Marketing/promoting disaster relief songs (was renew FOF website)

[nursers]

Hi folks,

 

The domain name we registered for FOF is coming up soon for renewal. I'm wondering if it's worth renewing? I'm not saying we don't still have songs to complete, but will the website play a role in that or should we get something submitted to CD baby (and then on iTunes Music Store)?

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm happy to pay for the renewal and I can afford to keep hosting the site as well, but if people feel it's redundant then I might as well do some cleanin' up

[nursers]

[DanS]

Just came by for a visit, but I guess you have your answer.

[nursers]

I think you may be right

[Hooper]

Hey DanS- good to see you around

 

Well, Dave- Might it be time to talk about another kind of way to package the collaboration projects, and still related to a disaster relief effort? Actually I've had an idearrrr.....

[Eric VB]

Oooh! An idearrrrr.....

[Hooper]

Well, here is just a start of an idearrr to throw out and maybe get chewed on a bit...

 

CONCEPT: Compilation Album(s).

Perhaps called 'Disaster Collaborations' Vol I, Vol II, etc. Collaboration required but songs do not need to be thematically about the latest tsunami, hurricane or earthquake. The idea is to promote collaboration activity on this site in a way that also results in generating funding for disaster relief. We get to have fun collaborating and critiquing. Similar to the collab CD's being done at the Keyboard Corner or at the old Recording Website.

 

Format could be a real-world CD ~or~ virtual CD. You know what a real CD is. 'Virtual CD' would be a web page with artwork, credits and songs for download.

 

So, how does the funding occur? It costs, say $100 minimum per song to put a song on the CD. For each song, a $100 donation must be made to the International Red Cross and earmarked for Disaster Relief. To qualify, make the donation online and you will receive an e-receipt (suitable for tax purposes) from the Red Cross. Forward a copy of your $100 receipt to the honcho producing the CD and you're in. I hope that EVERYBODY who owns enough musical, recording and computer equipment to be hanging around here is already participating in some form of contributions! I would think it okay whether the $100 was over-and-above what you're already doing or just a re-directing of money you were gonna give anyway. Yep, the money comes from the people makin' the music.

 

In the case of the virtual CD there is no money that needs to be sent in to anybody at the Collaboration Corner. The real CD, though undeniably much cooler, would involve collecting some money to cover production costs. So, there are trade-offs to consider. In either case after the CD is finished, a review/critique tree would go up at the Collaboration Corner.

 

Pitfalls to avoid:

1. You've GOT TO have a deadline. If you don't believe it yet, then go back and review the threads for the yet uncompleted FOF songs. Sorry, enough said.

2. Ditto number 1.

3. Repeat 2.

 

Okay, you get the idea...

[nursers]

Hoop, I think that's one hell of an idea

 

Once the first CD was done then we could approach CD Baby and get the damn thing available for purchase even, with that money going direct to charity? CD Baby stuff now ends up on iTunes which is a great marketing opportunity...

 

And I hear you about deadlines - they are essential...

[Eric VB]

Almost started another thread on this, 'cause I forgot where I read it. Man, am I gettin' old fast!

 

Ok, I think I've addressed the pitfalls for my song. Let's hope it works.

 

I'm not sure what the motivation is for Hooper's idea. (I'm not trying to knock you, Hooper, I'm just trying to understand.) Perhaps he knows something about FOF that I don't, since I wasn't around for that. I must say that all along I was hoping the FOF/tsunami model was going to be used for the hurricane songs: US$2.80 donation per downloader per song. I can see how that would be challenging without going through a well-known online distributor like iTunes, though. So, is the idea that since we can't count on ever distributing the songs, we should look for guaranteed funding from each songwriter?

 

Now, there's all sorts of reasons why only two tsunami songs were completed -- one released Jan. 3rd and the other Mar. 9th -- and none of the hurricane songs are yet done; obviously a lack of deadlines had/has a big part. Would the proposed pay-to-play format out-and-out kill whatever songs are currently stuck in the mud? The only incentive I see to move these forward is to have viable promotion/distribution worked out. After all, even if I pony up a Ben Franklin (US$100) and it goes to relief -- which is the point of all this, after all -- but nobody else ever hears my song, then why did I write the song? Why should collaborators send their tracks? Why should the engineers mix and master? We could have saved ourselves a lot of time and effort by just sending in the donation and forgoing the song.

