The Museum of Dead Technology!

[Anderton]

In one of the other topics, a friend mentioned Adam's Coleco computer system. That got me thinking it would be cool to start a thread on dead, loser technology...those freaks of technological progress that have provided the road kill for our never-ending advancements. Next post, I'll nominate some of my favorites.

[Anderton]

Quad's an obvious one, but that's too easy. One of my all-time favorites is the Elcaset. This was supposed to replace the cassette; it was basically a larger, bulkier cassette with 1/4" tape. The inventors apparently never really understood that the reason why people bought cassettes was because they were small and portable. The Elcaset was previewed at some consumer electronics shows, and there are rumors of actual production models gathering dust in attics somewhere. But overall, the concept died a quick, and richly-deserved, death.

[Anderton]

...and who can forget CopyCode, CBS's solution to piracy? They came up with the brilliant idea of just notching a slice out of the frequency spectrum in the upper midrange (I believe it could take out high B flat on a piano, in fact). If something like a recorder saw there wasn't any energy in that band, it would know the CD was protected, and would disable record. All those "golden ear" types interviewed in Mix all basically said it was wonderful and didn't mess with the sound. But then the NBS conducted a test, and found that about 60% of people pulled randomly from the street could easily tell the difference between copycoded and non copycoded material! Thankfully, this incredibly stupid and wrong-headed idea was dropped, thanks in no small part to some Senator from New Jersey (I forget his name...) who stuck a provision in the copycode bill saying that if the NBS nixed the concept after testing it, that would be the end of the matter.

[Anderton]

While I'm bashing CBS labs, let's also reminisce about the CX noise reduction system for records. This was basically an expander a la dbx, which wasn't too bad an idea except that the records had to be compressed to the point where they sounded horrible without a CX noise reduction unit. People didn't buy the hardware units, so nobody needed encoded records, so there weren't any encoded records, so no one bought the hardware...and then a few years later the CD came along anyway. Rest in peace, CX.

 

Don't get me started on the Arp Avatar...or CD-TV...or...

[THE MIX FIX]

Craig:

 

I guess a few of mine would be 3", 32 track Analog Tape and Machines,(The Machines were made by MCI, and the tape by Ampex, 3-M, and BASF, I believe), although I WISH I had one of those rare birds. Or 1" 12-track Analogue machines (still a few around).

 

Eight track tapes were cool, too. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif And the format "in-between" Eight-track and Cassette tapes. I don't remember WHAT they were called!!

 

Of course, more recently, let's NOT forget the DCC (Digital Compact Cassette), The Mini Disc (which is sort of HALF dead).

 

 

For Digital systems:

 

Stationary head open reel digital 2-tracks, 3-M's multi-Track's, Sound Stream's Digital machines.

 

The Plethora of competing Digital Systems, when they FIRST were trying to decide on a standard, (Although I thought the dbx system was the BEST of the lot).

 

I could go on, but I'll leave the rest to others.

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

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Bob.

[arthurcanaveralskies.com]

8-track cassettes, mentioned above by Bob, were SO BAD that

I find it incredible that anyone allowed them to happen.

Somehow, my father decided that 8-track cassette was the

perfect medium, so he taped his entire LP collection on to them.

We even had an 8-track in the family Buick, so I am

all too familiar with this dismal technology.

 

No rewinding capabilities, only fast-forward.

 

Audible clicks, usually right in the middle of a song, as the

thing changed over to the next "side." Mastering houses

compensated for this UNACCEPTABLE problem by

fading songs out and in right before and after the changeover.

RIGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SONG!

 

I listened to hundreds of these cassettes, and now I need therapy.

 

Arthur

[Uh Clem]

Well, I'd give 'em a prize, those 8-tracks. I can remember walking around the campus on the last day of school like it was yesterday, sixth grade - last grade where you spent all day with the same people - our little group had the sorrow of the world on us knowing we'd be strewn across town the next year and some chic with a portable 8-track and Disraeli Gears changed my life. You don't have to die to go to heaven - it's all timing http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

[Anderton]

As I recall, 8 track tape cartridges used lubricated tape, as it was a tape loop. The lubrication was certain to wear out at some point, so the 8-track had guaranteed built-in obsolescence!

