What happened to guitar/keyboard heroes?

[gchildpblutah.com]

My musical heroes (piano/guitar, whatever) are those that make me think I'm discovering music for the first time. The music they make makes me smile and sit up to listen to the message they have to say. The lessons they teach are about the deep meaning of music and not about the histrionics of jumping up and down on stage.

 

It includes teachers, amateur and professional musicians and has nothing to do with airplay or mass market popularity. It has to do with the quality and exuberance of the performance regardless of whether it gets put down on vinyl/disc/hard drive.

 

If you can find it, there's a documentary on Boogaloo Ames and Eden Brent. He plays piano; she sings and plays piano. He's black; she's white. He's in his seventies/eighties; she's in her twenties. The documentary is about their synergy as a performing pair and Eden's insatiable desire to learn from Boogaloo. The music makes you happy and makes you think there's still hope in this overproduced world. It'll give you a little faith.

 

Also there's a lot of great music being made by amateurs and professionals that's out of the pop limelight. I think you can't discount the classical world. It's audiences are shrinking and the repertoire may be getting a bit dusty, but as far as performance on the keyboard there's still some great, pyrotechnical playing going on.

 

There's also the community choir/symphony/local players. They make music for joy and fun. Heroes don't need to go the media centers of the world in order to turn out product like so much vienna sausage.

 

Each age waxes and wanes as far as "is music dead?"; "where are the heroes?". The technology changes; the performance style changes; what's considered worth worshiping changes.

 

Bach worshipped an organ player named Buxtehede in 1600's Germany. Bach walked miles on the roads of the day to hear the man perform on pipe organ. Who would get excited about pipe organ nowadays?

 

Mozart was the wunderkind of his time. He toured with his dad everywhere improvising themes provided by the enraptured audience. Who would get excited about improvising on piano in a classical style nowadays?

 

There was a cult of piano players in Paris in the mid 1800's with Franz Liszt at its core. They were really keyboard "gods". The public lionized them like Clapton got worshiped early on in his career. Who, outside of a few classical freaks (like me), gets excited about Liszt's florid, flashy, (some say) empty compositions today?

 

And talk about music being commoditized. When pianos became affordable for the mass audience, people made their own entertainment at home. Sheet music sales flourished. I hear people today bemoaning the fact that we've forgotten the virtues of "rolling your own" like that. I haven't read all the commentary of that time about music in the home but I'm sure there was somebody bemoaning the fact that 'now music is in the hands of the vulgar masses there is no place to go but down.'

 

It comes and goes. Just like most things.

[Doug Robinson]

<,Boomers aren't the only generation pandered to anymore -- that's nothing to get upset about but it's the truth.>>

 

I'm not upset, but I'm not sure you're right.

We've still got the bucks and the numbers in our favor, we're living longer, and we're spoiled rotten--I don't think we're going to be completely out of the spotlight until our last breaths. But there is enough to go around for everyone--I'm happy that the music "industry" is courting a younger generation. It puts pressure on other outlets to serve my demographic, which will create new opportunities for artists like me.

 

 

 

[This message has been edited by Doug Robinson (edited 08-25-2000).]

[Doug Robinson]

Sorry, I posted before I finished responding to a couple of other comments.

 

<.

 

Well, sure. But a WW II hero doesn't have to keep storming the beach over and over in order to be respected for what he did almost 60s years ago. If someone is truly worthy of that title, then he or she should be regarded as a hero until they do something majorly unheroic, imo. Why be so stingy with the title, anyway? Is there some statute of limitations on heroism that i don't know about? There are sax players today who are technically better players than Bird and Trane. Does this diminish their contributions to jazz in any way?

 

(The answer is no, just for those who don't dig jazz. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

<

>>

 

That's the way it has always been, but it does feel different today than when I was a kid, aghast at the thought of listening to my dad's favorite records. There are a lot of crossovers in taste today. Who was "Run Lola Run" aimed at? It's a punkish vibe with a killer techno soundtrack, and all my 40+ friends loved it. The biggest fans of 1950s jazz that i know are all either under 20 or just past it.

