What constitutes a *serious* musician??

[Guest]

Hope I'm not re-hashing something here as I haven't even begun to read through all the threads on this site but after reading through the "Weekend Warrior" thread I couldn't help but ask myself; What actually does constitute a SERIOUS musician anyway?? Any thought's out there??

[Curve Dominant]

It's like being in love, baby. You just know it; and if you have to ask...well, you just don't know, do you? Are you in love? Are you willing to throw it all away? If not, no, you're not serious. The Art is the most jealous mistress you will ever encounter. If you are willing to take the plunge, you will discover secrets of existence that 9-5'ers cannot fathom, but you will pay a price. Like the Samuri, you will live in a sublime, yet lonely, state of harmony with Source Energy. Are you spiritual? If so, you will thrive and prosper on this musical plane. If not, get the hell outta here, or heaven have mercy on your soul. Either way, may peace be unto you.

[Tedster]

Well put, Curve. I remember the very first time probably almost thirty years ago that I plugged a guitar into an amp, and a drummer starting blasting away. I hardly knew anything on the guitar (arguably still don't http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif) but the RUSH! The ENERGY! When it's good, nothing else comes close (it's been bad a time or two as well, but like any other fix, you live for the good ones). I've been a junkie ever since. Spiritual, sexual, physical, mental, artistic, all rolled into one.

 

Hero worship, yep, just like athletes, anyone who's serious about music has wanted to emulate their heroes. Attracting members of the opposite sex? Well, for some of us that was the only way http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif. As acoustic fingerstylist John Fahey put it "I started playing guitar to attract women. Never did attract many women. On the other hand, I learned a helluva lot about the guitar."

 

But, in regards to your other post, Strat, you've got it. If you've got the passion, and the drive to discipline yourself to higher planes, then you're a serious musician. Which brings us to an addendum, what's your definition of success?

 

Sorry for being so long winded...

[alphajerk]

i like to joke around too http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

curve said it best, its like being in love. its the unrelentless passion. an addiction. constant thought. you breathe it, you embrace it, you DO it.

 

oddly i know people who are signed and could give a rats ass less. such a shame and waste of money.

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, I agree y'all, if you live and breathe music, if that's your passion, then you're "serious". And you don't need to put that label on yourself, or covet that label from anybody else. Just do it!

 

"Don't ask what the world needs. Find out what makes you come alive and then go and do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman

[ST.Morigeaugte.net]

It's a physical and emotional addiction.

[Anderton]

...or a biological imperative.

 

Here's how to tell if you're not a serious musician:

 

* You bought a portable keyboard and it's sitting in the closet.

* You'd rather watch TV than play music.

* Your significant other is perfectly satisfied with the amount of time you spend together.

* You change the strings on your guitar once a year.

* You picked up guitar because you wanted to be a hit with the opposite sex.

* You checked out this forum, but got turned off by all the people talking about things other than Christine Aguilera.

[Tedster]

>>Here's how to tell if you're not a serious musician:

 

* You picked up guitar because you wanted to be a hit with the opposite sex.

 

Although, I think that one can still be a serious musician if this was the motive. The difference is: "Did you put down your guitar after you met a satisfactory member of the opposite sex?".

 

I think a lot of folks picked up guitar to impress the opposite sex, but, once we found the said love interest, we realized that there would always be another woman, the one with six strings. And the wives know it, and they're jealous, almost to the point you'd think it was a real, sexual relationship.

 

Lee, do you have this problem with your husband/boyfriend (if he's a non-musician)? Are guys just as bad as women?

[Guest]

Thanks for the replies guys and gals. I really wasn't looking to justify whether or not I am a serious musician, I had already figured out I was and Lee's comments on some other threads only reinforced my opinion on this. I mainly want to know what you, some very professional people who do/used to work full time in the biz think on the matter. For instance, does graduating from GIT (or any of it's affiliates), Juliard etc... automatically make someone proffesional?? Have you ever worked with anyone that had a lot of technical education but you thought was very unproffesional?? Or someone who didn't know what chord they were playing half the time but came accross as very proffesional?? Just curious.

