Country Music- It sucks.

[Faeflora]

Hi everyone. I saw the post at: http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum13/HTML/000108.html and decided to start this new thread.

 

So, is Country music that bad?

 

Maybe this educated or as Fletcher coined it, "edumukated" group of musically talented or affiliated group of people can discern why so many people diss the popular country genre.

 

I read somewhere that more country albums sell than any other type of music in the US. How do you engineers feel about engineering country music? Who here thinks the music sucks? Why does it annoy or piss you off? And, those of you who enjoy country, why do you like it and what do you get from it?

 

Personally, I ignore pop culture because I actually like to think for myself and don't really like to be shovel-stuffed with FM radio MTV or VH1. Occasionally I do turn on the radio and listen to different stations when I feel like a 'new' experience. A bit ago I listened to some country for a set (get it? set=sit or set=series of songs? hahahaha http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif ) and thought it wasn't -that- bad. All the songs sounded the same but so did all the songs on the rock and r&b station. BTW, I was suprised to hear subbase in the songs. I thought that country mixes would be more midrange pronounced.

 

F.

 

[This message has been edited by Faeflora (edited 11-07-2000).]

 

[This message has been edited by Faeflora (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Uh Clem]

Why do we have to keep having posts about one genre or another of music sucking?

 

You'll find the bell curve alive and well across almost any type of music, art, or endeavor of any sort.

 

To not be able to "get" what is going on at the high side of the curve only shows a lack of sophistication and inability to appreciate what is being done.

 

I've felt this way in the past about Opera, Country, Rap, Jazz and probably some other types I can't think of right off. What sucks is my musical comprehension and if I work on it and study up, It usually sucks less.

 

 

Its like learning to eat your vegetables - eventually you get most of them down if you live long enough http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif.

[Tedster]

Good analogy about the vegetables, Steve. I remember when I was a youngster. I hated country...it was rock and roll or die. I was at a college radio station playing all kinds of cool experimental stuff. Then, I got a job in commercial radio. Guess what kind of station it was? They played both kinds of music, country AND western... hehehehehe... I figured, "Either I can hate this and get depressed, or I can learn to like it".

 

What I've found is that it's not for me the genre as much as the song. There's a lot of rock, blues, jazz, country, even classical, that in my mind's ear, plain sucks. But a good song or composition is just that, no matter what the genre. I am annoyed by overcommercialization more than anything, though, making a CD just for the sole sake of having "mass appeal" (GAG).

 

BTW, for my dollar, one of the best video programs on TV is CMT's "Jammin' Country". They let the renegades have their say, and they don't stick to any rules. Good job, CMT! I mean, where else are you gonna see John Hiatt, John Prine, Asleep at the Wheel, and a host of other borderline country/rock/folk artists!

[Guest]

Check out this thread for more country love/hate-stuff: http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000145.html

 

 

Richard http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Fletcher]

Originally posted by Faeflora:

I read somewhere that more country albums sell than any other type of music in the US. How do you engineers feel about engineering country music? Who here thinks the music sucks? Why does it annoy or piss you off? And, those of you who enjoy country, why do you like it and what do you get from it?

 

 

Funny, people make blanket 'Hip-Hop Sucks' statements as well, but not all of it does. In the late 70's...it was 'Disco Sucks', and after Garth Brooks sold a couple of records, 'Country Sucks' became the battle cry of the disenfranchised.

 

There is a ton of 'modern country' that is nothing more than "Middle of the road" schlock with some pedal steel. On the other hand, there are some absolutely brilliant artists that have come from the genre.

 

If you haven't heard "Buddy [&/or] Julie Miller", "The Kentucky Headhunters", "The Swingin' Steaks"...if you havn't seen a 'Travis Tritt or Clint Black' show...you really don't have a whole lot of basis for a "country sucks" stance...you're ignorant of some of the finer jewels within the genre.

 

My wife made an interesting comment a few years ago..."the only place you can find rock and roll these days is on the country radio stations"...interesting thought ain't it?

 

[FWIW, I really like engineering anything with a good song and an emotional performance, this includes "country"]

-----

Fletcher

Mercenary Audio http://www.mercenary.com

[Guest]

Originally posted by stevepow:

Why do we have to keep having posts about one genre or another of music sucking?

