MIDI Guitar-State of the Art?

[Haolemon]

Some years ago I got into trying to use MIDI guitar. I owned and used an early Roland model, a Casio, and the Yamaha G10. I still have the G10, but haven't used it in a few years. Eventually, I retreated back to just playing guitar, mostly for the immediacey of the response.

 

Has much changed in this area since the G10? In other words, have the products improved enough to warrant checking them out?

 

Thanks

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

Checkout the below url. They are definitely http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif.

 

Hope Craig doesn't mind

 

http://www.fender.com//electricguitars/strats/standard/stand_roland_specs.html

[Anderton]

>>Has much changed in this area since the G10? In other words, have the products improved enough to warrant checking them out?<<

 

Ah yes, the G10 -- the famous "MIDI Dustbuster"! I have one too, it's also sitting in limbo. The ultrasonic approach was the way to go, but Quantar, who did it right initially, are out of business and Yamaha really could have done a better job on the controller.

 

But yes, things have changed dramatically. I currently use the Yamaha G50 guitar-to-MIDI converter. I believe the technology is licensed from Axon, who also make some bitchin' converters. Response is much faster and more accurate that the old days; it actually "learns" your playing style so the tracking gets more accurate over time. Sort of like those speech-to-text translators.

 

Meanwhile, Roland has greatly refined the "all in one box" concept with their GR-line units. Tracking is much improved, the onboard sounds are pretty darn good (and response is really fast because they're triggered internally, not through MIDI). The only drawback of the Roland approach is if you want to drive external synths via MIDI, the response is not quite as fast as the G50, but close.

 

The biggest problem is that synth manufacturers have lost the recipe of producing MIDI-guitar friendly synths. The Yamaha TX81Z and TX802, as well as many Ensoniq synths, were GREAT for MIDI guitar because they had legato modes and mono response that worked well with guitar. I've heard the E-mu Proteus also works great with MIDI guitar, but haven't tried it. In analog-land, you can't beat an Oberheim Xpander for MIDI guitar response. A lot of the "tracking problems" experienced with MIDI guitar often had more to do with the synth setup than the guitar.

 

Anyone else out there using MIDI guitar? Hello? Hello?!? Any synths work well for you?

[alphajerk]

ive been looking at them, mainly to get midi info into a sequencer for composing reasons. i write better on guitar than piano [although i have been playing piano for twice as long]

 

i guess im still waiting. the gr30 is at a good price point now i might have to get one soon. of course ive gotten away from midi lately so its not at the top of my list like mics/pres are [things that dont become obsolete and actually INCREASE in value over time]

[Guest]

I've been running a gr30 for a couple of years, and have had pretty good success with a number of synths. Caveat: I'm not a very fast player, so tracking delay is usually not an issue with me. I've had really good success with the Nord Lead 2 and Micromodular, as well as an Alesis Nanosynth. Yamaha FS1r works well. Looking forward to testing a Waldorf MicroQ. As for older synths, the Korg M1/M3R work well, especially the M3R. The Yamaha TG33 works pretty good, but can be funny depending on the patch. The Oberhein Matrix 1000 is fantastic.

 

It really depends a lot on the patches and synth setup. Guitar technique, too....

 

And another note.. the Nord Micromodular can be programmed to work as a great mono guitar synth. That little red box is amazingly versatile.....

[caiv]

does any of these guitar to midi systems have the ability of send one channel per string?? that is what I mostly looking for. I know that the midiaxe does that but I don't have 3.000 bucks to burn in yet another guitar. ho yes .. is for mainly seq parts for compositions. I tent to hear my compositions better if im using different voices, and having a violin for the first string, viola for the second, cello for the .....well you get the idea. this would help a lot, and I do have the technic to pull it off.

 

Thanks

[Guest]

Some years ago I wrote a product review of the Roland GR-30 and found it to be good but maybe not altogether what something that would be successful. This was mainly due to the user interface, the sounds and, to a smaller extent, the triggering.

 

Then I had the opportunity to write a review of the new Roland GR-33 and they had sorted out all my complaints. As I seriously doubt that anyone at Roland read my original GR-33 review in Swedish I can only assume that many guitar players voiced the same complaints I did and thus Roland improved their product.

 

I must say that the GR-33 is now on my shopping list after having had a chance to try it out in my studio for two weeks.

 

In case any of you are interested in hearing the demo tunes I recorded with the GR-33 for my review you are welcome to check them out at: http://home.swipnet.se/Nermarks_hemstudio/artiklar/div_artk/2000/Roland/GR-33/GR-33e ng.htm

 

 

Hope you enjoy them!

