Is The Average Consumer....?

[jso6mailcity.com]

Is the Average music consumer satisfied with a certain level of quality that is very much lower than what we aspire or maintain and frankly, are they fed up that they just want to stay where they're at?

 

This might not be the right forum for this but....

This thread of thought occurred to me while reading the posts and replies in this forum, Napster, MP3.com and MP3 mania, Where are the Guitar/Keyboard heroes, Does it sell because it sucks, museum of dead technology, etc. etc.,

 

Why would people bother to listen to MP3

when CDs are available? Why would people bother to listen to tapes when CDs are available? or Why would people bother to listen to CDs when DVDs will be commonplace? If they say they hit Napster to preview a CD would they really buy one to own, when they already enjoy listening to it from their hard drives maybe like in those chat rooms in the NET, they're just lying to the teeth. Is listening pleasure limited to K$$$$ systems in living rooms and not in PA systems in airports, elevators, cheezy radios in the corner store or car? Can the average listener discern the difference between MP3 and CDA like normal and chrome cassettes? A large portion of "us" would buy CDs actually for "research" & "study" purposes.

 

Would they care if Clint Black's album was recorded in digital with a high sheen or did they even bother when Neil Young whined that digital didn't have the warmth?

Granting that labels are pushing a lot of mediocre artists and they do sell a lot, does that show that the discerning listener is not the average one? Where are our heroes?, does the lack of them mean the quality of musicianship we hear in mainstream products is much lesser and since consumers just gobble them up meaning they're satisfied with it?

Are they sort of fed up at us for the moment, next to CD is DVD 5.1 audio, they'll have to invest in new equipment when they are satisfied with CDs or (egad) MP3? VCDs are very much in abundance in Asia despite the quality difference from DVD because they are much, much more cheaper (PnP3,000 DVD vs PnP300 or PnP150 for pirated VCD).

Granted that Napster has already fatally shot not just the Record Biz but the entire copyright concept, it just reflects the current trend of ripping-offs, product design, programs, pictures, Movies are definitely next? Has Commercialism made music a lot less relevant to the consumer? therefore making them compromise on quality? Is the abundance of products, in this fast moving technological drive, make products relevant only if it cannot be acquired free or cheap?

Would saying that any guy competent with a sequencer can do that (MP3.com hotshot) make him seem like "all I have is a red guitar, 3 chords and the truth"?

 

Am I still working in an irrelevant and dying Biz which will end up giving products for free and making money only in shows where musicians play stuff knocked-off from other 3 chord songs and recorded by kids with cheap supercomputers in their bedrooms using ripped off programs and plug-ins?

 

The net is moving so much faster than government can police, (love bug creator cannot be prosecuted because in the Phil. no crime was committed because we have no laws against it) Can an "Internet gov't" (and there will definitely be one) be able to stop a virtual exchange of stories, ripping off books and movies because their is no physical evidence?

I seem to be rambling here!!

So is the Average music consumer fed up and satisfied with a certain level of quality that is very much lower than what we aspire or maintain?

[Uh Clem]

Wow you do go on, but I'm game

 

Is the Average music consumer satisfied with a certain level of quality that is very much lower than what we aspire or maintain and frankly, are they fed up that they just want to stay where they're at?

 

Well theres that bell curve and someone has to be on the left side by definition that still leaves potentially 50% that might give a damn. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Why would people bother to listen to MP3

when CDs are available?

 

Convenience is a good reason and MP3 sounds about as good as FM radio and you have more variety than radio gives you. It's a very easy way to check out new material. As bandwidth improves and MP3 compression goes away, it gets even better.

 

Consumers need real advantage to want to switch better sound, easy track location, portability, uninterrupted listening, and lower entry costs have all helped move the CD forward.

 

Granted that Napster has already fatally shot not just the Record Biz but the entire copyright concept, it just reflects the current trend of ripping-offs, product design, programs, pictures,

 

I hope this is not true sometimes large scale crimes take a while to bring under control and hopefully many people are just not criminals. If we educate people to realize it is a crime to steal music, then we help the honest people do the right thing. This has been a problem in the software industry for a long time. Education and awareness have helped somewhat.

 

So is the Average music consumer fed up and satisfied with a certain level of quality that is very much lower than what we aspire or maintain?

 

Probably not, but again, people need to see real value to adopt new technology. DVD can offer more than 2-channel stereo. The new Steely Dan DVD is a good example that can not only play in three formats, but also provides a more intimate fan experience thru video and other information on the disc. I am not sure that adding a few xtra bits of audio is going to hit consumers over the head even experts have differing opinions on benefits of 24/96, UV22, etc. - even digital recording in general, so it is not reasonable to expect a consensus among consumers.