[Lee Flier]

Ted, I have never been married, but all the guys I have dated seriously have been fellow musicians, so it hasn't been an issue. Sometimes we even work together, but at the very least we give each other the space to do our thang.

 

I mentioned once in another thread that I imagine it's far more difficult for guys, because for whatever reason, there are still far fewer women in music than men so there's no way every guy can find a woman who has a clue about what they do. And there are also probably some people who actually appreciate NOT being with another musician, so they can have some semblance of a life besides music. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif But sometimes what happens is you forget that, you forget why you married that person, and start to resent them for making you get a life when you actually wanted a life in the first place.

 

I do know other women in the biz who've dated or married non-musical guys though, and they often have the same problems, the jealousies and all that. It sucks, but you know, if you'd remained single like I have, you still have the same conflicts, with YOURSELF. I haven't played as much the last few years because I wanted to buy a house and build my studio and get my finances more in order and all that stuff. Being a starving artist was getting old. I made MYSELF do it, so I can't blame it on a partner. And I'm really glad I did it, but sometimes I resent MYSELF for focusing less on music! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif So it's not always your old lady's fault, you might have the same problem if you were single, but it would be a lot harder to blame anybody! It plain old is just hard to juggle music with everything else.

 

--Lee

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Stratamatic@aol.com:

I mainly want to know what you, some very professional people who do/used to work full time in the biz think on the matter. For instance, does graduating from GIT (or any of it's affiliates), Juliard etc... automatically make someone proffesional??

 

Egads, no! I know lots of pro's who rag on GIT and its ilk as being the equivalent of a corporate training session, turning out players who are mostly clones of each other or who play a lot of really non-musical stuff in order to show off their technical ability. Sure that isn't always the case, but technical ability and "professionalism" are NOT the same thing!

 

There are lots of things that define "professionalism" depending on what you wanna do in the business. If you just wanna be an artist and be respected for it, you have to love what you're doing, and you have to have enough ability to put that feeling across. There are lots and lots of examples of "stylized" musicians who've never had a lick of technical training, but have so much soul in what they do that you would much rather listen to them than somebody who can play all over the fretboard.

 

If you want to be a session player of course, you have to have enough technical ability to be able to get a song down cold, FAST. That means you probably need some training.

 

Being a producer or engineer, you need a bit of training and a LOT of experience just hanging out in studios and watching pros work, and if you're lucky, helping them work.

 

Then there's attitude. A lot of "artistes" can get away with being real jerks and in fact are kinda expected to be. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Many artists (including producers and engineers) are quirky people who are tough to understand. But a person who could be described as a "professional", like a session player or staff engineer, HAS to have a good attitude and be able to get along with people well, be calm in tough situations, and that sort of thing.

 

So it takes all kinds, and there is no one type of person, degree of training or whatever that would earn you the "professional" label. It just depends what you want to do and whether you can hook up with the right people to do it.

 

--Lee

 

[This message has been edited by Lee Flier (edited 11-15-2000).]

[BP3]

For me, a serious musician is one who -

 

1. can get the intent & emotion of their chosen music style to the listener.

 

2. puts the song above the solos, egos, and themselves.

 

3. is prepared when they record and perform. Having the proper tools at their disposal, be it knowledge of the music (rehearsals), extra guitars for when strings break, etc.

 

4. knows how to recover gracefully when shit happens.

 

5. always listens to everything on stage. Interaction is the key to truly magical moments in music.

 

6. knows that a rest is sometimes the best note of all.

 

[This message has been edited by TinderArts (edited 11-16-2000).]

[Tedster]

About the GIT thing. I know a guy who teaches at GIT (haven't talked to him in years)...

 

I've got a lot of respect for those that go through the programs.