 

And by the same token, I reject things aimed at my demographic all the time. It isn't going to be that simple anymore--we can all pretty much seek and access whatever pleases us, regardless of age. Mass marketing will still happen, but the alternatives are far more exciting to everyone I know.

[Guest]

Here's 2 cents more.

 

My music history goes back to the early 60's, and my tastes extend, in 3D, even further, so I am not just focusing on any one music genre.

 

At the present time and going back 10-15 years, because of fast technological changes, there are many more "music artists" flooding the market.

Yes, there were many great artists back in the 50's, 60's and early 70's, but also the way music was played and created was "new" and rapidly evolving back then. This is what created the heroes. Being in the right place at the right time AND doing something new/different.

Today, there a many great artists, but too many doing the same thing. Yes, there are innovators too, but they are not making as big an impact as those of the 50's, 60's & 70's, where most of rock, r&b, soul...etc, is rooted.

When 50's R&R kick in, it really blew away the 30's & 40's sound, including melody, rhythm and featured instruments.

The 60's, with the war in Vietnam, and the use of recreational drugs, extended the purpose and execution of music, as was evident in many of the lyrics, and though much of the featured instruments were that same as the 50's, the 60's showed us a whole new way to play those instruments to make "new" sounds.

The 70's brought us the beginings of the current technology wave and the start of the "project studio" generation. Also, the 70's brought the mega music deals, with lucrative artist marketing and hype.

Very quickly everybody wanted to be a rock star AND now the technology made it easier(?) and simpler(?) to persue that dream. The music market became flooded.

Other than the new technology and so many new "artists", there really has not been a "new" form of music, it has just grown and evolved from the rock & roll roots.

Because of that, I find myself listening more to world ethnic music these days, than I do to anything modern that is based in R&R, because it is so played out. But, every now and then, there are fresh ideas even in the R&R based music.

I think the real heroes or all the people investing so much time and money to persue the "rock star" dream, when today it is harder than ever to break through.

 

Miroslav

[Bill V]

A couple of decades or so ago I got into a discusion with my non-musician younger brother about the basics of music theory, when he turned to me and said "If there are only twelve notes, then why have'nt all the songs been written yet?" It was the funniest thing I had ever heard... Now twenty years later, I don't really think it is so funny anymore and I'm sure many would argue that he may have had a point.

 

I'm in agreement with Subspace on this one. Music has been based on technology from the very beginning. From the first crude drum to the piano>saxophone>electric bass and now physically modeling synths, the technology has influenced musical styles every step of the way. When I was a kid I was convinced that the reason my parents generation could'nt stand rock music was because they never heard loud electric guitars when they were growing up. They heard natural sounding predictable acoustic instruments. Hendrix playing the Star Spangeled Banner on a loud stratocaster thru a fuzz/wah>Marshall stack was just god awful noise.

 

In the last century while technology has increased at warp speed, the effect it has had on pop music is clear. In the 30's drummers were told to leave the kick drum at home on recording sessions, as it would damage the recording equipment. The invention of the multi-track allowed over dubs which enabled one to harmonize with oneself. The electric bass allowed Paul McCartney to create melodic bass lines because they could be heard clearly for the first time. The two inch twenty four track allowed indvidual drum tracking, which gave rise to disco. MIDI allowed computer sequencing which started new wave synth pop and put real musicians out of work. And now loop sampling has created this new rave techno music.

 

In the beginning of any new art form there is always a cosmic burst of creative energy

with diminishing returns as time goes on. The inovation of Louis Armstrong and George Gershwin and Robert Johnson are more influential in the great scheme of things than say a Lennon/McCartney or Pat Metheney or Pearl Jam. Just in the same way the invention of the wire recorder is more important over all than the latest SSL console or Pentium III based DAW.

 

There has been far less inovation in the last twenty or so years in pop music than their was in the twenty years that preceded, partially because once something revolutionary has been invented, it will never again have the same impact on future musicians as it had on the musicians who got their hands on it first.

[nhcomp45aol.com]

Im sure the draft ended in May 1974. I had a lottery no 80 in 73 and 121 in 74. Two things that mean nothing to me Hendrix and stratocasters.Make mine Gibson bass or guitar.

