A Drinkin Bandmate

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

What do ya do??? Ya got somebody that is a solid player...but they like to drink.. and on occasion raise quite a stir doing just stupid sophomoric stuff try to solicit a response!! We've thought of tossing 'em, but are we really to that point? Not sure.. How do the other members reel this person in? We've made comments to this person, and have gotten the 'Ok Ok Ok', 'I'll watch my shit'.

 

Hey I'm an old guy but new to dealing with this.. I(we) need some experienced advice.

 

Mo

 

 

[This message has been edited by Mo Thumper (edited 12-17-2000).]

[Fletcher]

Mo- The only difference between a drunk and an alcoholic is alcoholics go to meetings. Personally, I'm a drunk...I quite wnjoy it. Sometimes I open my mouth and stupid things come out...it's part of the job description, it can happen during times of complete sobriety as well.

 

Now, if the guy's drinking is getting in the way of his playing/performing, then it's either time for de-tox, or firing. If the guy is cutting the gig, and annoying you after the gig...like becoming an ass on the bus...introduce him to barbituates. He'll either die, or just fall asleep...either way he'll shut the fuck up.

 

If [god forbid] you're cooped up with this guy in a van...then 'gaffers tape' may indeed be the superior product to get him to shut up. If it's just him being a jerk to some of the 'aftershow klingons'...isolate him in a dressing room, or have whomever is your 'executive nanny' isolate him from the customers...if you don't have an 'executive nanny' [bTW, a good one would have already figured this out on their own]...then rotate assignments as to who's assignement it is to keep ----- out of trouble.

 

There was one I band I worked for where the guitar player was brilliant. He couldn't play for shit unless he had smoked a whole lot of pot, but after he did, the word 'smoke' was an understatement. During the course of the show, it was not unusual for this guy to kill *several* beers as well as a few shots of whiskey [and a line or two if it was around]. It never affected his playing [except the lack of pot thing].

 

However, most of the time when this guy got off stage, he was barely coherent. He was isolated [especially from press] and dealt with. Before they got a deal, the drummer used to play 'nanny' for him. He's still not allowed to do 'interviews'...only the singer and the bass player can do interviews. In fact, the only thing he's allowed to say to press is "Thank you, thank you very much"...it doesn't make him quotable in any manner, shape, nor form...which is how the band's publicist wants it.

 

Don't know if this helps or not.

 

-----

 

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio http://www.mercenary.com

[Tedster]

Good thoughts as per usual from Fletch...

 

But, my own 2 cents...nobody is such a good player that you should have to put up with shit just to keep 'em in the band "because they're so good".

 

A band I know (a couple of their members used to be in one of my bands) got banned from a couple of nice Kansas City clubs due to the antics of their bass player. To make matters worse, a different club owner asked me if I used to be in that band when I was talking to her about a gig...I said "Well, I wasn't in that band, but two of the guys used to be in my band", thinking that it would be a good reference since they were a decent draw. She said, "I'm not having anything to do with anyone that used to be in that band". After I scraped my jaw off the floor, (well, yes, I suppose it was my fault for not doing my homework, but one can't know everything) I left all pissed off at a lame-ass that I'd never even been in a band with.

 

So, bottom line...beware...

[stratman_dup1]

I personally just quit playing in a band because of this very problem. EVERYONE in the band drank and smoked to the point of effecting their playing, EVERY gig we had. I made comments about it several times and constantly got the o.k o.k. too. It didn't stop so I moved on.

 

My time is too important to me to waste it with musicians who aren't as serious as I am and spend more time drinking (or smoking) than playing. I have more important things I could be doing than babysitting a bunch of people that are supposed to be adults.

 

I have NEVER met a musician that plays better drunk or stoned than they do sober though I've met plenty that THINK they do. To those that THINK they do I would suggest this, spend more time PRACTICING and less time PARTYING and you might be suprised with the results.