 

I second this motion!

 

Originally posted by stevepow:

You'll find the bell curve alive and well across almost any type of music, art, or endeavor of any sort.

 

It's all music and up to personal taste. Some post are really insulting to the intellect of people who for geographical and/or cultural reason have grown up with a certain type of music and thus have grown to appreciate it.

 

To me the goal is to free myself of the "restrictions" placed on me be having grown up the way I have so I can appreciate as many different subcategories of music as possible. Because in the end, it is all music.

 

One activity that has helped me gain a larger understanding is traveling on a budget. It makes you go to places you wouldn't consider beforehand and makes you experience a lot of wonderful things.

 

Best regards,

 

Mats Nermark

[Tiny G]

For those of us who know the influence the record companies have on song writers, Alan Jackson's new album has a cut called "Three Minute Positive Not Too Country Uptempo Love Song"

It takes a pretty good, light-hearted poke at country radio today.

 

If every record company is asking for it from their artists, don't be so quick to blame the artist for making records that sound like everyone else.

 

------------------

Tiny G

[Guest]

I grew up listening to the beatles, jethro tull, the who, etc. what I think happened is that the common masses ( of which I am a member in good standing), didn't wanna have to think anymore... too many issues,too much discussion. and I think that was the attraction of disco in the beginning. whereas (is that one word?)the music of today, pop/country is disco rendered down. you can dance, you can sing along, you can relate, but you don't have to get profoundly involved. As a musician/songwriter ( emphasis on songwriter these days) I do appreciate what people like mutt lange have brought to the table with country music ( I will probably get some hate mail for that comment), mainly because it opened the door

for the type of songs I write, minus the pop factor.I do not write pop music and previously had trouble getting my publisher to pitch my songs to the country music sector.

 

[This message has been edited by jpalndar@aol.com (edited 11-07-2000).]

[Guest]

Originally posted by jpalndar@aol.com:

I do appreciate what people like mutt lange have brought to the table with country music ( I will probably get some hate mail for that comment), mainly because it opened the door

for the type of songs I write, minus the pop factor.

.]

 

c'mon guys, it's been over three hours since I posted this. I expected somebody to rip me up by now.

JP

[Guest]

After living in Nashville for several years now, and working full time in the music industry ... I have a hard time believing that "Country Music" is the biggest seller ????

 

I've seen the ups and downs and listen to the industry bitch every day about what a slump Country is experiencing as of lately.

 

In the early 90's if you weren't Sheryl Crow or Hootie and the Blow Fish you just didn't get played on the radio. As a person who HAS to have major doses of NEW music on a regular basis, I did found myself listening to Country just for an outlet for NEW music. Gratefully it's all changing again.

 

Russ

[Faeflora]

Ok, before any credibility I might have goes poo-poo let me explain why I titled this thread this way.

 

Mostly, it was for silly humor. I didn't mean to write a blanket statement or a general diss.

 

When I ask most people of ages ~15-40 what type of music they listen to they respond, "anything but country". I've heard that many many times. They react as if the country genre as a whole "sucks". I expected that others have heard this statement so I phrased the title of this thread like this. I didn't mean a diss.

 

And, about the electronic music thread, I think I explained myself on that thread as well. My motive was simmilar to this thread; a lot of engineers and musicians I have encountered think that electronic music is not respectable.

 

I did phrase the title of these threads a little negatively. If any moderator wants to omit the "sucks" from the thread title go ahead please. I also wasn't trolling, but I did want to make the thread noticable because I feel these are interesting topics.

 

AND I didn't start this thread to discuss how you engineer country music (although I am curious) as much as to talk about people's emotional reactions to this genre. As I wrote above, most people's reactions are unfavorable.

 

___

 

I agree with some of the posts written here. Good music is good music. Fantastic compositions, fantastic musicianship, and fantastic engineering is fantastic. Personally, after getting into music 'engineering' and composing I began to hear a lot more in the songs I listened to than the emotional feeling. I began to hear the sequences or arrangement, and the quality and nuances of the recording.