 

I do think over time as advances become cumulative, people will look back and think CD quality is not so great, much like people commonly view analog cassettes. Technology can help that you can actually get really nice analog cassette decks and make tapes that sound really great but the expense of the equipment (price check a TASCAM MKIII) is so much more than the equivalent quality on a CD player, that most people now opt for CDs.

 

Pushing the envelope is worthwhile I think any other attitude and wed still be living in caves.

 

 

------------------

Steve Powell

Bull Moon Digital

Atlanta GA

music is a problem for everyone

you could hear things differently

www.mp3.com/stations/bullmoondigital

 

[This message has been edited by stevepow (edited 08-11-2000).]

[Doug Robinson]

You said a mouthful! Here are some short answers to complex questions:

 

<

 

"Very much lower" than what we aspire to?

I don't think so, but I don't know what you think "we" are all aspiring to. If a new format comes along that I think absolutely blows away a well-recorded CD, I may be interested myself. But I've maintained all along that it's the talent, not the tools. Mixing a song in 5.1 that doesn't necessarily need it is no smarter or hipper than throwing a big fat backbeat into a jazz tune to make it easier to dance to. If it serves the music, fine. If not, forget it.

 

<

when CDs are available?>>

 

Steve handled this nicely: convenience. Man, my international friends and I are constantly checking out each others' new songs via MP3s. I could care less that they can't hear every erg of sonic beauty I've squeezed out of my equipment--I came to peace with the realization years ago that people are always going to hear things differently at different times, on different equipment, even with different emotional factors. I have as little control over this as I do about a plane flying over their heads right during a killer piano solo.

 

By the way, forget about MP3s. Think of how good MP7s are going to sound.

 

<< Why would people bother to listen to tapes when CDs are available?>>

 

Because they have them, which is why I pull one out every now and then.

 

<

 

Lots of reasons, but mostly because they have them already. Once you get over 40, any attempt to make you hate your precious collection and rebuild it in the latest/greatest new format sounds awfully suspicious. I still have my doubts about how "commonplace" audio DVDs are going to be. Most CD albums are badly stuffed to fill up the available space anyway. Who is to say that even most of the extra stuff (music, video, etc) which will have to be produced to fill a DVD will add any real value at all? Who is to say other than the manufacturers, of course.

 

<< If they say they hit Napster to preview a CD would they really buy one to own, when they already enjoy listening to it from their hard drives maybe like in those chat rooms in the NET, they're just lying to the teeth.>>

 

Not necessarily. But I do think eventually, more and more people who prefer listening to music at their computer will get a little more honest when asked if they intend to buy many of the albums they are sampling.

 

<< Is listening pleasure limited to K$$$$ systems in living rooms and not in PA systems in airports, elevators, cheezy radios in the corner store or car?>>

 

My 29 year old techno assistant hasn't listened to a stereo other than his computer or car in months. He has adjusted to the systems he's exposed to.

 

<< Can the average listener discern the difference between MP3 and CDA like normal and chrome cassettes?>>

 

As well-recorded MP3? I would be very surprised, especially if you're playing them back on a computer.

 

<

 

Only if it sounded extremely good or extremely bad. Otherwise, they buy those things for the music itself.

 

<

 

You're kidding, right? "Discerning" people are not the average in any area: food, film, marriage, etc.

 

<

 

Some are, but there are enough of us discerning folk to create a parallel movement which supports quality art.

 

<

 

The leap wouldn't be from MP3s to DVD---let's not confuse the point. You listen to DVDs on the best possible systems, in order to get what you paid for. But yes, I do think the public is very likely to throw up all over this next wave of "You've got to start all over." Backwards compatibility isn't enough, if the product isn't perceived as wildly better.

 

<

 

Yes, I think so.

 

<< therefore making them compromise on quality?>>

 

Yes again. Brilliantly recorded shit is still shit.

 

<>

 

If you are attempted to get signed by a major label, then yes.

[jso6mailcity.com]

It's quite reassuring to hear your comments guys, I just got a bit disheartened with all these trends but its true brilliant shit is still shit, and I may need to strengthen my faith in the average consumer. I can't begin to imagine the SD DVDs when the original cassettes I have is already soooo good I have a hard time comparing newer stuff on CDs to them. It's also because of the really great players in them. I do believe that the record Biz as it has been the past century is indeed dead or at least dying and we'll end up giving and getting music from the net in the near future (MPx anyone?) and make money in live shows. But then, before the advent of recording, music has always been a performing art and live performance is still the true measure of the artistry. As for record labels, I've been there, I've had my two albums released from BMG Pilipinas and I made money from it albeit not as much as they did. We are indeed in a rennaissance where a lot of developments that certainly affect this industry will be made by talented individuals in the NET whether for the good or not!! But whatever happens in the music Biz, will certainly impact on the other arts, movies, painting, pictures, prose etc. I certainly agree with alphajerk when he said the advent of CDR is more damaging!!! I guess that's why Phillips and Sony did not introduce CDs with duplication features like cassettes but intead only like vinyl.