 

Honestly, it's hard enough getting a collaboration to completion. And you can't even start a collaboration without someone writing a full song and demo-ing it. (How many collaborations outside of disaster relief are currently ongoing here?) Will future songwriters be discouraged by the "submission fee"? If the songwriter tries to share the cost with collaborators, will he/she even find anyone to collaborate with?

 

Yeah, I know. US$100 isn't a lot of money for most people. With 5 people collaborating, you're down to US$20 a man. I spend more than that to fill up my gas tank. I'm just saying, don't make this any harder than it already is.

 

I have no idea how CD Baby works. Perhaps I should go research them. [Ok, I just took a quick look. More on this later.]

 

I know there are 4 hurricane songs that were started (none announced to be finished yet). And I know that 2 tsunami songs were finished and distributed, but I don't know how many more were started but never completed. With Craig Anderton's departure, is it still possible to even get a hold of the people necessary to finish the tsunami songs? I know one more is currently being worked on and is close to completion. So, realistically, you're looking at 3 (tsunami) + 4 (hurricane) = 7 songs for a CD. And would I be wrong in assuming that the 2 currently finished songs would be grandfathered onto the CD without the US$100 pledges? (That only seems fair, since they've already raised a lot more than US$200.) It would be nice if at least one more tsunami song (after "Rebuild") were completed to bring the CD song count up to 8.

 

I know a lot of people have busted their butts on promotion and distribution for a long time now. A lot of work was put into FOF; not just designing a professional looking website but also in getting the word out. This project is still going to need a web presence, IMO, but it seems that the current FOF website is not viable. I'd be happy to see David (he seems to be the guy for the job) set up a MySpace (or other free site) account as a focal point for the collaborations, if this would help.

 

CD Baby seems like a good place for digital distribution, although their business plan puts a kink in our ideal of giving the songs to people who make donations, where 100% of the donation goes for relief. (Forgive me if this has already been gone over before.) With the current FOF pricing, a 7-song CD would require a US$19.60 donation. If we want to keep that and be able to cover the CD Baby fee ($4/CD), you're looking at US$23.60 per CD. For digital downloads, you'd only need US$21.54 per CD, or US$3.08 per song (CD Baby takes 9%). Oh, and there's still a US$35 setup charge per CD, but this would be a one-time cost. (Oh, and a US$20 fee for UPC barcode to allow digital downloads.) A bigger problem is dealing with the income stream; whoever receives it is going to have to deal with taxes, or else we're going to have to set something up like a 501©3 non-profit organization (not easy). Still, using CD Baby as a potential back-door to iTunes and other bigger distributors is enticing.

 

So, like I said, I know there are people here that have been working on this problem for a long time. Some of you are still here, some are gone with the wind. It's impossible to promote and distribute a product that doesn't exist. OTOH, at this point in the game it's hard to come up with product that doesn't have some sort of future promo plan. What we need is some sort of master deadline for all the songs to make the CD. Although helpful, completing my song by Jan. 31st only means that it will be (possibly) the 3rd song ready for a 7-song CD; it won't go anywhere until more songs are ready. If it helps logistically, two 4-song EPs could be released (half tsunami/half hurricane), even though that would mean incurring an additional US$55 in CD Baby fees.

 

On the local level, I'd like to have some CDs to peddle. Has anyone played "Tears" or "Reaching" in a live setting? Do "Reaching" collaborators have rights to cover "Tears", and vice versa (for the purpose of promoting donations)? I'd like to be able to cover some of the tunes, if possible. (According to the FOF website, it appears all I need do is mention the artist and the website.) At the very least I'd like to be able to make up some cards that point to a website where people can make their donations for the CDs/songs. What are "Tears" and "Reaching" collaborators doing for live performances? Or, what have they done already?

 

Anyway, just trying to understand all this. Sorry if I ruffled anyone's feathers; that was not my intent. If you guys can clue me in, that'd be great.

[nursers]

No feather ruffled at all - will attempt to respond to your points when I get the chance

[Gruuve]

Eric (aka RBG):

 

Great post! I have similar questions and thoughts about it.