My .02

[alphajerk]

man, we drank like fishes during shows. when the whole crowd is drunk it doesnt really matter. if ya dont like it and the rest of the band doesnt either, than get rid of him, who really cares?

 

youre not performing brain surgery here.

 

and i know plenty of people who play great regardless of the state of mind they are in. and live, if the band aint partying with the crowd, i dont care how tight they are. something is missing. playing out live is a party, not a recital.

[JP_dup5]

hey mo, here's how you do it. You call a band meeting, ( this will only work if he is the only problem you got and you are the leader of the band). the whole band agrees that a fee will be assessed for certain behavior. Late for practice more than once, not knowing new material on time, drunken behavior, etc. I did this to my band, and luckily, everyone agreed. even the problem child. I never had to go through it. yes he will know it is being levied towards him, but, as they say in the latvian national guard, tough shit. you're either part of the solution,or... etc.

[Curve Dominant]

JP's last suggestion was great. I'm gonna try that in the future.

 

In the past, I would address this problem by drinking more than everyone else in the band, but living in a perpetual state of hangover can be a drag.

[nhcomp45aol.com]

About a half hour before leaving my house with the band truck, I sit in my soft chair and relax and think here I go again.Normal guy transforms into local rock star. I get to the gig very relaxed like nothing is going on and start setting up. About 15 minutes before we go on I have a couple of good drinks usually Jim Beam and the adrenalin starts kicking in, At this point I am rock ready.By mid 2nd set I am so fired up I could drink a whole bottle of whiskey and be strait.No pot, No drugs but I like the inspiration of a couple of good drinks.

[Chip McDonald]

Originally posted by Mo Thumper:

What do ya do??? Ya got somebody that is a solid player...but they like to drink.. and on occasion raise quite a stir doing

 

You bail. If a guy is drinking to the point he's got a problem, you don't reason the guy out of it. It's a waste of time, I've watched it too many times and tried to do it to many times.

 

It's probably better to let the guy bottom out as fast as possible and hope he realizes it.

 

I've seen this happen so many times - it's probably the cause of so much mediocrity on a local level: bands that otherwise would be pretty good, if it wasn't for the "reward" of a bar tab. I've seen a number of local bands not only drink to the point that they end up running their tab out into their pay, but end up having to play an extra gig to *pay off the tab*. The club owners don't mind; it turns into a drunken freakshow - THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MUSIC - but in the end ruins the band, and the club falters as well.

 

Pot bands seem to manage the best it would seem, provided the talent was there to begin with. Pot bands *don't* work with career potheads; someone hitting age 30 after doing it hard core everyday for half their life tend to be either insipid artistically or practically unmotivated.

 

Coke bands work *if* they get somewhere before they self-destruct.

 

Alchohol bands work if everyone has it under control, and if it's a fairly heavy rock situation; one alchoholic in the band ruins

the whole thing, though.

[stratman_dup1]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

man, we drank like fishes during shows. when the whole crowd is drunk it doesnt really matter. if ya dont like it and the rest of the band doesnt either, than get rid of him, who really cares?

 

youre not performing brain surgery here.

 

and i know plenty of people who play great regardless of the state of mind they are in. and live, if the band aint partying with the crowd, i dont care how tight they are. something is missing. playing out live is a party, not a recital.

 

I hear where you're comin from Alpha, I'm not sayin to be a taskmaster or anything. My thing is a lot of enjoyment I get from playing live is putting on the best show I can. And I'm not sayin you shouldn't have a few drinks or whatever turns you on when your playin so long as you don't play like SHIT because of it.

 

Hell, I had a few beers and a shot Saturday at a gig so don't get me wrong. I mean taking it to extremes, like the Sax player did. He got so drunk he kept tripping over the monitors and runnin into people. Then he kept coming up to the mixer and turning his level up, and steppin all over my pedals while he was doin it, right in the middle of a song. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/mad.gif I had to reset my pedal settings several times because of it. Never mind how lousy his playing was, I don't even want to get started there.