 

But does anyone remember the predecessor, 4-track tape cartridges?!? Now that's one for the museum of dead technologies.

[jimmy_dup3]

Hey everyone is forgetting the upside of 8 track cassettes ... remember the matchbook you had to use to keep the tape in the machine at "just" the right angle so it wouldn't drag ... WEEELLL...

The matchbook was always right there for the candlelight dinner that went along with the Barry White 8 track cassette NOT to mention always knowing where the matches were for the inevitable power outtage .... Good stuff those 8 tracks ... Using ProTools now .. but every now and then GOTTA put on an 8 track to Keep us honest and tolet us know how far we've come !!! Jimmy

[Quin]

Well.....if you want to project forward a few years - with a wing and a prayer - you'll have said good bye to tape, and a bunch of the other current storage mediums - IF the products from C3D make it to the market. They currently have technology that allows storage of 140Gb of data on ONE side of a CD-ROM - with over 1 Gb/s access speeds. You can read all about it at http://wwwc-3d.net/product.htm

[Uh Clem]

seems like recording media hasn't really come that far since Edison came up with that spinning tube - still stuff spining around whether wax or tape or discs - when are we gonna stop this spinning?

[Quin]

Thats why I pointed to the C3D technology product page - part of the promise of their technology is the concept a terracube of memory....with the reads/writes occuring via lasers into a cube or layer of non-spinning media... so maybe the promise of 'silent' computers is not that far away.

[jso6mailcity.com]

Craig, sorry but I disagree with you on the mini disc. Most ad agencies here in the phil, are getting more and more into the MD. Try bringing a walkman type around with you wherever you go. A lot of Radio stations here selectively transfer tracks to MD from CD for their programming, or ad and news materials, its more durable than a CD(not prone to scratches and can be re-recorded), much better quality than MP3, or cassettes(which a lot of people here still use. And imagine if they replaced the standard floppy disc with an MD, the same one you use on an MD4 or a stereo MD. This is like the storage cassettes used by the TRS80 computer users back in the late 70's. It is also the ideal size(mini). Maybe it won't carry audio but .wav or MP# in the future. Except for Audio or(perhaps in the future)Video Quality, It seems to me to be more versatile than CDs. Although more expensive,(good cassettes are more expensive than CDRs by the way) they are not prone to smudges, scratches, and very easy and durable to handle. DVD quality MDs in the future?

[Anderton]

>>Craig, sorry but I disagree with you on the mini disc. <<

 

That was MIX FIX, not me, nominating the minidisc for the museum of dead technology. I've had a minidisc for almost two years and found it invaluable for field recording and sampling, as well as a sort of "sampler" for playing back bits of digital audio in my live act. In fact, I've written a couple for EQs about why I think MDs are cool.

 

However, they do NOT substitute for CDs for critical listening. They're okay, but 5:1 reduction can only do so much. However, the portability, eraseability, and durability counts for a lot when schlepping around with something that can record.

[THE MIX FIX]

Originally posted by Anderton:

>>Craig, sorry but I disagree with you on the mini disc. <<

 

That was MIX FIX, not me, nominating the minidisc for the museum of dead technology.

 

 

Craig:

 

You're good!! Got me on that!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

I ONLY said it was HALF-DEAD, though!!

 

I STILL find it in used in TV and Radio Stations, but I don't know why. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

The Digi-Cart, or something like that, would be a MUCH better alternative, I think.

 

BUT, as long as they are still out there, I'll still have to say they are only 1/2 dead!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

------------------

Bob.

[Anderton]

One other thing about Minidiscs...I'm not sure you'd get that much advantage from storing MP3s on them. MP3s with 5:1 reduction don't sound quite as good as MD in my opinion, and I certainly don't want to have to listen to MP3 format at 10:1 or greater compression, unless it's just to stream audio on the net. Also, you'd need ATRAC and MP3 encoding/decoding on the player...I'm not sure you can do MP3 encoding on the fly, as is done with ATRAC.

