Hey guys!

 

Yes, it's snowing in Atlanta. I just got back from picking up my mom at the airport, who's visiting from California, and drove home with the snow flying. I woke up this morning to about 3 inches on the ground. It gets interesting here when it snows - nobody knows how to drive, that's for sure!

 

About whether novelists and painters collaborate, well, it doesn't really apply because writing and painting never HAVE been collaborative arts. Composition of music is often solitary, and sometimes arranging (depending on the style of music), but most music benefits from collaboration on the performance side, and often the arrangements too. Even composition, at least in non-classical music seems to be done better by teams (although there are tons of exceptions of course).

 

Sure, lots of great music is made by solo artists and lots of crappy music is made by collaborative effort. But I think that kinda misses the point - the point is that there are a lot of people out there now with home studios whose work is probably suffering from lack of community and they may not be aware of it. It's just a caveat is all.

 

And dr destructo, I agree that for the most part, the home project studio is a good thing in that we CAN do what we want without being beholden to financial interests. That's all great. It doesn't mean there are NO drawbacks or potential drawbacks which can't be discussed.

 

--Lee

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Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Sure, lots of great music is made by solo artists and lots of crappy music is made by collaborative effort. But I think that kinda misses the point - the point is that there are a lot of people out there now with home studios whose work is probably suffering from lack of community and they may not be aware of it. It's just a caveat is all.

 

And dr destructo, I agree that for the most part, the home project studio is a good thing in that we CAN do what we want without being beholden to financial interests. That's all great. It doesn't mean there are NO drawbacks or potential drawbacks which can't be discussed.

 

But isn't there a middle ground between these two paragraphs? Now that quality, multi-track home studios are a reality - as opposed to the 4-track studio that most musicians could afford in the 70's/80's - we actually have MORE opportunities to collaborate than ever before. Add in internet file transmission, and you can collaborate with people around the world.

 

As I stated earlier, collaboration is a matter of personal style and taste. Some people do their best work in a team environment. Some do work best alone. Home studios help both groups. But it's important to know where you fit in, and under what circumstances.

 

If I'm writing a country tune, I might want to work with a pedal steel player, because there's no way to get that sound on a synthesizer. But if I'm composing a concerto, I need to compose the whole piece and transcribe all of the parts before I hire a chamber orchestra. (Classical players lose respect when you ask them to jam.)

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its not that classical players lose respect, they get scared. they cant jam for shit, its called freethinking and something they arent capable of. on the other hand, somebody who knows how to jam usually cant read music for shit, its called discipline and something they arent capable of. then you got people in the middle who cant read that great and cant jam that great but possess their own talents somewhere in there.

alphajerk

FATcompilation

"if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson

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>>Ever hear a convincing MIDI sax solo?<<

 

No, but...what I do is just change the timbre to something that doesn't sound like a sax. Then people judge the solo based on the notes, not on whether it sounds like a sax!

 

BTW this was a great idea for a thread. It's something I think about, and the bottom line for me is this: I am so glad I have a studio and can realize whatever my musical dreams might be. But I also like dreams that involve other people.

 

The best thing about a home studio to me is not having to book time. It's the 24/7 that I love more than anything else.

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Originally posted by dansouth@yahoo.com:

But isn't there a middle ground between these two paragraphs? Now that quality, multi-track home studios are a reality - as opposed to the 4-track studio that most musicians could afford in the 70's/80's - we actually have MORE opportunities to collaborate than ever before. Add in internet file transmission, and you can collaborate with people around the world.

 

Absolutely! I feel great about my little Yamaha setup because now I can take it all over the place and record friends of mine in different cities who would otherwise never get to play "together". It certainly CAN be used as a tool for more collaboration!

 

--Lee

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The analogy with painting and novel-writing is apt. If you know what you're doing, working alone is probably much better than working with others. (There have been a few successful collaborative writing teams, but not many. I'm not aware of any successful painting collaborations. It's known that many of the Renaissance masters let their apprentices do some of the work, but that's not collaboration.)

 

The issue in home studio recording, in my opinion, is that many of the people who are working in this manner have *never* played in bands, or in front of audiences. As a result, they have, all too often, fairly rudimentary ideas about what works and what doesn't. There's no substitute for standing up in front of an audience when it comes to confronting, or being confronted by, your own bullshit.