 

This is the type of behavior I'm talking about. I gig to have fun and I can't do that when bandmates act like this, just served as a reminder why I quit that band.

[trick fall]

Before my band got rid of one guitar player we'd encourage him to do Special K, it was the only thing that shut him up.http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/icons/icon10.gif

[the stranger]

Wow,

I've never seen a horse play guitar! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Tedster]

There's a definite difference between having a couple drinks before a show to loosen up, or even partying hearty during a performance, and becoming stumbling blind uncontrollably shitfaced sloppy.

[Lee Flier]

I feel for ya Mo, having been through this myself several times. Had to quit a band at one point where the lead singer would get so fucked up during gigs that he'd reduce the gig to a comedy act most of the time, inviting his (non-musical) drinking buddies onstage to jam with us and just generally making it impossible to play real music or enjoy playing. The other band members didn't like it any more than I did, even though none of us were above a few drinks before, during or after a gig, but the singer kept on with his antics and eventually everyone quit, starting with me.

 

I agree with JP, if it's not the leader of the band who has the bad habit you should have a meeting and levy fines for this sort of thing. It is not a good idea to piss off club owners. There are some who actually LIKE to hire drunken bands but those are usually on the bottom of the gig ladder and you will never get any further than that if you've got somebody who's too wasted to play and/or conduct himself professionally during a gig. Some people seem able to hold their liquor well enough to play great and be at least semi coherent, and if they're that talented and can reasonably keep it together they may be worth keeping. But if you feel it's costing your band its reputation, if the meetings and the fines don't work, axe the dude. It ain't worth it.

 

--Lee

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

Thanks for the moral support everyone. The 'fine' idea is great. I've ran that by our main man and he totally agrees.

 

For one we kinda thought this approach will make it look as though we're not really singling him out, (there are times when each of us has not nailed some new material or been late for a set up or sound check).

 

As some of you pointed out.... The guy is our rhythm player/second lead singer, who at times has invited people up. The main thing is breaks, few times he's missed the first tune of the following set. We have worried about clubbers being to offended by some of his antics.... some thinks a hoot!!! but shit it gets old.

 

Hell now that I think about it, once the dumb shit jumps off the stage and fricken disappears...after about 30 seconds or so his playing all of a sudden stops!! The dumb fuck went out a back door with some other idiots and got locked out!! I guess that should of been it... 'cept the fool was so embaressed all we could do was laugh on the outside and scream on the in.

 

The guy sober is a great person and player and regrets most of his actions... but we really gotta draw a line.

 

Thanks again..... if this don't work we're gonna have to toss'em after New Years..but shit he's a friend too!!

 

Merry Christmas All

 

Mo

 

This message has been edited by Mo Thumper on 12-18-2000 at 02:43 PM

[Michael Riehle]

Well, the fines idea may work in your case.

 

For me, I've made it clear to everyone that there are a few unforgivable offenses. Getting drunk or stoned at rehearsal or performances is the first thing on the list.

 

The last band I was in had a rule of no drugs or alcohol at all during rehearsal or performance. The singer in my current band convinced me that that was excessive, but I've still made it clear that substance abuse problems will not be tolerated.

 

As for singling the guy out, why not? Here's the thing: his antics are creating a problem for everyone else in the band. Where does he come off wasting everyone's time and energy? I've had to deal with too many drunks to have any sympathy for them at all. A band leader (if your band has one) has not only the right, but the *resonsibility* to remove the problem.

 

Now, the one thing about Mo's situation that is salient, though, is that the ground rules weren't previously established. This puts the band leader in an uncomfortable situation that the fines idea may be able to circumvent. It's also a great opportunity to establish ground rules and head off future problems.

 

Me, I'd probably just fire the guy.

 

 

------------------

Michael Riehle

Bass Player/Band Leader

fivespeed

[Anderton]

I was in a band with a bass player who drank a lot...a very sweet guy, fine bass player, and a good friend.