 

Best regards,

 

Mats Nermark

 

np: Mr Mister: Greatest Hits (I love Stave Ferris' guitar work. Does anoybody know what he's up to nowdays?)

 

[This message has been edited by mats.nermark@swipnet.se (edited 11-17-2000).]

[Anderton]

Mats always comes through, doesn't he? Thanks.

 

>>does any of these guitar to midi systems have the ability of send one channel per string?? <<

 

That's almost mandatory. All the systems I've tested allow sending each string on its own channel.

[Max Ventura]

Craig, about 8 years ago an Italian company called CharlieLab made this lovely device called Digitar: it's a box with 6 wires across mimicking the strings of a guitar about in the center of the body - where you strum and pick. The device will pick up chords and notes via Midi In, lay those chords on the strings in a proper guitar layout (i.e, if you make a D chord, the low E string will be mute), and then the device would stream those notes you pick out to Midi modules.

Because the strings movements are read by an optical reader, and the pitch is coming from Midi, this is the only Midi guitar device that you can actually strum as fast and rhytmic as you like, with no delay or errors whatsoever. It will also allow you settings such as velocity, volume of each strings, and the like. Obviously overlooked by every reviewer (mostly because of the untraslatable internal menus) it is now built-in on one keyboard synth the same brand makes, so you can strum guitar sounds and stuff like that... strumming a Steinway grand - so much fun!!!

 

Max,

Italy.

[chanter]

I know a while back Craig Anderton had specifics in some magazines related to midi guitar set ups, etc. I'm just wondering if you have anything out there in book form specific to midi guitar and relatively current? If not do you have any articles available or does your book about guitars and effects cover any of that?

 

Thanks,

Rob C.

[Anderton]

>>Obviously overlooked by every reviewer (mostly because of the untraslatable internal menus) it is now built-in on one keyboard synth the same brand makes, so you can strum guitar sounds and stuff like that... strumming a Steinway grand - so much fun!!!<<

 

I actually did review it, and favorably too - it really is a clever device, and yes, I still have mine (untranslatable internal menus included). It's still being made, I saw it over in Frankfurt last week. Ilio Entertainments used to distribute it in the US, I think they still do.

[Anderton]

>>I know a while back Craig Anderton had specifics in some magazines related to midi guitar set ups, etc. I'm just wondering if you have anything out there in book form specific to midi guitar and relatively current? <<

 

I did some articles on the subject for Music and Computers a while back, but nothing too recent. Maybe I should update the material and include it here on the site...

[Philip OKeefe]

MIDI guitar ... the promise never quite fullfilled.

 

I've always been better on guitar than on keyboards, and I have always wanted a Gtr to MIDI interface that REALLY worked well. After reading Craig's review of the Beetle Quantar way back when, I wanted to get one of those... everyone I ever heard talk about it said it was the best MIDI guitar controller ever built. Alas, by the time it became enough of a priority (read as "I could finally afford to spend the coin") it had been discontinued.

 

I've owned / tried several things over the years, and it does seem to be getting better, but it's never really QUITE there. I know, you have to adapt your guitar playing to make it appropriate to the instrument (or synth) patch you're using... that's okay, and doesn't bother me. You have to customize your patches and optimize them for use with MIDI guitar... that's kind of a bummer, but I can handle it. You have to either be willing to accept the "onboard" sounds or deal with MIDI delays... again, not very cool, but you deal with it. And then there's tracking delays... so many things have tried to conquer that beast, and while it's gotten better, would you accept 5 - 15 ms delays, and delays that get longer the lower the note you play on a KEYBOARD controller?

 

It's not so much any one of these issues, to me it's the combined total of all of them. And it seems that, besides Roland (bless them for it) no one really wants to steadfastly support and develop MIDI guitar technology. More's the pity. But companies have to go with what they can sell, and guitarists are a surprisingly conservative bunch when it comes to things like that for some reason.

 

So what do I use? A keyboard most of the time, or my Roland GI-10. It's not perfect, but it works okay for tracking into a sequencer, where I can clean things up. I would never trust it for live performance, not that I do much of that anymore.

 

I do wish someone would come out with the "perfect" MIDI guitar controller...

 

 

Phil O'Keefe

Sound Sanctuary Recording

Riverside CA

http://members.aol.com/ssanctuary/index.html

email: pokeefe777@msn.com

[mr. rob]

Hey guys,

Im using the gr 33. It feels pretty good to play, but as with all midi pitch systems there is something left to be desired.