[nhcomp45aol.com]

If it is good I like it. when my stereo goes on it plays the Beatles, Al Jolson, Al Jarreau, Doobie Brothers, Bobby Caldwell, Yankee Grey, The Carpenters, Basia, Beach Boys, Outlaws, ETC. Some of todays country sounds so much like 70s southern rock how could you not like it.

[Anderton]

>>Why do we have to keep having posts about one genre or another of music sucking?<<

 

I think it's mostly to serve as a springboard for discussion. I think the more complete query is actually quite good:

 

>>I read somewhere that more country albums sell than any other type of music in the US. How do you engineers feel about engineering country music? Who here thinks the music sucks? Why does it annoy or piss you off? And, those of you who enjoy country, why do you like it and what do you get from it?<<

 

I do like some country music, what everyone says about music following a bell curve is no revelation, and I certainly agree. Country music has a much better sense of humor and self-deprecation than rock or dance music, I believe, both of which can take themselves pretty darn seriously. And some of the playing is downright killer.

[Anderton]

A lot of people forget about the symbiotic relationship between rock and country. Elvis Presley synthesized country music and "race" music (terms like that remind me that we have made some social progress!!), in fact a lot of 50s rock and roll crossed the line over to country. Ditto the Beatles -- tunes like "Honey Don't" and George Harrison's hyper-obvous Chet Atkins influences speak for themselves. The Byrds did Sweetheart of the Rodeo - a whole CD of country - which led to the Flying Burrito Brothers. And Garth Brooks certainly has incorporated a lot of the rock ethic into his playing.

 

For all the flack Brooks gets, I was channel surfing once and saw him on a show with nothing more than voice and guitar, and he was damn good. How many rockers could do that?

[Guest]

I agree Craig - It's funny the way people knock country. About 1995 I came across a 17yr old girl country singer who sang with her father (gtr) mother (bass) and Brother (guitar) called the Dead Ringer Band. Last year she released her first country album and received the ARIA award for best country album. This year she won the ARIA ALBUM OF THE YEAR!!! (all genres) (Highest award in OZ) Yet all those mainstream rockers in black would say "don't like country".... but they love her.

 

I just don't get it.

 

Her name is Casey Chambers - check her out, she's coming your way - she's great, and she's definitely country.

 

cheers

John

[alphajerk]

john, is she hot?

 

most cuntry chicks are pretty damn hot [till they open their mouth, then you gotta shove something in it real quick before they start drawlin on and on]

 

 

i think the thread title was hilarious.

 

country music is probably the most redundant form of music right beside the blues. neither take extreme talent once you got the main licks down.

[Guest]

Yeah she's hot alpha, when she opens her mouth, and she does often, she's friendly, smart and down to earth but not earthy, she has all the great country influences in her style, yeah I love her and so do all Aussies at the mo.

 

Don't know if they'll push her as country or more mainstream after her recent award. But she's being handled out of Nashville.

 

Yeah I know about the redundency...but when was the last time they changed the Big Mac? Country music is for people who live in the country *Duh*. It's all in the lyric, singing and playing style like every other genre. You can add reggae to the list.

 

Maybe someone should write the country and reggae versions of your blues post http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

cheers

John

 

[This message has been edited by johnsay@lis.net.au (edited 11-08-2000).]

[Tedster]

Okay, here I go, setting myself up, but listening to old country (Hank Williams, and some of the stuff that was out at that time), basically what country was was white blues. And really, it still is. The premise is the same. Cheatin' drinkin', chasin' women, going to jail, crying in your beer. And for those who call country redundant, well, listen to blues. I-IV-V 12 bars. Hey, I love the blues. There's a lot of country I don't mind either. And as for asking kids what kind of music they like, sure, if you're asking in L.A. or downtown Detroit, you won't get a lot of country answers. Kinda interesting though, I live in the Kansas City area. Go downtown and all you hear is blues and jazz. Set one foot outside the city limits, and a LOT of teenagers have Toby Keith crankin' on their CD. Nosirree, country is alive and well. And for those who think the licks are simple, listen to Brad Paisley's "Me Neither". Geeez, that song boogies and the guitar playing kicks total rear end. And a funny thing, the "classic rock" stations won't even touch material these days that features instrumental prowess of almost any kind, and yet with that Paisley tune, you get a somewhat extended piano, fiddle, and guitar solo (maybe steel, too). I'd much rather hear some interesting musicianship than Foreigner's "Cold as Ice" for the 18 billionth time...

