caiv Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Hi everyone.. Ok. my wife just told me that I better start making some money with my little and no so fancy home recording room if I what to spend more money on it(I would not call it a studio) so she wants me to start writing jingles. I don't have idea how to start. I most admit that I am a little scare at the idea of having to put my mind to work in a "Commercial" state. But I have the chops and equipment to pull it off. Just one problem: What do I do next?? Should I write a "ficticial" jingle, and take that to... to who?? Should I just take a couple of my already recorded an not so commercial instrumentals (I'm not a singer..I get the chills when I have a mic in front of my mouth) and use that??.what do I do next?? Please help me!! I don't have idea, and never actually have gave it a thought. so is you have any opinions, ideas, experiences that you want to share..please don't hold it back!! Thank you very much http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 You might want to get hooked up with someone in the sales dept of a local radio station... "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 >>is you have any opinions, ideas, experiences that you want to share..please don't hold it back!!<< Don't hold back? OK, here's me not holding back. Tell your wife to go find something to do with herself. Commercial-jingle production is not something you just "start making money" at; it's big business. Besides, what do YOU want to do? Leave Indiana for NYC or LA to learn the craft of jingle-writing? Sounds to me like you had other things in mind when you built your studio, brotha. Best to stick wit' whatcha like, & learn how to tell your lady to chill. She's your wife, but it's your life. Your smilage may vary. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 I would say the same thing, tell her if she loves you and wants you to be happy.... Anyway, I always notice that our locals cable company has all these lo-fi cheesy ass commercials for local business'. If you are the creative type, which I'm sure you are, I would consider going the full nine and doing the whole TV/Radio ad agency thing. You've got the gear, I guessing you have a computer. Sonic Foundry has a variety of programs that would seem to do the trick. Of course, you might consider trying to hook up with a local rinky dink ad agency and see if you could maybe add your resources to make their thing a notch better. Actually this would be mandatory if you wanted to do the video thing. I'm sure you don't have an arsenal of video gear, eh? I'm really a nobody on the subject, but I've thought about it, too. Every time I see one of those local ads, I just cringe because they are SO shitty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiv Posted November 29, 2000 Author Share Posted November 29, 2000 Yep..I listen to this TV and Radio Things that apear and i know i can do something better. i have just a computer+keyboard, but i have a lot of shit in that computer, around 5.000 us in software+hardware. nice 16 bit A/d's, a couple of mic's and my guitar rig. Dont mess with my wife, she comes from the fact that i spend around 30 hours in weekdays in that studio. and around 20 more in the weekends + my day job.and she only whats me to be able to stay home full time. that would requier more gear and money and contacts and.....well you know the rest. she had hear some stuff i have produce and really piss her off that im not using my talents in a more financial friendly way, and she does have a trained ear. forget i mention my wife. should i produce a fake jingle as a demo? or just send cards around presenting myself and my services? im going to try radio stations and cheese ad companies. anything else i should try?? (BTW. Spell check does not work with OPERA 4.02.) http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Spell check most obviously does not work, and forget I mentioned your wife - your post perhaps left me with a false impression. A demo of "proto" jingles is a great idea, as is business cards. But put first things first. Do some market research. What businesses would employ you? Compile a list of TV affiliates, radio stations & ad agencies in your area, find out what they need, and tailor your demo & self-promotion to those needs. In other words: seek first to understand, and then make yourself understood. Think about a visit to your local Chamber of Commerce, and consult the Small Business Administration - they can help you network with potential clients, and develop a business plan, respectively. Create a recognizable and memorable Brand Identity for your service that focuses on the needs of your clientele. Be persistent, but professional, in selling your services. Always follow-up after a job; make sure your clients were happy with your work, and work with them on ways you can improve any shortcomings. Make this your credo: Continuous Improvement. Get 50% up front ALWAYS. Give your clients whatever they want, but charge them for your time. Be pro-active, but be firm. Focus on finishing the job, and get on to the next one. Tell the client that this is in their best interest: they have deadlines to meet, too. Get a good accountant before you do anything. Make the aquaintence of an entertainment lawyer, or six. Gradually form a team - a winning team. Don't let any slackers hang around you - surround yourself with winners. Do what YOU do best and let others do the rest. Know Why..."The person who knows how will always have a job. The person who also knows why will always be their boss."