 

Just out of curiosity, there used to be the site called www.MP3.com. Bands and musicians could simply upload their music and artwork, and identify which songs were freebies or samples. Folks who listened and liked it could order a CD. The site would burn the CD, put the artwork on the J-card and CD, and mail it to them. They got 50% of the sales price for doing that.

 

MP3.com has become something totally different now. Does CDBaby do something similar? Do you have to send them the CD's to stock, or do you just upload and burn the CD's? (I guess I could look this up my lazy self, eh?).

 

Dave

[Eric VB]

*bump* Just a little reminder. I know we're all busy with other things.

[Hooper]

Good bump, Ric.

 

Ive been kind of amazed at the lack of activity on this thread- especially considering that there are still some (Tsunami, Katrina) songs in progress and at this point absolutely no mechanism in place for promotion, distribution and fund-raising once they are finished.

 

Do the folks working on these songs realize that?

 

My observation of FOF began late in December 04, a couple of weeks after the tsunami. At that point there was a lot of enthusiasm so soon after the disaster. When Tears hit the street there was a storm of promotional activity and in the following weeks Tears raised something over $1500 for disaster relief via the pay per download method. The main spark plug for the promotional effort appeared to be Shars although there were a number of others involved also. By the time Reaching hit the street in March, Shars and the rest of the promotional machine had essentially moved on. Also at that time, the fundraising method was changed to a pledge system. There were no fundraising updates posted on the FOF site after early March but as far as I know Reaching might have raised a few hundred dollars in pledges- mostly from the participating players and their families and friends.

 

So, as far as I know- Maybe the spirit of Faces of Friendship is still (at least barely) alive but thats all. Hence, the perceived need to explore for a different approach.

(see Idea posted above)

 

So Ric- the motivation for the idea has to do with trying to set up an operating model where we can have some fun collaborating musically, critiquing each others work, learning more about music and recording, making new friends, and not be stuck with the non-musical task of going out there and trying to pimp the product. Lets face it- a lot more people may listen to our music if its free. The motivation for players to participate comes if those who are participating are having so much fun that others will pay ($$ to disaster relief) for the privilage to play too.

[bdemon]

The cool thing about CD Baby is that they'll put the songs on just about every major digital site: iTunes, Napster, Rhapsody, etc. Then they keep track of who downloads what from where and pay up when reported. They used to have a section where you could donate all profits to charities, but I can't find the link on my page. I'll do a bit more searching later.

 

I'm open to these different ideas of contributing cash to get the projects completed, but I'll keep reading all of youse thoughts and see what we come up with.

[nursers]

Thanks everyone for the excellent comments

 

I'm still tending toward CD Baby myself...

[Gruuve]

I am certainly not at all opposed to the idea of contributing some cash as part of the collaboration effort. I would do that anyway in one of the disaster-related cases, so that's no big deal. If you were doing a CD completely by yourself to sell on CDBaby, for instance, you'd have to put some cash into it.

 

So, what do we need to do to move forward? Can we build a plan to actually make this happen?

 

Dave

[Billster]

Well, it looks like the Katrina branches are starting to bear fruit

 

I really like Kendrix's tune, Oh Katrina. Nice quirky feel to it.

 

So it looks like we have three Katrina songs, and the same number of Tsunami songs. There's Ted's acoustic version of Tears We Share, and at least two viable mixes of Rebuild, if that group can reach a consensus

 

Eight tracks sounds a like a viable package.

 

"Songs for Healing", anyone?

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by Billster:

... at least two viable mixes of Rebuild, if that group can reach a consensus

 

Eight tracks sounds a like a viable package.

 

"Songs for Healing", anyone?

Actually, three mixes with one that was an arrangement that took it a different direction. It wouldn't be ridiculous to put two different arrangements on there, would it? Why not make it 9 nine tracks...

 

Dave

[Billster]

Dave, I consider the two viable "Rebuild" mixes to be mine and Offramp's.

 

Your early mix, mine, and Paul's are all of a similar vibe. I like mine best

 

Offramp's is a true remix with some new instruments added.

[Gruuve]

Billster, I don't consider my mix to be viable...didn't put enough work into it. I'll have to listen back to your's and Paul's, but I definitely considered one of those two viable (just can't remember which), and I consider Offramp's viable as well.

 

Dave

[PBBPaul]

Hey...

 

Are we talking about "Rebuild" again?