[Anderton]

>>How long must generations genuflect and say "Oh, Jimi, oh Eric..." There are new artists now, but even so, comparisons across the years are pretty useless.<<

 

I can't agree at all. Every generation produces great musicians, and who wants to miss out on that? Django Reinhart, JS Bach, Debussy, Beethoven, Scott Joplin, etc. were way before my time, but they were great. There's some big band stuff, also before my time, that's pretty cool, particularly Artie Shaw.

 

There are musicians from yesterday, today, and tomorrow who have, are, and will make great music. I'd rather not miss out on any of it...great music doesn't have a shelf life!

[Anderton]

Here's something to think about...

 

Imagine you lived in Beethoven's time. Somehow, you managed to get a ticket to see a new symphony of his, called simply "

The Fifth." The anticipation among the audience waiting for the piece to start must have been palpable. What was it going to be like? There were no previews on TV, or clips played on the Leno show.

 

Finally, the first 4 notes rang out. If you can divorce yourself from the fact that Beethoven's Fifth has been overplayed for centuries, imagine sitting in that symphony hall -- remember, you didn't have hi-fi, TV, or headphones, so you didn't get to hear a lot of high-decibel music -- and hearing exceptionally dramatic music.

 

You had to savor every second, because you would not be able to go to the record store and buy a copy to listen to at home. You were witnessing a rare, unique moment (and hopefully, the lead violinist didn't have the flu or something).

 

What a difference compared to the dawn of the 21st century.

[THE MIX FIX]

Originally posted by alphajerk:

plus back in the 60's, TV wasnt even invented

 

Don't tell that ot Jackie Gleason or Lucille Ball fans, who watched those shows, plus many others, in the early 50s. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

 

 

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Bob.

[THE MIX FIX]

Originally posted by nhcomp45@aol.com:

Im sure the draft ended in May 1974. I had a lottery no 80 in 73 and 121 in 74.

 

Tell THAT to SWright 50, the History "EXPERT". http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

 

 

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Bob.

[good morning]

Geez....

 

So maybe I'm off a year on the draft! I didn't have to worry about it, unlike earlier boomers. (Are you reading this, MIX FIX? I'm being gentle. I could have said "old boomers.")

 

Craig, I agree about all the talent you mention. Learning from and enjoying a variety of artists opens the mind. ("I like mine closed, thank you.") This can be a struggle because of preferences and the desire for the familiar. What I find "useless" is a comparison for the purpose of ranking, saying one artist is a hero and another is not. Even between my own ears I can get mired and overlook what each offers. Discussions about heroes with anyone else are naturally more problematic.

 

I think Bach shows great insight into chords. Borodin, Mussorsky, and Rimsky-Korsakov offer fantastic melodies. Live is good for that too, but for lyrics, one can't beat Eminem.

 

(Joke! I've seen your other thread...)

[Dembones_dup1]

It's true, of all pop instruments, bass seems to be the only one with current (mainstream) heros...

 

There are so many opinions here as to why "gunslingers" aren't necessarily celebrated today, I'm not going to add another. (Of course, in Japan and other eastern countries, virtuosos are far more appreciated than in the US... And their students are how far ahead of ours???) Forgive me if someone mentioned that before...

 

All I know is that I loved Van Halen as a teenager, but in the early 90's as soon as Eddie started writing "songs" as opposed to vehichles for his wailing, I became less interested - They started sounding bloated and even boring at times. Oddly enough, I love the B-52s, but it's because they write good pop songs... If they recruted a gunslinger, I'd probably stop listening.

 

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Demian Norvell

AppleSeed Studios

Ruch, OR

[alphajerk]

i heard women had orgasms while listening to beethoven play.

[good morning]

I heard that too. Then at the dentist I read in a woman's magazine (tough choice -- it was that or People mag, I'm thinking of changing docs) that they just say that to see how many men will actually play a Beethoven CD.

[THE MIX FIX]

Originally posted by swright50@excite.com:

Geez....

 

So maybe I'm off a year on the draft! I didn't have to worry about it, unlike earlier boomers. (Are you reading this, MIX FIX? I'm being gentle. I could have said "old boomers.")

 

 

Nothing to worry about with the draft, huh? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

So, then SHUT UP!!?? http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

 

 

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Bob.

