Anyone tried OS X?

[Anderton]

Has anybody here tried the beta version of OS X? Are there things you like/don't like about it? Is it stable enough to be more than something to play with? Anyone try MIDI or USB audio with it?

 

I'm seriously thinking of checking it out, but not if it's going to screw up my system.........

[Max Ventura]

Craig,

I cant answer to that yet, but I am looking forward to anything that can bring me away from OS9 hell.

I have an Imac DV400, native with OS9 (which means I cannot install 8.6) and it's been hell since day one. Besides the bugs in ALL the software bundled with it (I had to download fixes from everywhere), the computer crashes at least 4 or 5 times a day, and in general is not reliable at all; I changed it after a month, but the new one it's exactly the same; everybody tells me it's the OS clashing with extensions, and blah blah, and promised me 9.0.4 was gonna fix this; well, 9.0.4 erased half of the contents of my hard drive and System Folder. I read Steve Oppenheimer from EM mag also suffered exactly the same trouble.

I am not even barely considering doing audio production with this machine, at the moment (even if I was interested in doing that, which I am not, being so well off with my VS 1680 and other stuff). And I am afraid of OS X, but I hope is gonna take me at least in a new territory to explore.

Max

Italy.

[earfatigue]

from what i understand from the developer community, apple is going to make midi communications part of the os and there was some loose talk that it would in fact use some of the core of OMS (1987-1999 RIP).

 

two big problems, one being i doubt they would use opcode's source and two, i doubt they would implement it very well. think of any other thing apple has done to accommodate what they now consider "extranneous" or "field" use of their machines (now that they have millions of internet-in-a-box machines floating around).

 

i would be extremely surprised if the public release of osx did anything of the sort, but what scares me more is the imminent doom of being able to use OMS. it's unstable at best on os9 until you get your hands dirty. true, this opens the door for motu to make freemidi the new standard, but what about the other 85% of users who don't use their xfaces?

 

we'll see. i spent a good month getting os9 working with midi and digidesign hardware and until i see the pot of gold at the end of that rainbow i'm not going near it.

 

judson snell

slang music group

[Anderton]

>>two big problems, one being i doubt they would use opcode's source and two, i doubt they would implement it very well. <<

 

You'll be happy to know that Apple hired Doug Wyatt, one of the main architects of OMS, a while ago. The rumor is that he's there to handle the MIDI aspects that will be incorporated into new Mac OS. So they may not use the same source code, but if Doug's doing the implementation, you can assume it will be done well.

[Guest]

Argomax,

If you're having lots of problems in OS 9.0.4 I would boot to the OS 9 all set in the Extensions manager and see if they go away . If not, then run disk first aid while booted to the OS CD. If there are no problems and the issues persist, clean install the OS. Before loading any extensions test the machine for the issue. If it is gone, reinstall drivers and test between installs to find the culprit. My guess is that it isn't a problem with the OS but rather one with an extension as you surmised.

If none of this helps, call Apple for troubleshooting at 1-800-APL-CARE.

As to OS X, it looks really cool and runs smoothly but is a different beast than the previous OS releases. Looking forward to the alpha release.

[Anderton]

>>As to OS X, it looks really cool and runs smoothly but is a different beast than the previous OS releases. <<

 

But does it make using the computer faster or more enjoyable?

[Uh Clem]

Originally posted by Anderton:

>>As to OS X, it looks really cool and runs smoothly but is a different beast than the previous OS releases. <<

 

But does it make using the computer faster or more enjoyable?

 

 

It should - make it more enjoyable if reliability is a goal - but it may be a rough ride for the pioneers http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif. Mac users are finally getting modern OS features such as:

 

pre-emptive multi-tasking - this puts the OS in control of running more than one program at a time. this is in contrast to cooperative multi-tasking where the applications had to be written carefully to cooperate with each other - a locked up application can hold the whole system and all running applications hostage under this arrangement.

 

protected virtual memory - allowing for additional memory requirements to be fulfilled by additional disk space and managed by the OS. I'm surprised to find that was not in the current MacOS, but the OS X web site makes a big deal about it, so I guess it is new.

 

These are features coming down from higher-end systems like IBM Mainframes and DEC, SUN, and HP minis - and, more recently, PCs running Windows 9x and Windows NT/2000. Seems that most of the guts for MacOS X are coming from UNIX derivatives.

 

Hopefully it will be more akin to Windows NT and not crippled in an attempt to support legacy applications that required unstable compatibility code - i.e., DOS, legacy games, and Win3.X application support in Win9x. I don't know if Mac has any of that kind of baggage - hopefully no.

 

This never worked well in that the OS (Win9x) capitulates and gives control back to applications that need to "touch" the hardware or resources. Since memory is one of those resources, errant applications never written with sharing in mind can run amuck and bring everything down. NT and most UNIXs don't allow that - every thing goes thru the OS - only the OS touches resources - which requires all new device drivers and some app re-writes, especially utilities.

 

The transition is not trivial for applications or hardware drivers. Anyone that remembers using Win3.x and moving applications to NT or 95 will know that most device drivers and applications really needed to be re-written before they realized that advantages of the new OSs.

 

So in the long haul OS X looks to be awesome. Best bet for Mac users now is to start really banging on the doors of your favorite SW maker to get support or it ASAP.

 

Oh, and there ain't no way you're getting all that extra code to do all that stuff well and to run on the same machine you have today at anywhere near the same speed - if at all. I can't think of many 1994 Win3.x boxes that would have a prayer running Win2K today. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

[Max Ventura]

Thanx Wormhole, but I tried all that already.