[Guest]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

john, is she hot?

 

most cuntry chicks are pretty damn hot [till they open their mouth, then you gotta shove something in it real quick before they start drawlin on and on]

 

Gee....... and to think I had wundered why you had chosen 'Alpha Jerk' as a username.

 

I agree with most of these posts, country music should be lauded for the continued contribution to all music genre.. there have been and will be many more styles that come and go... Country and Blues will definitely continue to thrive.

[kent_powellpalmercay.com]

Unlike so many posters, allow me to answer the thread question first. Yes. Yes it does. And no, not all of it. I'm not that small-minded. Please to explain, please, yes?

 

The music itself can be beautiful. I learned this from Elvis Costello. The difficulty I have in listening to most Nashville product has to do with hats, boots, yodeling, and (sometimes fake, right Garth?) hick accents. In other words, a cultural barrier. The same barrier prevents me from enjoying a lot of music as much as its intended audience does. The same is true for hip-hop, electronica, metal, that music they play at the Indian restaurant that sounds like someone's beating a baby with a cat, etc. Because I don't drive a truck with a rifle-rack and I can't talk or sing like that with a straight (Strait?) face, it's not for me. Doesn't mean I don't respect others right to enjoy it if it's their cup of white lightnin'.

[Tedster]

Yeah, the fake hick accents...but...

 

I read an interview with John Fogerty not too long ago, reminiscing about his old CCR days and (every wedding band's most hated request) "Proud Mary"...well..."Big Wheel keep on toynin'" etc....Fogerty was consciously trying to copy the "accent" of one of his ole' Delta Blues heroes. Fogerty's certainly not the only one. A lot (one could possibly say "most") of the early white rock and roll singers were trying to sound black. Yep, it miffs me when I hear a country band from Canada singing "Ah thank ah oughta drank another bayeer, eh?", but they're just trying to emulate their heroes. And taking the reverse side of that, how about the endless string of radio DJs that consciously their natural redneck twang artificially to score a gig on the radio?

[Faeflora]

Originally posted by kent_powell@palmercay.com:

Unlike so many posters, allow me to answer the thread question first. Yes. Yes it does. And no, not all of it. I'm not that small-minded. Please to .

 

Ok, since you're the first poster to actually admit that they think countpry sucks http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif, what type of music do YOU enjoy and listen to regularly?

 

Personally, I don't listen to that many genres of music. I mostly listen to industrial, classical, and some rock (many types of rock).

 

Therefore, I really have only ecountered the middle of the "bell" with country music. My feelings about the stuff I hear? Country music makes me wanna stuff my arm down my throat, grab my duodenum and rip myself inside out. I can't stand the whiny, throaty singing with auto-chorus. I also can't stand the same old guitar sound on every song, and the stupid, stupid stupid, stupid stupid and dumb uncreative predictable lyrics about piddly meaningless day to day trivial(ized) petty booring shit.

 

Argh, I know that the lyrics can be inane in every genre, but country lyrics and R&B love songs are the f***ing worst. I'm getting revolted thinking about it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/redface.gif

 

[This message has been edited by Faeflora (edited 11-08-2000).]

[alphajerk]

"Gee....... and to think I had wundered why you had chosen 'Alpha Jerk' as a username"

 

oh come on, you can come up with something a little more creative than that. certainly not the first to say it.

 

maybe one day you will know what an alphajerk is... but you arent even close.

[kent_powellpalmercay.com]

Faeflora:

"Country music makes me wanna stuff my arm down my throat, grab my duodenum and rip myself inside out."

 

Well, I can see we're soul brothers...Pardner!