It is true that we have to educate the consumers!! Are there more rip-off artists lurking inside those average consumer or are there more principled ones? It still boils down to faith.....

joel...

[alphajerk]

if i were trying to outright scam the industry, i wouldnt be doing it with mp3's. a CD image is at max 650MB which is really not that much considering highspeed access that a LOT of people now have. pure uncompressed exact copy of the CD in question.

 

mp3 is a conspiracy started by the RIAA. its really their big entrance to the web. nothing like a brawl to spur FREE marketing. and its really their fault they didnt put copyprotection inbedded.

 

 

oh, and i preview MP3's to buy the cd if i can actually find the cd. dont call me a liar http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Anderton]

There's one very encouraging aspect to the acceptance of distribution media that don't sound good (MP3 etc.): It shows that content remains more important than fidelity. This should give hope to those who don't have the latest/greatest gear, but do have a good musical idea.

 

I think in general, as a community we have become too concerned with the quality of the sound, and not of the performance. This may come about because we can measure sound quality, but not emotional impact. There is something that gets recorded when someone is really "on fire" that seems to go away if you try to polish it too much. I mean, is there any more durable recording -- or one with a crappier sound -- than "Louie Louie"? It may have been distorted and noisy, but it dripped attitude. Here we are wondering about the last 1/4 dB of response from a mic pre, when we should be worrying about how to get a better performance out of the vocalist.

 

Unsophisticated listeners will always listen to content first, fidelity second. This isn't necessarily bad, if it means better content! I'd rather listen to Jimi Hendrix recorded on a 4-track cassette than a Hendrix imitator recorded in digital surround.

 

As to why consumers are so willing to embrace boy bands etc...well, think of it this way. We're musicians, so we know music. Now suppose you have a dog. It may be a very friendly, cool, loyal dog that was a mongrel of unknown origin. Someone who breeds dogs for a living would think you have pretty unsophisticated tastes. All you know is the dog is housebroken, would take a bullet for you, and loves to run around on the beach and have a good time. There's nothing really wrong with an "MP3 dog" if it has soul.

[alphajerk]

yea, but i doubt the backstreet boys would take a bullet for shit.

 

but youre right, i have carried around a cassette tapes everywhere of some badass music playing it for everybody and it was the only copy i had or could get [especially when its some freaky shit you cant find in stores]. some sounded like shit but you could feel the emotion on it.

 

in fact thats the main problem with mainstream music right now, NO FRICKEN EMOTION.

[Guest]

There's nothing really wrong with an "MP3 dog" if it has soul.[/b]

 

I don't know where you get it from but I love it!

 

Yours respectfully,

 

Mats Nermark

[Doug Robinson]

But Craig, half of those boy bands probably aren't even housebroken.

 

<,But then, before the advent of recording, music has always been a performing art and live performance is still the true measure of the artistry.>>

 

Um...no, it's merely the true measure of the artistry of "performing." Was George Martin not a superior arranger/producer, just because he didn't gig around and sell t-shirts in clubs? Let's not get carried away--other possibilities have evolved. Just because music was strictly a performing art before the invention of recording doesn't mean that there aren't valid ways to be an artist a century later.

 

If you need more convincing, think about acting, which was always performed live until fairly recently. Wouldn't you agree that there are many great movie makers who have created unique and previously impossible artistic accomplishments?

[Anderton]

>>Um...no, it's merely the true measure of the artistry of "performing." Was George Martin not a superior arranger/producer, just because he didn't gig around and sell t-shirts in clubs? Let's not get carried away--other possibilities have evolved.<<

 

Like the thread on "Are DJs Musicians?" Yes, there are a lot of ways to measure musicality these days. I agree that live performance is definitely some kind of ultimate musical experience when done right; you can't duplicate that vibe on a CD. On the other hand, it would be difficult to duplicate live what I do on CD. I love the phrase "appropriate media" -- use the right tool for the right job. There just happen to be a lot of tools these days!

 

But getting back to the topic...it's important to remember that a lot of "music consumers" can't even pick out, say, a bass part from a piece of music. Their approach to music is very naive ("I know what I like") and you can't really blame them; their expertise probably lies in some other field (unless, of course, they have the IQ of a banana slug and have no expertise in anything anyway). I don't see a problem with making music that pleases these people...just don't make me listen to it .

[Doug Robinson]

it's a well-known fact that many banana slugs have every CD every recorded by Kenny G. Hey, I'm just saying...

[Anderton]

Originally posted by Doug Robinson:

it's a well-known fact that many banana slugs have every CD every recorded by Kenny G. Hey, I'm just saying...

 

Good for the banana slugs! It's commendable that they support members of their community.