- Ralph Waldo Emerson Buy this book and read it from cover to cover: "The Seven Habits Of Highly Effective People" by Steven Covey. Once again, not holding back. You asked for it. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiv Posted November 29, 2000 Author Share Posted November 29, 2000 Whow!!! that was a great post!! cool curve. Thanks. One more question: how much should i ask for???, I know that is a little subjective, but im just wondering how should i collect my money. per hour or per project. should i have different rates for different projects e.g. only midi vs. recorded musicians. fast and simple vs complicated and perfect, etc. i do have a lot of contacts that i can use if i need a real instrument, like horns or strings. Thanks again. http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Whoah! I'm gonna hafta start charging you, babe! First rule of success: the more you figure out for yourself, the more power you accumulate. But thanks for the compliment! I charge $250 to sit down and talk about the project. Take it from there...ask 'em "What's your budget?" Give them what they pay for, charge for expenses (your musician's fees, etc.) add 100% for your trouble. [This message has been edited by Curve Dominant (edited 11-29-2000).] Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiny G Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Two cents from me. There is A TON of music being broadcast that wouldn't qualify as a jingle. Put together a sample reel of music, find an ad agency that will let you post score an ad. Don't come off as so important you can't be bothered to meet without some money first. Be hungry. If you have the chops then someone will figure it out and you'll get work, otherwise, it's a fun hobby. There is broadcast promo music, music libraries, news music, music for advertising (jingles), music/sound design for the web, post audio, folley work, sound fx recording and editing, books on tape, documentary music, film scoring, film trailer scoring, music for TV shows (including the show open, show close, bumpers, and then the actual program), corporate event/presentation music and sound design, nice church ladies who want a recording of the local choir. . . etc. . . I'm just saying, there are lots of ways to get some money out of your studio and talent, don't limit yourself to just "Jingle's" unless that's what you really want to focus on. Oh, and you'll need a "lock to picture" setup of some kind for most of this stuff. Good luck and let us know when you get your first project. ------------------ Tiny G Tiny G Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnBartus Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 Curve, Tiny: Great advice! I've been in the business for 13+ years, and all of what the both of you said is absolutely correct. One more bit of advice: once you start down the slippery slope of making music for cash in your project studio, you'll be surprised at how much time it will take -- and how much time and energy it will take away from your more artistic ambitions. Unless you're really disciplined, totally dedicated, and incredibly creative, you'll find that the new song can wait for you to finish the jingle... and then five years down the line, you still haven't finished that song. I know of which I speak. I wish you all the success you want and the time to enjoy it. ------------------ John Bartus Radio Active Productions We Make Great Radio Happen - Guaranteed. 1-888-93-RADIO www.radioactivedigital.com John Bartus Music From The Fabulous Florida Keys www.johnbartus.com www.cdbaby.com/bartus www.radioactivedigital.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted November 29, 2000 Share Posted November 29, 2000 "A demo of "proto" jingles is a great idea, as is business cards. " i got one hella addition to that already great idea. make your own jingle, a jingle company jingle. then get the business cards that are actually CD's. somebody sent me an email the other day that makes them. they are the size of biz cards but play in cd players. its: Electronic Media Central corporation Jhon Frazier 1(800) 843-3606 they didnt include a URL but a search should turn something up. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiv Posted November 30, 2000 Author Share Posted November 30, 2000 Thanks everybody. That is a greate deal of input. yes alpha i hearya! the cool thing is that making CD's is kind of my day job. so i can get those. the only problem with CD's that size is that only alows for a few minuts of music to be played. i may try and find a design that plays more data. or i may stay in the Normal 650mb size. i have music for a bed. i'll get my brother in law for voice overs (My accent only fits into the "Latino" type). Thanks agin.. CC http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 im sure they are only going to listen to a few minutes of it if that. they will request more if you get past that point [a portfolio, oh double edge sword] you really only need a couple minutes, commercials are usually 20 seconds, you could fit several on one of those cards. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 I've been doing a lot of these over the years (maybe hundreds) and let me give you a coupl'a tips.... a) Be prepared to have your idea totally fucked by some car saleman-type loser who has absolutely no fn idea, thus making your product sound second rate. b) Avoid at all costs the clients suggesting they take part in the process c)Get in with the big gun broadcasters in your city. Take the copywriter to the pub for a few (hundred) beers. d) Continually reinvest in your equipment (good for tax, too) e) Consider a Mastering House deal so your product really stands out on-air. Those digital Optimods can be pretty unforgiving if your mix aint right. That's about all I can think of for the moment. It can be real fun sometimes, but it can also be VERY trying. Good luck ... just don't go poaching my town http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif Cheers Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pro Jules Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 A chum decided he HATED the jingle buisness, he dropped out to do music for a year. He is on welfare now and homeless, he was earning $120,000 pa. He HATED corny 14 second crap music jingles, it killed him inside. He killed off the golden goose. He is clawing his way back into the ad world. Jesus, talk about ups and downs! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif Jules Jules Producer Julian Standen London, UK, Come hang here! http://www.gearslutz.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Alpha states: >>make your own jingle, a jingle company jingle. then get the business cards that are actually CD's.<< This is the CDROM/BusinessCard. This is the future/present of promoting our services. Your potential clients can look & listen at your ideas from a CD that costs $1 per copy! You can continually update these CD/Cards as you build your portfolio. Graphic innovation for sleeve design, enticing sound & video editing, all on one disc anyone can pop onto their PC. It's a resume + demo + contact info in one discreet hand-off. Elegant, effective. Yeah, Baby!! >>Be prepared to have your idea totally fucked by some car saleman-type loser<< YO< DID THIS GUY HAVE A GUN TO YOUR HEAD? Take the clients you like, and tell the "used-car salesmen" that you're too busy. Nuff said. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the stranger Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 Julian, Was that chum you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiv Posted November 30, 2000 Author Share Posted November 30, 2000 Thanks to all. very informative post in here. speaking of "Chums" How about if you guys relate some horror stories. maybe stupid car salesmans that dont care yakscuad about sound and content but wants her nice to do voiceover. or the cheese ad company that needs a 30 sec jingle for tomorrow at 8 o'clock am. So for the ones that had some expirience in the biz, tell me . What is the worst thing that had happened to you?? Cheers http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 >>maybe stupid car salesmans that dont care yakscuad about sound and content but wants her nice to do voiceover. or the cheese ad company that needs a 30 sec jingle for tomorrow at 8 o'clock am.<< Don't waste time meditating on that negativity, brotha. Be firm with your clients. Make them understand that YOU know what they need and what to reasonably expect. If you can't make the sale, don't waste any time - move on to your next lead. Remember: the demand for your services is high. If you want to be a playa & work only on cool projects, you gotta pay your dues, but then you can get affiliated with the cutting-edge ad agencies that are gonna want cool music. But if you're hearing horror stories about musicians getting dogged by their clients, that's the musician's fault, 'cause peeps will dog you in any business if you let them. WORD IS BOND. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted November 30, 2000 Share Posted November 30, 2000 no disrespect intended curve: word is nothing, contract is everything. sounds like you are at the base level, you are going to have to grovel for a while. maybe even have to do some work pro bono until you get your feet wet. if you are having to ask these questions, you need to get out there, network. you WILL figure them out for yourself... or fail. dont mean to be harsh, its just reality. alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curve Dominant Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 No disrespect intended Alpha, but we gotta get you down wit da lingo. "Word Is Bond" is street-slang (in Philly, anyway) for a hard to describe feeling you have for someone you trust and care about. It's like saying "keep it real" but it's deeper than that. You're saying that you say what you mean, and you mean what you say, and you trust the person you say that to that the same goes for them. We cool? Otherwise, that post of yours was fe real. Eric Vincent (ASCAP) www.curvedominant.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphajerk Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 sorry dude. misunderstood alphajerk FATcompilation "if god is truly just, i tremble for the fate of my country" -thomas jefferson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caiv Posted December 1, 2000 Author Share Posted December 1, 2000 Ok, then , don't tell any HORROR stories http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif How about HAPPY stories then http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif . I'm just trying to get a feel for it from you guys!! Cheers http://indianapolismusic.net/IMN-2.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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