 

A local radio station pokes fun at Garth. Recently they were deriding his self-styled heroism when he drove some people to safety as their house was burning. The station did a hilarious bit about a kid on fire trapped and calling for help while Garth writes and sings a song for him on the spot. "Ah'll help yuh...through song! (sings) Burnin' boy trapped under wood, Burnin' up in you nei-ay-borhood!" With that big stupid fake country lilt in the middle of "neighborhood".

[nhcomp45aol.com]

Well I guess American rock singers are original. None of them have ever coppied The Beatles, The Who, The Stones, The Kinks, Mott The Hoople, Bowie, King Krimson, Genisis etc.

[Guest]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!

[Lee Flier]

Well gee, guys. I like country. A lot of it! I love the old stuff... Hank Williams, Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings, Patsy Cline, early Dolly Parton, Loretta Lynn, Conway Twitty. Some of the younger country dudes like Ricky Skaggs, Dwight Yoakum, Steve Earle, and the Mavericks are cool too. And I'm a big Emmylou Harris fan - not only is she incredibly talented in her own right but she tends to get the "cream of the crop" musicians on her records.

 

And speaking of cream of the crop, for those who are rock fans looking for some country they might be able to appreciate, check out the late great Gram Parsons. He only made two solo records and they are both available on one CD - and you need to get it! Gram had a great voice which does not tend to irritate most rock fans http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif , he was an amazing songwriter and also had a tendency to work with great musicians (including Emmylou).

 

People like Garth Brooks, I wouldn't call him real country. He's kinda the pop idol, generic country star. Maybe the Bon Jovi of country. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif I wouldn't use him as an example!

 

Others are right on when they say country music is like blues for white folks, and that it contributed heavily to the development of rock. It bugs me when people say simple forms of music like country, folk, blues, reggae and early rock are "redundant" or "unoriginal" or whatever, because that's pretty much how they're supposed to be. The idea behind "poor folks' music" is that anyone should be able to play it, and it usually speaks to the problems common to poor folks, or to the human condition in general. It's community music; the point is not to impress but to share. With such a primary palette to work with, the emotion and character of the performance is everything. If you're listening only for technical wizardry, you'll probably miss the point.

 

Of course, just because anybody CAN play it doesn't mean there aren't some people who are much better at it than others. The best country musicians, especially some of the guitar and fiddle and banjo players, are mind blowing.

 

I have engineered on quite a few country projects and enjoyed it plenty. The people tend to be professional, the level of musicianship high and they like it when you get the kind of acoustically happening, organic live sounds that tend to get us engineers excited. They really appreciate that. And that's more than I can say for a lot of crappy rock bands I have worked with. Sometimes it can get too polished and really lame, like any other overly commercialized form of music, but the good stuff is still really good, and fun to engineer.

 

Like Craig says, probably the coolest thing about country is it generally doesn't take itself very seriously. And on that note, I'll close with a joke:

 

Q. What happens when you play a country record backwards?

 

A. You get your job back, you get your baby back, you get out of prison, and you quit drinkin'.

 

--Lee

 

 

[This message has been edited by Lee Flier (edited 11-08-2000).]

[alphajerk]

"Well I guess American rock singers are original. None of them have ever coppied The Beatles, The Who, The Stones, The Kinks, Mott The Hoople, Bowie, King Krimson, Genisis etc."

 

 

uh, you got it backwards. all those DID copy americans. and they all admit it.

[nhcomp45aol.com]

Everyone coppied someone and they all will admit it

[Guest]

Who are any of us to pass judgement to the point that we would say: Country Music- It Sucks? I have the good fortune to know and hang with many country artist and even more of the musicians that back the artist. The majority of these musicians are musically educated well beyond many of their rock (and other music genre) peers.

Many folks like to poke fun at Country because this musical genre usually tells a story through song (as opposed to many rock songs that repeat the same line over, and over, and over again!

Want to get truly entertained? Go see Brooks and Dunn live! Want to get your socks rocked off? Go see The Dixie Chicks live! Want to see the consumate musician? Take in Vince Gil live! Need proof? Check out Lyle Lovett!

Not all Country Music is "cryin' in your beer music", just as ... not all rock music is about how many women and drugs you can "do"!

Learn to embrace all musical genres and appreciate each artist for his/her individual talents. Come on guys ... where's the love!?!