[Anderton]

Okay, so we're all doing our own thing, and that's why we don't have heroes. That's interesting, because when I started Electronic Musician magazine, I didn't want to feature artists on the cover -- I felt the readers were the stars.

 

But I can't help feel that heroes occupy an important place in our lives, and the absence of them takes something away. In mythology, the heroes were there to triumph over adversity, remind us of our frailties, and show how to overcome them. They were created to remind us of the human potential, even when the failed.

 

I don't think we need heroes for people to worship. That does seem terribly mindless. What we need heroes for is to inspire us. We need musicians we can look at, and have our jaws drop to the floor. We need to be reminded that no matter how good we are, we could be so much better.

 

I have a hero of sorts, a musician in Germany named Dr. Walker that I met a few years ago. What I admired was his ability to play a mixer like an instrument, his total adherence to a well-defined musical vision, and the startling simplicity and correctness of his drum and synth bass lines. But what raised him beyond "really cool musician" status in my eyes was that he created a scene in Cologne, brought people into it, started clubs to showcase not just his music but the music of others, and created an atmosphere of collaboration rather than competition. Chops didn't exist to be better than someone else, but to make better music.

 

Seeing what he did inspired me to get back into live playing again, to collaborate more, to broaden my boundaries. These are all things I should have known anyway, but it took someone else to bring it out in me.

 

Maybe that's what we need in today's "heroes." Not people who blow us away with technique, but people who serve up a complete package that deals with more than just music. People who inspire, who help us get to the next level. What are we in this for anyway, if not to progress?

 

I apologize in advance for the long-windedness...

[good morning]

Craig,

 

Beautiful conclusion -- seriously. End the thread.

 

MixBob: Go back to sleep!

[THE MIX FIX]

Swright:

 

I guess you mean sleep, as when reading your posts, not when doing recording FOR A LIVING!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/tongue.gif

 

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Bob.

[trick fall]

Craig, I agree with you 110%

t.fall

[Guest]

wow, that was a whole lot-o-commentin'. I didn't read every post,or even all of the longer post, it just got a little repetitive.

I do know this, in 1968, I was 16 years old.

( got your calculator, Bob?) there was a lot of internal fear and personal turmoil as well as what was happening around us. I can remember a-bomb drills, I can remember the korean conflict, I was scared as hell about viet nam. Heroes? hell yeah! we needed jimi and eric and any-damn-body that took our minds off of the real world. if that wasn't bad enough, after it all seemed to level out, here comes disco! what have we got today? everything we need and we don't need heroes. the last person that turned my head with a guitar was dwayne allman. after he died I said the hell with it.

jp

[good morning]

MixBox,

 

I mean "sleep" as in your default state. Your discombobulated responses strongly suggest that to be yours.

 

(Shame! Shame!! In truth you are my hero now; I'm just embarrassed to admit it.)

[alanstarerols.com]

I can't believe that this topic revolves around Hendrix/Clapton/EVH, as if there's no one playing guitar nowadays! Just a couple worth mentioning, off the top of my head:

 

In the derivitive/carrying-on-the-tradition category, Johnny Lang and Kenny Wayne Sheppard are cranking out the blues.

 

Chris Whitley is exploring the fringe areas where Delta blues meets Jimi.

 

Phish, Dave Mathews, String Cheese Incident, Government Mule, Galactic, etc. are all bring musicianship back onto the stage. Also check out the North Mississippi All-Stars, sorts of Cream meets Allman Brothers.

 

Sonic Youth is still out there changing the way the guitar is played and sounds.

 

And no one has even mentioned Tom Morello of Rage Against the Machine, the most amazingly inventive guitarist to arrive in the past decade!

 

alan

[Anderton]

>>I can't believe that this topic revolves around Hendrix/Clapton/EVH, as if there's no one playing guitar nowadays! <<

 

The whole point of this thread was using them as a frame of reference for the days when there were "guitar heroes." The fact that you have to send an email with a list of hot guitarists sort of proves the point...yes, Tom Morello is great, but he doesn't seem to be getting the notoriety he would have gotten had he been around 20 or 30 years ago. Maybe we've all just become jaded. "Great guitar players? Been there, done that!"