Some extension could also be part of the problem, but somebody hinted that the processor might be just heating too much in my long working day (Imac has no cooling fan), and therefore quit once in a while. I've heard it all.

[Guest]

If you hinlk you are having an issue with your CPU then run the graphing calculator on full demo mode overnight. That is a sure fire test of the CPU.

As to OS X developers will have to write some new code to take advantage of the Unix style kernel in the OS. Several developers have jumped on board already. OS X will be cool since there aren't any extensions to conflict and if there is a problem then an app can't pull the whol;e system down.

The interface is different but you can run it in classic mode to make it look like OS 9

[Alon]

As for the processor getting too hot...

 

The new apples w/o a fan, are supposed to run cooler than the previous ones with a fan...

 

What's the temp ?

 

You can use gauge pro or simliar programs to measure cpu temp...

[John Worthington]

From what I've seen so far, I'm not so sure OS X is going to be the great thing we all expect.

Originally posted by stevepow:

pre-emptive multi-tasking - this puts the OS in control of running more than one program at a time. this is in contrast to cooperative multi-tasking where the applications had to be written carefully to cooperate with each other - a locked up application can hold the whole system and all running applications hostage under this arrangement.

 

This means that a poorly written background application can completely screw up the application in the foreground. I kind of like the idea that when I running ProTools and it's in the foreground, it gets all of the cycles it wants.

 

protected virtual memory - allowing for additional memory requirements to be fulfilled by additional disk space and managed by the OS

 

Of course, the OS trying to page software in and out from disk is going to affect the available bandwidth to memory. I guess I'm turning into a cyber-geezer, but I've always believed that paging is your computer's way of telling you to buy more RAM.

 

Seems that most of the guts for MacOS X are coming from UNIX derivatives.

 

Yep, remember NeXTStep. That's basically what OS X is. And while there was some cool software written for NeXT, it wasn't cool enough that studios bought them.

 

The transition is not trivial for applications or hardware drivers.

 

And worse is the fact that Apple hasn't published much info for hardware developers. I know engineers that are pulling their hair out trying to figure out enough to get their particular products up and running.

 

So in the long haul OS X looks to be awesome. Best bet for Mac users now is to start really banging on the doors of your favorite SW maker to get support or it ASAP.

 

I think it's going to be a disaster. Probably an even bigger disaster than the cube, which is useless for most media production due to the lack of professional exapasion capabilities.

 

The interface to OS X ignores most of what we've learned about interface design over the last 20 years. Buttons blink for no reason other than to confuse you and try to get your attention. More and more of the host CPU power is getting directed to eye candy in the interface. I don't need gummy bear buttons in my DAW's interface.

 

Maybe I'm wrong and it'll be the greatest thing since sliced bread, these problems aren't new. Back in 1988 Apple started to work on moving Macintosh onto a more modern OS architecture. There have been several attempts since then and none sucessful. There was "Pink", then "Taligent", then "Copeland." Most of the development community is pretty jaded.

 

jw

 

[This message has been edited by John Worthington (edited 12-09-2000).]

[alphajerk]

the cube was never meant to be a media production unit. it was meant for executive desks. they have sold quite a bit of them despite the hefty price tag.

 

i agree about the fancy OS. i turned off the "platinum appearance" on my MAC machine running DP not wasting the resources. i hope you can do the same with OSX. the biggest problem with OS developers is that they think just because the computers are getting faster and have more ram that they can bloat the OS with USELESS features. i dont care about transparent windows or the docking bay. i just want a fast stable platform to run my APPLICATIONS!

[Curve Dominant]

>>what scares me more is the imminent doom of being able to use OMS. it's unstable at best on os9 until you get your hands dirty.<<

 

Does this mean that my fantasy of syncing my G3 (w/OS9) with my VS880EX via MOTU Interface via OMS/Logic VS is just that - a fantasy? Should I go for it & plow thru the headaches, or just fughettaboutit, and save the $$$ I'd spend on the MOTU interface? Or is there any alternative to this OMS I've been hearing totally un-cool things about?

[batman forgot his cape]

Going back to the start of this thread....

 

"I'm seriously thinking of checking it out, but not if it's going to screw up my system........."

 

Of course it's going to screw up your system!

Install OSX on your "experimantal" G4/500DP...

by all means......whaddya mean..you don't have one??!!

Seriously, that's the only way to go, don't try to run OSX with your well-functioning music/audio stuff....you should be making music....much more satisfying!!...leave the grief to others........

If you must, partition your Mac Apps drive. Run OSX on one partition, OS9x or 8.6.1, on another, and, if you like to live dangerously, and enjoy a good laugh, OS8.5 on a third...

Regards,

 

Ade

[Anderton]

>>the biggest problem with OS developers is that they think just because the computers are getting faster and have more ram that they can bloat the OS with USELESS features. i dont care about transparent windows or the docking bay. i just want a fast stable platform to run my APPLICATIONS!<<

 

Apple...Microsoft...are you listening?!?

[alphajerk]

dont even get me started on the useless features of Windoze.

 

can you believe im still running 8.1 on my mac? i would still be running windoze 95 if it wasnt for this damn wacom usb tablet that MADE me upgrade. been regretting it ever since. i had to go out and buy another 128MB of RAM too.

[Guest]

I would put OSX on an external drive so that if it does crash you don't have to reinit your system drive. I've played around witht the beta and it seems very cool but haven't had the chance to really get into it yet.

And you're right, the cube isn't meant to be a production machine. I like the products that Apple is coming out with, I just hope the market will decide to start buying computers again so the stock will go back up.