 

It's a pity the MD is half-dead (at least in the US) but that's what happens when portable cassette players are $30, portable CD players are $60, and portable MDs are $250!! Reality check, anyone?

[jso6mailcity.com]

Sorry about that Craig,

Good CDwriters here cost 10,000 pesos up or about $250 (internal), the portable MDs are 12,000 pesos up or about $300, good recording cassette players- 6,000 pesos or $150 Blank CDs cost about 40 pesos or a dollar or less, while MDs about 200 pesos or $5 but re-recordable,good chrome tapes about 100 pesos or $2.50. The only reason the CD players & writers are cheaper is because it has sold more(economics of scale). At 5:1 we certainly can make out the difference in critical listening, but if we show it to the man on the street or the average buyer in the music shop, they certainly won't get the difference between CD and MD, but they WILL notice the difference between cassette. Anyway, will you be able to determine if a sound was originally sampled by an MD when you've placed it part of a 24bit or 16 bit mix. As long as we sample, I think MDs will remain "half-dead". Not until we carry our 5.1 audio in our 1gig ram cards to put in our players. They can't improve the quality of MDs because they can't sell that many, and they can't sell that many because they're too expensive compared to cassettes and much lesser quality to "professionally" replace CDs. too bad. but a lot of my clients use it for playing the minus_1 of their songs in promo tours or lectures.

[jso6mailcity.com]

Talk about dead technology,

 

I first started to score movies 6 years ago and I brought my midi setup computer to the movie studio of one of the MAJOR MOVIE OUTFITS here to lay in my tracks. I was given 2 weeks to do the soundtrack of a major film, after I recieved the vhs of the rushes. I came to the studio with my MIDI stuff already mixed in stereo to accomodate the accents that the action-movie scenes needed and ready SMPTE. When I got to the studio, I was greeted with 1 mono plug to fit into a board and Movie projector that they acquired second hand back in 1950!!!!. Sorry I can't tell you guys what brand and model but they still use that stuff here up to now!!! Here I was a technogeek all excited to do my first movie gig and to actually use my SMPTE for real in a movie. I ended up cueing to the SMPTE nos. on the screen but only manually. THis is still how they do this in the Phillipines. They make a lot of money and because they do so, they don't find the need to invest on newer equipment!! Thank God Broadcast, music and Advertizing don't share the mentality of the movie industry!!! I'll get you the models of those equipment one of these days. I guess you guys know where your old equipments end up. he heh he

-----joel

[THE MIX FIX]

That's okay Joel:

 

I had to do an cheapie independant film in the USA LAST YEAR, with NO sync. There was a SMPTE "burn in" on the VHS copies which I had to work from, but it was all synced manually, and later edited tighter to the picture.

 

At least it builds your character and chops to do it that way. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/eek.gif

 

------------------

Bob.

[jso6mailcity.com]

Thanks bob,

but I'd want to keep sharpening my chops by doing stuff with sync too. If all I can work on doesn't require a higher degree of quality I'm wary that my aesthetics and judgement will degrade too.

[THE MIX FIX]

Joel:

 

Sure.

 

BUT, is good to be able to do BOTH, just in case someone else can't, YOU can step in and be the "Hero". (Refer to your post about "Guitar Heros". http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

 

------------------

Bob.

[jso6mailcity.com]

thanks bob!

 

I'm just hoping I get to work in the more cool stuff, but anyway, If you guys ever come to Cebu with a more "technologically updated" job to do, look me up.. he.heh

joel....

[Alndln]

How about that old PIAA drum machine kit,I think Craig even did an article about assembling it years ago.I think we got it going somehow but it never made it's way on to any tracks.I do remember that it sounded absolutley awful.