 

That said...I used to be in broadcasting. I hated to see the broadcast curricula at different schools take people who didn't have the right stuff to do broadcasting, take their money, and pronounce them "trained". I think (and I'm a baaaad example) that musicians should constantly do things to broaden their horizons. I'm basically a blues player, although I like a lot of styles. I don't have the speed to be a George Benson or an Yngwie. But maybe I can pick up a little (microscopic) bit of what they do, and incorporate it into my own style. That would make me a better player, and if I could get a few crumbs from a place like GIT, hooray for me.

[Anderton]

People who go to schools may or may not be serious. They may just have rich parents and think that being a musician would be a lark. Or they may have exhausted their resources and are going to school to broaden their horizons.

 

I'm sort of uncomfortable with the term "serious," though. It doesn't get across the joy of being involved in music...I get this mental image of someone peering over their glasses at sheet music and being entirely out of touch with the concept of, say, dancing! Maybe "dedicated" is better, although I think the concept of being involved with music is almost more like a marriage...there's passion, ups, downs, and change. And music is one marriage that is for life.

[Dave Bryce]

Originally posted by Anderton:

...or a biological imperative.

 

I am inclined to agree with this wholeheartedly. I didn't pick being a musician - I had no choice. As a kid, I knew how to work my parent's stereo before I could read.

 

Ever since I can remember, music has been the driving inspirational force in my life. It is woven into just about everything that I do. For me, it is kind of the ultimate lover/friend in that it is ALWAYS there for me, just where I need it, and just how I need it.

 

I've foolishly tried non-musically related occupational endeavors once or twice - never seems to work out very well...

 

dB

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by Anderton:

I'm sort of uncomfortable with the term "serious," though. It doesn't get across the joy of being involved in music...I get this mental image of someone peering over their glasses at sheet music and being entirely out of touch with the concept of, say, dancing!

 

Ahem. What exactly is wrong with peering over my glasses at sheet music, pray tell? I tend to peer through them rather than over them, of course, but even so, I guess I'd like a little respect.

 

If you'll accept that The Well-Tempered Clavier is full-fledged, balls-to-the-wall dance music, then I'll agree that being in touch with dancing is important for any musician. If you can't hear the dancing in WTC, then all I can say is (to quote, um, was it the Troggs?) hey, you, get off of my cloud!

 

--Jim Aikin

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Jim Aikin (edited 11-16-2000).]

[Guest]

Yeah, I was the same way with the stereo when I was a kid. I just wish there would have been more support in the home when I was young and showed a great interest in music. My parents seemed to think ALL musicians were druggy alcoholics that ruined there lives persuing the dream. I also wish someone would have told me when i was a kid that anyone who has the desire can do this thing. For a long time I just fiddled around with an accoustic because I didn't think I could ever really be a good player, I honestly didn't know all it takes is hard work and dedication. Of course I know differently know, I'm 29 and have been a dedicated (just for you Craig) musician for three years and plan on being one for the rest of my life. I encourage everyone I know to let there kids get involved if they show an interest. The funny thing is that so many people have this pre-concieved notion, like my parents did, that musicians are drug addicts, alcoholics, slackers etc.... But the truth that I have found is that the MAJORITY of musicians that I have come to know are the most dedicated group of individuals I have ever met. Funny how people's perception can be so off the mark.

[Guest]

Yeah, I was the same way with the stereo when I was a kid. I just wish there would have been more support in the home when I was young and showed a great interest in music. My parents seemed to think ALL musicians were druggy alcoholics that ruined there lives persuing the dream. I also wish someone would have told me when i was a kid that anyone who has the desire can do this thing. For a long time I just fiddled around with an accoustic because I didn't think I could ever really be a good player, I honestly didn't know all it takes is hard work and dedication. Of course I know differently know, I'm 29 and have been a dedicated (just for you Craig) musician for three years and plan on being one for the rest of my life. I encourage everyone I know to let there kids get involved if they show an interest. The funny thing is that so many people have this pre-concieved notion, like my parents did, that musicians are drug addicts, alcoholics, slackers etc.... But the truth that I have found is that the MAJORITY of musicians that I have come to know are the most dedicated group of individuals I have ever met. Funny how people's perception can be so off the mark.