 

He died about 15 years later of liver problems. Something to consider.

[nhcomp45aol.com]

how much did he drink to die . I think I drink a lot but I dont think I will die from it soon.

[Curve Dominant]

Stick to beer & wine, and you won't have to sweat that sh*t.

[alphajerk]

yea, thats like saying pot doesnt damage your lungs. or the air we breathe for that matter [especially if you live in the city].

 

there are lines that can be crossed. my last band drank like fishes but we did it together and it usually was along with the crowd. the whole mood of the night dictated what happened. none of us went off the deep in consistantly, one night all of us did... that was a hilarious night.

 

as for no drugs/alcohol during rehearsal/performance. how much fun is that? I would quit that band in a second. one of my bands way back was CALLED DRUG [and we used to see how many we could be on at one time] that was a great band. of course the space in time allowed for that, now way i could do that again but it sure was fun and had many a great shows, even one with cool lights flashing behind us only to turn around and find out it was the cops. man, that was one helluva night [nobody was arrested in case youre wondering, noise ordinance thing. we were playing outside so we just moved the party inside after everybody came back from out of the woods http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif]

[Michael Riehle]

It's all very well to do the drugs=rock, rock=drinking thing, but it'll bite you in the long run. If the drinking is the point for being in a band, you're going to have a problem. I keep running into people who think they play better after a drink or two. They are 100% wrong in every case I've encountered so far. Some of them don't degenerate much after one or two beers, but none of them improve and quite a lot of them *do* degenerate rapidly.

 

I have a good friend who's best friend - a guitarist - quit drinking altogether recently. He said something at the time that was pretty cool, IMO: "You know, nobody ever looks back on their life and says, 'My life would have been so much better if I'd had more to drink.'"

 

The thing is, I'm no teetotaler. But drinking at rehearsal or at performances is often a source of problems in bands. It was one less worry we had in the band where it was banned altogether. Funny thing was, we were all having a lot of fun in that band until the power struggle started (unrelated issues having to do with a replacement singer's desire to be in charge). Contrasted with another band I was in where drinking was encouraged: nobody was having any fun at either rehearsal or performance since the guitar player was always drunk enough to impair his playing.

 

So I mosly drink water. Sometimes a beer. Mostly no alchohol at all during performances. I encourage the same from the rest of the band, though I don't require it.

 

Sex, drugs and rock and roll is for the audience. The musician's should settle for rock and roll until after the show (though, I've never known sex before the show to be a problem). Nobody really wants to listen to a bunch of drunks try to play their instruments.

 

------------------

Michael Riehle

Bass Player/Band Leader

fivespeed

[batman forgot his cape]

This is a tricky one.....

I've always had a lot of sympathy with my fellow musicians in the US, regarding the long hours that they have to work....

Here, in the UK, a typical bar (pub) gig would consist of two sets, of around 45 minutes each, the last set finishing at 11pm, or very slightly later, in the event of an..ENCORE?!,

or....TWO???!!!

As a result, musicians (and punters) have less time to drink, unless, of course, they started before they arrived at the gig.

I've worked with countless musicians who've drunk enough to pole-axe a wildebeeste, and still delivered the goods...and then some!

I've also worked with countless more others who've got into serious problems with drink and drugs, and seriously compromised their music.

All drugs, including alcohol, make good slaves, but extremely bad masters, so, if you have a band member who's going totally OTT, try to help him/her out....if that don't work.

refer 'em to Ossie Osbourne...maybe they'll listen to him!!

By the way....I always remember an interview with Zoot Simms, where he was asked...how come he played so well when drunk.....the answer...

whith a rheumy eye and a flurry of notes on his horn...."Man.....I practice...drunk!!!"

Cheers all!

The Pissed Crusader...

 

P.S. make mine a large absinthe and gatorade!!

