Tracking the drum sound from a drum machine

[tekouamny.freei.net._dup1]

Hi Craig,

 

What is the technic to make a drum machine or drum module sound like live/analog drum as the sound is being recorded to tape?

 

Any ideas?

 

Tekouam.

 

 

 

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[Guest]

Try pumping it through a speaker (preferably a large one) and then recording the speaker with a kick drum mic (or some mic capable of picking up the low frequencies). The further away the mic is from the speaker, the more room sound you'll get. You might also try mixing in the direct signal with the "acoustic" version.

 

Jonathan Hughes

[Guest]

Originally posted by tekouam@ny.freei.net.:

 

What is the technic to make a drum machine or drum module sound like live/analog drum as the sound is being recorded to tape?

 

[/b]

 

We used to put a speaker lying face up on the floor, with a snare drum upside down over the woofer, and use two mics (one close and one 6-8 feet away) and mix that in to add some 'live' ambience.

 

George

[Anderton]

The ambience effects do make a big difference. But another trick you can try is to mic real cymbals and hit those instead of using the ones in the drum box. It makes all the difference in the world, because we're so used to hearing pretty bad cymbals in drum machines. If we hear good cymbals, our brain automatically thinks "hey, real drums!"

 

The other trick I use all the time is to dedicate TWO of the same drum sound for each "pad," with one tuned slightly lower than the other. I then split up hits between the two so there's more of a right hand/left hand vibe.

[Anderton]

I've been toying with the crazy idea of miking my nearfield monitors (only ones I can use at this time) at medium levels and recording them in stereo

sort of like fake overheads, of coarse I'll mute the recoded track while recording to not get feedback.Any tips on how to do that correctly without getting into phase problems?

 

Part of what creates a room sound IS phase problems, so as long as you keep the ambience in the background, you should be okay. It's only when signals are at roughly the same level when phase becomes really troublesome.

 

Also, check the article on this site about using short delays with drums to add ambience. That can also help.

[Mr. G]

The programming of the drum tracks will have a HUGE impact on the perception of machine drums as real. For this reason I tend to program drum parts in a sequencer where I can really tweak the velocities and timings.

 

Also, be very conscious of what a real drummer would play. I hear so many programmed drum tracks where there's no way a 4-limbed human could make all those sounds at once -- it's a dead give away.

 

At one point I had a gig creating the backing tracks for parody songs for a radio station in Kansas City. I'd duplicate, note-for-note the hits of the day and they'd drop new lyrics on top.

 

Later, I was in a band with a very limited recording budget. To save tracks (we had one ADAT) I sat down with a recording of the band in concert and duplicated the performace of the drummer note-for-note with my sequencer. I also sampled his drums at multiple velocities and recreated his kit.

 

Doing these kinds of things will teach you more than you probably want to know about making real-sounding machine-based drums.

 

The point of all this: Give the programming as much attention as you give the monitor miking, etc. (which are also all great suggestions).

 

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Mitch Gallagher

Editor

EQ magazine

 

 

[This message has been edited by EQ_Editor (edited 06-07-2000).]

[THE MIX FIX]

That's it!!

 

Mitch nailed it!!

 

IF the drums are programmed by a DRUMMER, or like a drummer would actually play, then it's hard, if not impossible, to tell it's a drum machine.

 

Loops, or every note quantized, playing ALL instruments on one beat, gives it away that it's a drum machine, in a second. Although, it's possible to do that with overdubs, MOST good drummers won't.

 

So, get a drummer to help program, JUST LIKE HE WOULD PLAY IT, and you'll fool MOST people, even Me!! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

 

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif

 

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Bob.

 

[This message has been edited by THE MIX FIX (edited 06-07-2000).]

[JES]

If I can push this thread in a slightly different direction -- I'm doing some home recording and will eventually add drums when the song's finished, but I want to program a drum part and mix the "live" and programmed drums when I do the final mix. PLus, I think some drumming will inspire me to give a better performance as I'm laying down tracks.

 

This has been a real informative thread, since I'd been under the impression that recorded loops would be more realistic since you get the ambiance of a real room with a real drummer. It sounds like this is not the case.

 

So here's my super-basic question: what's a good source of drum sounds for sequencing? I'll be doing it in DP on a Mac, so software's better than an external module, unless there's a good reason for an external module. Where does one get good sounds to program?

 

I've got an old Roland TR-505 which I bought when it was still pretty new -- helped me learn to play in odd time signatures when I was learning bass. But I figure it's time to move up to something that's velocity sensitive, etc.

 

Thanks!

 

--JES

[Dembones_dup1]

I've been doing what Anderton recommended... Programming drum parts, but playing hats & cymbals live. But really, it all comes down to programming. I did an album a couple of years ago in which I worked with a songwriter/singer, but I was practically the entire band and overdubbed all the instruments myself. I kept an accurate journal and figured that on average for each song I spent about 9.5 hours programming drums (on this I didn't do any live cymbals) and about 10 hours on ALL the other instruments combined - And these were songs that I was already intimately familiar with. The overall drum sound, while not perfect, was quite convincing fooling all but one drummer that I played it for.

 

JES: I would recommend checking out the Boss DR-770. I just bought one and have been amazed at the quality and freshness of the sounds. Very editable, and you can do (limited) layering and crossfading of sounds. Hi-hats in particular can be assigned to several pads with different decay times on each - a big help in authenticity. I exclusively program using Cakewalk or my XP-50 and assign the sounds to keys on the keyboard. I also like the Alesis DM5, but the cymbals suck. Their new DM-pro unit looks promising. If you want wierd and original sounds, Kawai made a great rackmount percussion "synthesizer" around '91 which was VERY cool and original, but not at all for the timid!

 

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Demian Norvell

AppleSeed Studios

Ruch, OR

 

[This message has been edited by dembones (edited 06-08-2000).]

[JES]

Thanks Demian -- as always, you rule.

 

--JES

[Guest]

Originally posted by dembones:

If you want wierd and original sounds, Kawai made a great rackmount percussion "synthesizer" around '91 which was VERY cool and original, but not at all for the timid!

 

Amen to that. The Kawai XD-5 Percussion Synth is one of my favorite tools. Similar engine to the K4, but percussion oriented. Somebody did a SoundDiver adaptation for it that I use for editing, and it's a very deep unit. If you're lucky, they'll pop up occasionally on the used market. Got mine for $100 from a guy who'd really wanted a drum machine. Such a deal!

 

George

[Anderton]

Originally posted by JES:

This has been a real informative thread, since I'd been under the impression that recorded loops would be more realistic since you get the ambiance of a real room with a real drummer. It sounds like this is not the case.

 

So here's my super-basic question: what's a good source of drum sounds for sequencing?

 

Loops can indeed sound realistic, but if they keep playing over and over, the realism fades because real drums vary over time. I think there has been a slight mixup here on the difference between sound and performance. I think the original question had more to do with sound, whereas the replies had more to do with performance. I think what this goes to show is you have to have a great performance AND great sounds in order to create an emotionally satisfying drum part - lose either element, and it's not happening.

 

As to drum sounds, it depends on what you want to do, musically speaking. I just heard the Wizoo 24-bit drum sounds over at the Frankfurt Messe, and they sounded wonderful. I've also heard comments from other people about how great they sound. You don't get loops, just individual drums that you can sequence. So at least this takes care of the sound, now you have to deal with the performance!