 

Even after Beethoven went deaf, he could draw on a lifetime of experience. He could compose at home effectively because he had played many concerts himself and had heard many orchestrated works performed by large ensembles. He knew what worked.

 

In the case of art forms that are essentially collaborative and spontaneous, such as jazz improvisation, it's very questionable whether a solo artist working in a home studio can get the same results. But then, not many are trying to. Conversely, there are musical genres such as academic computer music that are largely non-performable, so the question of isolation vs. feedback from an audience and peers doesn't arise directly.

 

Even computer music composers presumably get feedback, though, if only from their professors and fellow grad students. No man is an island. (He's a peninsula.)

 

Extra points if you can identify the source of the preceding parenthetical comment.

 

--Jim Aikin

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>>Ever hear a convincing MIDI sax solo?<<

 

 

>>>>No, but...what I do is just change the timbre to something that doesn't sound like a sax. Then people judge the solo based on the notes, not on whether it sounds like a sax!<<<<

 

Arc of a Diver by Steve Winwood had songs that did that, and used an obvoius synth sounding "sax" in a very musical and soulful way.

 

>>>>BTW this was a great idea for a thread. It's something I think about, and the bottom line for me is this: I am so glad I have a studio and can realize whatever my musical dreams might be. But I also like dreams that involve other people.<<<<

 

Both areas and all points in between have their beneficiaries and adherents to that viewpoint, and some of us believe that there is value in the arguments from each side of the discussion. I too, am very glad that I have technology at hand that FAR surpasses that available to world renown artists when some of my favorite tracks from yesteryear were cut. Now there's no valid reason for my productions not measuring up, except my own personal limitations, which are my responsibility to face and deal with! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

 

>>>>The best thing about a home studio to me is not having to book time. It's the 24/7 that I love more than anything else.<<<<

 

Our studio was in a commercial building until three years ago when the building owner decided not to renew our lease in favor of putting in a Gold's Gym. We bought a house on a large piece of property and converted the large barn into a fairly nice place. Now I guess I could now be considered as a project studio owner rather than a commercial studio owner, but even though it's here at "home" (although detached by a considerable distance from my house and totally independent of it) I still have to work around the schedules of my clients in order to do anything for myself, my wife or our daughter. As "home" studios get more upscale and involved with outside projects, some people will start to miss that luxury. Still, having it here nearby certainly has afforded me more opportunities to run out and use it on the "spur of the moment" as inspiration strikes.

 

That we can have such capabilities at our individual beck and call is truely a revolutionary development in the music industry.

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

email: pokeefe777@msn.com

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i'm split on this topic.

 

i was the aspiring hobbyist in 1992 with a mac lc running mastertracks pro, a kawai k4, a cheap fz1 sampler (that sometimes i do miss), and so on. and i always felt the scowl from the bigger studios i'd go to to mix down at, like there was no legitimacy to my shit because i was doing it on $3000 worth of equipment. but hey, i used to think my cr1604 was a deity.

 

today a $3000 investment for the 'hobbyist' is considered in some circles to be exalted. after all, you already have your 666mHz pentium 7, why not buy sonic foundry's acid and some soft synths. what's midi?

 

i tend to lose my patience with some of the newjacks who would get lost in front of a line mixer. or then there's the time i was at guitarhell waiting to buy something and a very raveified kid started asking me all about techno this and that, then asked me what the tattoo on my neck was (which was a midi plug).

 

but at the end of the day, like me and my hobbyist gear 10 years ago, some will progress to actual engineers with good ears and a different approach that may make me obsolete if i don't keep up. (i didn't enjoy learning acid, but i figured it was worth the hour in case i ever had to).

 

as to the music it produces, i don't know if heads who have every program and plugin known to man on their home computers now know just how good they have it, how much control, how much possibility, how much potential is there to be unleashed if they'd just learn more about it. again, some do and others don't have a clue.

 

some say it all started going to hell when rebirth 1.0 came out and sometimes i can't help but agree. move your mouse and win a prize.

 

again, there're some great records that are made with fastracker and and an amiga. sonic purity? no. sonic vengence? yessir.

 

judson snell

slang music group

judson snell

slang music group

chicago, il

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