[Lee Flier]

Jim: "Get Off of My Cloud" was the Rolling Stones.

 

Strat: I hear ya. I heard the "slacker drug addict" line many times myself as I'm sure we all have. And that just reinforces the idea that music is not all that important a thing, if we choose to take all that in.

 

One thing that it's important to do IMO is to separate your love for your parents just cuz they're your parents, from the fact that they're just people and they have their own set of value judgements just like anybody else. I would never let my parents be the judge of what I do because they're simply unqualified to judge. So their opinion of my music doesn't count for much. On the other hand, I would greatly respect Keith Richards' opinion of me as a musician but I'm glad that he wasn't responsible for changing my diapers. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

--Lee

[Jim Aikin]

Originally posted by Lee Flier:

Jim: "Get Off of My Cloud" was the Rolling Stones.

 

Stones, Troggs, Fugs ... I knew it was somebody important. Not to diss the Stones, who were far and away the best of the lot even then, but at this distance in time, one snotty '60s pop song sounds a lot like another.

 

Anybody remember, "Come on, people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now"? Who did that one? Buffalo Springfield?

 

--JA

[alphajerk]

well my dad went out on tour with the rolling stones so he KNEW musicians were druggy alcoholicks.

 

earliest recount of telling my parents i was going to be a musician i was like 8 i think walking through a parking lot telling them i already had a named picked out [jabberwocky] for the band i was going to form. lots of bands later [jabberwocky never materialized] i decided i didnt want to be a rock star as soon as i stepped behind the glass.

 

my family wasnt [and still isnt really] supportive of my choice [if you could call it a choice] to do music wondering how i was ever going to make money at it. *see weekend warrior thread about justification. mind you i put coke addicts to shame with what i spend on equipment but it least i still have it and didnt snort it up my nose [that would hurt].

 

anyways, still doing it all these years later. maybe one day i will actually be good at it http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif better yet actually make some serious money so i can quit doing something that im highly overpaid to do [that god for the internet] nah, ill never make that much with music and i gotta feed my habit, plus my family's mouths.

[Tedster]

hehe...It was The Youngbloods, Jim http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

But, I'll confess, you are probably infinitely more qualified to comment on Dvorak than I.

 

I have heard folks say the same about classical music (you've heard one cantata, you've heard them all)...

 

What it boils down to is what kind of music do you like? What turns your crank? Bach or Beck? My parents liked classical and showtunes. I liked rock. My son likes classical. Now, I like everything, well, almost everything.

 

And, there is snobbery in every style of music. There are classical snobs, jazz snobs, even blues snobs. Those who consider that if someone doesn't read it off a sheet written by some person who's been dead for 150 years, it's not music. Those who figure if it's not played acoustically, it's not music...if it's not played through a wall of Marshalls, has a fiddle or pedal steel, if you can dance to it...

 

WHATTHEFUCK! It's all music! If it floats your boat, it's cool! If it was written by Brahms or sounds like your dog farted it, if YOU like it, it's cool! A lot of snobs at FSU school of music liked Charles Ives. I hate Charles Ives, sounds like three radio stations each playing something different in different keys at the same time to me. But, they like it, so to them it's cool. Same with Philip Glass. Sounds like a kid banging on a toy piano to me...ridiculous. But, if you like it, fine!

[Lee Flier]

Originally posted by Jim Aikin:

Stones, Troggs, Fugs ... I knew it was somebody important.

 

Heheh... the Fugs were great! That song "Nothing" was awesome.

 

Anybody remember, "Come on, people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together, try to love one another right now"? Who did that one? Buffalo Springfield?

 

Nah I think the Youngbloods. Not one of my favorites.

[Tedster]

Oh, and to lambast everyone equally, along the Charles Ives line, I classify what we used to call "chair-throwing jazz" like Pharoah Sanders, and even some of John Coltrane's later stuff. Atonal. But who am I to tell anyone what art should be? I am only qualified to judge what I do or don't like...