[Alndln]

Almost forgot,my brother used to use something for his guitar called the "Gizmo"(Gizmotron)that was invented by Lol Creme of 10cc I think,it attached to the bridge and had little gears foreach string with push buttons on top of each gear(string)so when the gears hit the string it had a cello effect.It sounded pretty good but was a pain in the ass to maintain,let alone get parts for.

[Guest]

 

I STILL find it in used in TV and Radio Stations, but I don't know why. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

The Digi-Cart, or something like that, would be a MUCH better alternative, I think.

 

[/b]

 

In the broadcast world - beasts like the videocypher with it's 38k sample rate and usable 12-14 bit depth make minidisc, digicart, and other media wonderful technologies by comparision. How networks, who spend millions, live with this scrambling crap at the end of their broadcast chain, is a great indication of their lack of interest in audio quality. After all, it's the image (picture) that matters anymore. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

[This message has been edited by billmusic@theglobe.com (edited 08-20-2000).]

[Anderton]

Originally posted by Alndln@hotmail.com:

Almost forgot,my brother used to use something for his guitar called the "Gizmo"(Gizmotron)that was invented by Lol Creme of 10cc I think,it attached to the bridge and had little gears foreach string with push buttons on top of each gear(string)so when the gears hit the string it had a cello effect.It sounded pretty good but was a pain in the ass to maintain,let alone get parts for.

 

From what I understand, the little gears would wear out pretty easily, and you couldn't find replacements because the company went out of business. How many of you still have gear that would work perfectly well, except you can't get parts or software for it? Grrrrr....

[Anderton]

Originally posted by billmusic@theglobe.com:

In the broadcast world - beasts like the videocypher with it's 38k sample rate and usable 12-14 bit depth make minidisc, digicart, and other media wonderful technologies by comparision. How networks, who spend millions, live with this scrambling crap at the end of their broadcast chain, is a great indication of their lack of interest in audio quality. After all, it's the image (picture) that matters anymore. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

Perhaps once sound starts coming out of more "home theater" gear and fewer 3" transistor radio speakers, there will be an incentive to improve TV sound.

[Anderton]

I just remembered a fertile new territory for the Museum fo Dead Technology: The Museum of Stillborn Technology -- stuff that died before it even made it to market. I remember some Yamaha synth (V80?)that was between FM synthesis and the SY stuff that never made it; ditto Peavey's "Kurzweil killer" that combined the SP sampler with a synthesis engine and lots of processing. It was promised at trade shows, but never appeared. And anyone remember the Axcel additive synth that made the rounds at AES shows and such? It had a great LED interface and a few very cool sounds, but disappeared into the murk of DOA products.

[Guest]

I have a supreme example of a product which was put out of its misery before any massive damage was done on us unwary musical instrument product comnsumers.

 

The Bond guitar.

 

This was a guitar that made some trade show rounds. Basically (if I remember correctly) it started as a venture to reduce unemployment in a certain part of Great Britain. The Bond guitar was made entirely of one piece moulded plastic. Even the neck and the fretboard. Thus it had no frets. Instead the fretboard was moulded with steps that you would push the string against so the string could vibrate. The backwards thing with this concept was that you actually had to push the string backwards towards the head rather than towards the body as we are used to. It had buttons for pick-up on/off for each of the three single coils and push buttons for treble up/down and bass up/down. It enabled you to get all pickup combinations but it was a hassle to change the tone as you had to press the push button repeatedly to get more change than one step. It had a cool looking angled LED readout that showed the parameter value you were just trying to change.

 

On top of all this it also sounded quite horrible.

 

 

Happy memories!

 

Mats Nermark

[Guest]

Craig,

 

I love this topic and I remember almost all the stuff you mention.

 

Another product that didn't live long was the Stepp "Guitar" MIDI controller. This was similar in concept to the ill fated Synth Axe and met the same fate but did so sooner than the Synth Axe. If this was because of inferior design, inferior financing or just less stamina in the company backbone I don't know. I still think it looked very cool.

 

I will try to remember some more. I have a vague mamory of a monster size synth at an early Frankfurt show.

 

Happy dodo hunting!

 

Mats Nermark