 

FWIW, Here's my mix again.

I'd love to see this whole thing come to some sort of fruition.

 

Oh yeah... I like mine best.

[PBBPaul]

Originally posted by PBBPaul:

Hey...

 

Are we talking about "Rebuild" again?

I guess not.

[nursers]

 

Give it time - it always takes a bit

[Eric VB]

PBBPaul, yes, the "Rebuild" thread has spilled over to here now.

 

It looks like you guys sent a bunch of new tracks to Offramp and are waiting to hear back from him. I did sneak a listen to some of the mixes and I agree that there's room for both Offramp's mix and one of the others. I think they're significantly different enough.

 

bdemon, I went googling and came up with this link . If you scroll/search down the page for "Katrina", according to this guy (and others) CDBaby had something set up, but it ended Oct. 25. It seems we are a bit late to the party.

[Eric VB]

There's an interesting discussion at MARSH that sounds oddly familiar. I'm still reading ...

 

[edit: For anybody that cares, the language isn't quite "family time" if you follow into the next thread. A lot of the bickering they have wouldn't be an issue here, as we all agreed to a charity -- Red Cross -- when we signed up. If anybody has an issue with legalities, we can draw up paper documents to be signed yadda yadda yadda. Still reading ... ]

[Eric VB]

Ok, so as I read it, we're leaning towards heading down the path of the other group, i.e., a compilation released through CDBaby for the purpose of raising money for charity. (That's the synopsis, in case you didn't want to read the whole shpeal over there.) One of us should probably contact the Exec. Producer and find out how they've set things up on CDBaby. (I assume some of "us" are also over "there", so if you are that'd be easier than someone like, say me, signing up over there as a n00b.)

 

The only way I can see it working is that someone, the executive producer, handles the submission to CDBaby and the income stream from sales. Sure, 100% goes to charity. But I've seen this problem before, where a "middleman" enters into a charitable contribution. Person A makes a donation and claims it on his tax form. Person B actually receives the donation and sends it to the charity, and also claims it on his tax form. (One donation is now being claimed twice.) Anyone know how to make this work?

 

In the first (3 page) thread I linked to, I think, someone mentioned setting up a for-profit label just to handle the money. (For-profit because it is quite difficult to set up a non-profit.) In reality, the label just hands over all of the money to, in this case, the Red Cross. Does this sound like a good idea?

 

Do we need to worry about publishing? Should each songwriter just self-publish for this project? (What did you guys do for the first two FOF songs?)

 

Any other issues?

[Gruuve]

Offramp has been kind enough to send me his final mix of Rebuild as an uncompressed WAV/AIF file, so I have that one and can forward to whomover might need it for inclusion into whatever we end up doing.

 

Dave

[Eric VB]

Anyone still around from the already released tsunami songs, "Tears" and "Reaching"? Do those songs want to be included on a CDBaby release? Does someone (Nursers?) have both WAV and mp3 formats of those songs for CD and digital downloads, respectively?

 

Is everybody from "Rebuild" satisfied with Offramp's final mix? If you want to include one of the other mixes, can you guys set a deadline for that?

 

I assume any tsunami song other than the 3 mentioned above have been abandoned. Is that correct?

 

It appears both "Oh Katrina" and "Primitive Existance" are done? Are you guys on board for a CDBaby release? (I know I PM'd you recently, Ted, but are there any updates on "Bad Wind"?)

 

[Ok, a bit of the carriage in front of the horse there, I know. We still haven't decided if we're doing CDBaby or something else, but that seems to be the consensus thus far.]

 

It just occurred to me that a Mardi Gras release date would be kind of appropriate. Unfortunately I just checked and we're looking at February 28th. That's 6 days away; I don't think that's going to happen.

 

It's about 6 months after Katrina hit New Orleans, Aug. 29, and also Mississippi.

 

The Asian Tsunami hit Dec. 26, 2004, about 14 months ago.

[PBBPaul]

I haven't heard Offramp's final mix yet. Perhaps Dave would be willing to share?

 

Dave?

[Gruuve]

Hey:

 

Yes, I'll post an MP3 of offramp's mix tonight...

 

Ping Hooper about Reaching Out...I'm sure he's hip with including it. I'm hip with including Primitive Existence and Rebuild arrangement #2 (Offramp's production).

 

Dave