HiFi Hilarity

[Rog]

What's everyone's thoughts on those people who are seriously into HiFi? I don't understand how they can spend serious cash on speakers which have a freq. response that is far from flat. If a track is mixed and mastered on flat-response monitors then surely, in order to hear what the artist, the mixer and the mastering person heard, flat is best. Are they after perfect reproduction or what? I don't understand how they can spend £100,00/inch on speaker wire when most studios use decent, but relatively inexpensive stuff. I don't understand how they can spend a HUGE amount of money on a CD player when CDs inherently sound shitty. I don't understand how they can argue about which is the best blank CDR. They're all the same otherwise computer files would be corrupted. I don't understand why the adverts for this gear feature large wooden-floored rooms with lots of glass doors everywhere. Reflection city. I mean, are they serious or what? So what's the deal? Shouldn't these people spend the cash on a set of ADAMs, a digital CDROM in a computer, a good digital soundcard and some excellent convertors. Oh, and a killer listening room? Wouldn't that be WAY cheaper than some of the stuff I see in these magazines? Would it sound better?

[halljams]

I'm pretty sure these are the same people who pay 20,000 dollars to be a member at a golf course. You know the answer Rod; A sense of belonging to something.

[MusicWorkz]

i fell ya, but a friend of mine just bought a flat screen TV and paid something like $3K for it. I was chiding him for spending that much on a TV when he turned to me and pointed out the cost of my Triton.... I try not to talk about other folks passions considering ous comes in with a built in G.A.S. factory...

[Moronix]

[quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]What's everyone's thoughts on those people who are seriously into HiFi? I don't understand how they can spend serious cash on speakers which have a freq. response that is far from flat. If a track is mixed and mastered on flat-response monitors then surely, in order to hear what the artist, the mixer and the mastering person heard, flat is best. Are they after perfect reproduction or what? I don't understand how they can spend £100,00/inch on speaker wire when most studios use decent, but relatively inexpensive stuff. I don't understand how they can spend a HUGE amount of money on a CD player when CDs inherently sound shitty. I don't understand how they can argue about which is the best blank CDR. They're all the same otherwise computer files would be corrupted. I don't understand why the adverts for this gear feature large wooden-floored rooms with lots of glass doors everywhere. Reflection city. I mean, are they serious or what? So what's the deal? Shouldn't these people spend the cash on a set of ADAMs, a digital CDROM in a computer, a good digital soundcard and some excellent convertors. Oh, and a killer listening room? Wouldn't that be WAY cheaper than some of the stuff I see in these magazines? Would it sound better?[/b][/quote]I would also rather they spend $$$$$ on cleaning up the power comming out of the wall socket. The Blank CDR thing has a specification called BLUR-RATE that is a real technical consideration. I worked at Hovland for a while and anyone would be impressed to see that operation, their amp and preamp sound REALLY good too. A conserted DIY effort at home can get an amp that sounds as good as 10,000$ units for a few hundred $'s. Listen to a good SE 300b amp befor you trash the whole "Hi-Fi" world. If you want a tast of real hard core DIY go to [url=http://www.audioasylum.com]www.audioasylum.com[/url] and start reading posts. Stereophile Mag is the most gross proponent of the hi-dollar "Mine is better (more $$$$) than yours"; but then I see elements of this same macho garbage in Mix! Get AudioXpress or Vacuum Tube Valley mags for DIY low hype audiophile projects Robert Morin

[Tedster]

Hear y'all, it is funny... Snobs...

[The Thrashole]

THese guys are funny as hell. There are some things that will help a good audio system. But man some of this stuff is absolutely nuts. HAs anyone seen the wattgate wall sockets? 90 dollars for an audio grade power receptacle. There is a 8 foot pair of speaker cable that is 23,000 dollars. and lets not forget the beak.(a metal cone that magically improves the sound)

[Rog]