.."HIC!".."y'bastards..d'ye wan't some?" etc

[Faeflora]

Personally, I won't record or compose with someone who's drunk, drinking, or high. I've seen any felt the pain of MANY friends and family members on substances or dying from addiction so I choose to not be around any use at all.

 

I understand the whole "inhibitions retreating" thing, but I do feel that people can learn to express themselves without altering their reality with harmful chemicals.

[Anderton]

On a practical note...if you sing, drinking is definitely not a good idea, due to the dehydration. Ditto for coffee. You have to keep your vocal cords well-lubricated with water.

 

The one thing that totally creeps me out is playing with junkies. I was in a band once with a junkie bass player. It's like there was never anyone home. Scary, scary stuff. Made the drinkers in the band look downright straight.

 

I hope none of you have to deal with junk on any level...

[Tedster]

"My name is Ted, and I'm a forum junkie" (SOBS HYSTERICALLY)..."GOD, HELP ME!"

 

Off to the Betty Ford Clinic's new wing for forum junkies...

 

No thank God, I never had to deal with that. But a good friend of mine and an excellent guitarist watched helplessly while his mentor destroyed himself.

[kent_powellpalmercay.com]

Left one band for lack of seriousness. Their drinking was incidental. Later recruited their guitarist into my new group. Ended up firing him within a few months for showing up drunk for a gig. I had to catch him on his way to the ground after he fell back against the wall with his guitar in mid-song. I would have given him another chance, but the others had already cast their votes. Lesson: start a band with a friend; look for a new friend.

[David R.]

This is something I hate. I've been in bands with speed freaks, junkies, and drunks, and potheads.

 

Pot is usually not that bad. If everyone knows the songs. Their problem is usually showing up on time. I had to fire a drummer durring the recording of our cd because he was too stoned to show up to the studio. Twice.

 

Speed & Heroin: leave the band. Or have them leave the band. I remember one show where I was screaming at the guitar player to stop his solo and he just kept at it with this nowhere look in his eye. On the weekends he would talk about all the equiptment he was going to buy, only to put it up his nose. Real Life vampires.

 

Booze: it's fun, can relax a jumpy nerve, but can destroy one's judgement. It's fine untill it isn't. When it gets in the way of the business of a band, make a decision which is more important, the success of the band or keeping the friend/liability. I put together a band for a wedding and the keyboardist arrived drunk and contineud to drink at the gig. He became a liability and I lost money and future gigs because of him. He is still a friend but not someone who I will ever hire again.

 

Being loose is one thing, but the show must go on and if there is someone preventing this, then you are just wasting your time playing with them. Unless they are paying you. Sometimes that's not even worth it.

 

-David R.

[batman forgot his cape]

Tthis is all getting a little 0ne-sided...

Where's all the rabid dipsomaniacs,rictus cokeheads, luvved-up Ebeneezer Goodes, jokers, smokers and mid-night tokers, etc.......

Too busy hangin'-one-on to care...or...quietly

developing the next musical bombshell?!

We wanna hear from all you substance-abusers out there1

[Punchmo]

batman...dude, what do you read hear? There are times and notta times. If you are in your home studio doing your own thing, whatever goes can be it. If people are paying to see, hear, hire you, you better have your shit together whatever that takes http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif or else...

[envoidmail.com]

batman wrote :"We wanna hear from all you substance-abusers out there"

Here I am. Junkie for the last 20 years. My drug use has never interfered with my playing. Strictly my opinion, of course, and I have to add this caveat to all of my fellow opium eaters : NEVER(if you can pull it off)let anyone know.It's attitudes exactly like the one's expressed in this thread that'll get you thrown out of a band faster than you can say "syringe".Your performances could be flawless, your recording studio contributions near genius, but the minute your fellow band-members get wind of your drug of choice, it's curtains, trust me on this. Management, A&R reps,well-meaning associates- all will demand your immediate departure. I could go on, but I need a fix...