Something I'd eventually like to get is starr labs z-tar. It looks pretty hot, I just cant afford one presently though:-(.

www.starrlabs.com

 

Ive heard bad things about the g50 and axon ax100 for fingerstyle. Is this accurate? Because Ive also heard that overall for pitch-midi that the axon ax100 is the best. Its reviews at harmony central suck because poeple have bought it for its internal sounds when really its meant to be used with external modules.

 

The gr 33's internal sounds are kind of weak, I was expecting more.

I wonder how its tracking with external modules compares to earlier units. Ive heard that while the gr 33 may work better with its internal sounds, that it may not be that big of an improvement over the gi 10, or gr 33.

I hope this is not the case because if it was I would have been better off getting a gi 10 or g50 off ebay and using the money I saved for a REAL synth module.

 

Despite the rumbling ive heard that roland may have dropped the ball with the gr 33's internal sounds(wich I cant disagree with) I'd say its a blast to use. Although I have no previous midi guitar experience Ive heard that its not a big enough improvement over the3 gr 30 or even the gr 50 to get long time users excited. I wonder how much of this is valid and how much is just dissapointment that the gr 33 didnt have everything theyd ever dreamt it should.

 

One big dissapointment is that its not multi timbral , so if you want to do some sequencing youll NEED other sound modules.Thats something they just dont print in the adds. Also, it sounds NOTHING like a jv 1080, as the review on the musicplayer site says, its vintage 1992.

[Steve44]

Here is a link that I found while searching for something I'll describe below: http://jpsongs.com/troubadortech/mgtr.htm

This page has all sorts of information regarding current and discontinued Midi guitar stuff, complete with many links.

 

I read an article sometime in the past year about optical guitar pickups. It may be similar to the Quantar that I've heard described, but I'm not sure. Instead of using a coil pickup, it sends little infrared vibrations at the strings and then picks up the frequency of vibration based on the reflection speed. But what was weird is that it wasn't immediately for midi guitaring, but to be used as an efficient divided pickup. It could also be used for midi control, but I can't remember whether it still required a pitch to midi conversion or not. Maybe I just dreamed this all up, but I do believe I remember both reading it and finding it on the web somewhere, but I can't find it anymore...

[Bob_dup6]

That optical pickup would most likely be that made by the company eponymous to www.lightwave-systems.com They were promising a hex output from their pickups for Fall 2000 delivery, but haven't updated their site to indicate whether it's shipping yet. They were also only selling to OEMs. As of Fall NAMM, I understand that they were looking for a marketing director.

 

I would like to find better sources on MIDI-guitars, but I don't find a much of a technical community on the net dedicated to this and related topics, and there are many very conflicting opinions being published.

 

For my own use, I'm hoping that fast and accurate response from soft synths will be achieved, and if I understand correctly, that might require a post-MIDI solution due to the lags featured in MIDI implementations. Perhaps the optical sensing pickups will reduce tracking delays, particular ly if adaptive systems such as Axons are tailored by the manufacturer?

 

An onboard converter a la MidiAxe with an IEEE-1394 output might be the best configuration when that transmission protocol gets to be more widely implemented...or perhaps USB-2.

 

I noticed that Craig was predicting the demise of rack gear as a sensible option, as well as the demise of its dollar value, in a recent Guitar Player front section. The hex pickup to a/d/trasmission protocol converter to fast serial interface to generalized computing platform with soft synths and instrument/amp/physical environment/recording chain modelling setup with minimal lag sounds very promising. I'm hoping he will use his magazine visibility to drum up demand for such a path and get us there sooner rather than later.

[strat0124]

Hey.....Roland GR-1 here!!!!!!!!! It's been semi-retired, as I rarely use it anymore. It's fun, but as you well know with any midi guitar setup, some tones track better than others. It is cool to add stuff subtly in the background with your guitar, but it's shortcomings will be noticeable if you crank the midi tones and make it a centerpiece (in live play). Of course recording is a different thing. I did see a guy use the VG and the GR stuff together with a selectable out going to a Boomerang......lots of noise with just one guitar....too cool.

[Talcott]

Parker MidiFly through a QSR, and XV 5080. Love the guitar even without the midi, but the midi axe technology seems very effective ie I have used it live with success. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[JingleJungle]

Aaaahhh...the MIDI Guitar dream....I'd love to be able to pilot my sampler and synths and I'll probably try to do that with a GR-33. I used to have the old GR50 rack and I liked to use the pads quite a lot. I'd let them drone on with the S2 switch and the just wail on with the humbuckers... Nowadays I use a VG8 EX (1st series)...I think it's an interesting concept, especially since you can program your own open tunings...Now, if Roland had only MIDIfied it, it would be perfect (for more info read the list on http://www.vg-8.com...)!!

Paul