[quote]Originally posted by morinix: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Rog: [b]What's everyone's thoughts on those people who are seriously into HiFi? I don't understand how they can spend serious cash on speakers which have a freq. response that is far from flat. If a track is mixed and mastered on flat-response monitors then surely, in order to hear what the artist, the mixer and the mastering person heard, flat is best. Are they after perfect reproduction or what? I don't understand how they can spend £100,00/inch on speaker wire when most studios use decent, but relatively inexpensive stuff. I don't understand how they can spend a HUGE amount of money on a CD player when CDs inherently sound shitty. I don't understand how they can argue about which is the best blank CDR. They're all the same otherwise computer files would be corrupted. I don't understand why the adverts for this gear feature large wooden-floored rooms with lots of glass doors everywhere. Reflection city. I mean, are they serious or what? So what's the deal? Shouldn't these people spend the cash on a set of ADAMs, a digital CDROM in a computer, a good digital soundcard and some excellent convertors. Oh, and a killer listening room? Wouldn't that be WAY cheaper than some of the stuff I see in these magazines? Would it sound better?[/b][/quote]I would also rather they spend $$$$$ on cleaning up the power comming out of the wall socket. The Blank CDR thing has a specification called BLUR-RATE that is a real technical consideration. I worked at Hovland for a while and anyone would be impressed to see that operation, their amp and preamp sound REALLY good too. A conserted DIY effort at home can get an amp that sounds as good as 10,000$ units for a few hundred $'s. Listen to a good SE 300b amp befor you trash the whole "Hi-Fi" world. If you want a tast of real hard core DIY go to [url=http://www.audioasylum.com]www.audioasylum.com[/url] and start reading posts. Stereophile Mag is the most gross proponent of the hi-dollar "Mine is better (more $$$$) than yours"; but then I see elements of this same macho garbage in Mix! Get AudioXpress or Vacuum Tube Valley mags for DIY low hype audiophile projects Robert Morin[/b][/quote]So how does the setup I suggested compare?

[Hippie]

I used to be one of those hi-fi geeks back in the late 70's & early 80's. It's weird, it gets to be like an addiction where the drug is 'sonic purity' and your tolerance is going up and up. There is really no end to it. Now, I don't really care too much as long as it dont rattle and the distortion is below 10%. :)

[Hush]

Don't be so quick to write them off. Some of these tweakers know their stuff. They ARE concerned with listening environment. >I don't understand how they can spend a HUGE >amount of money on a CD player when CDs >inherently sound shitty Maybe all of the CD players you've heard are shitty cause you haven't spent enough. ;-) Here's something a tweaker friend turned me onto. CD players are susceptible to vibration. At first I didn't believe it. But my friend had developed an isolation system and we did some listening. His system definitely improved the sound. I heard a noticeable improvement in transients. They seemed sharper less slurred. His theory is that the vibration is causing read errors which are then inaccurately corrected. Reducing the errors improved the sound. I really didn't think it was going to effect the sound as much as it did but it did. So maybe 20k for a pair of connectors is a little overboard but some of what these guys do works and shouldn't be written off. Marc

[Synthguy]

Nah, I got the purity bug. Fortunately you don't have to spend $10,000 to get an awesome stereo. The better components do make a difference. Marantz, Harman Kardon, and Rotel are all great stereo makers, especially Rotel. I bought an Arcam amp and it's superb. Everything sounds like you're in the mastering room. I'll never go back.

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by DigitalShaman: [b] Here's something a tweaker friend turned me onto. CD players are susceptible to vibration. At first I didn't believe it. But my friend had developed an isolation system and we did some listening. His system definitely improved the sound. I heard a noticeable improvement in transients. They seemed sharper less slurred. His theory is that the vibration is causing read errors which are then inaccurately corrected. Reducing the errors improved the sound. I really didn't think it was going to effect the sound as much as it did but it did.[/b][/quote]If they're getting that much vibration, I'd say someone's blastin' the stereo at a pretty good volume anyway. I suppose instead of spending THAT much money on a CD player, an audiophile could: * Move the speakers away from the CD player * Put foam under the CD player So what I'd like to know is: do you notice a huge difference in the quality of the sound, as you describe with this isolation system, if you are using headphones and the speakers are turned off?

[Skip_dup1]

Yeah, I have a friend who`s a bit obsessive about it. What gets me is how many of our conversations go like this: "Are those some sweet highs or what?" "What?" "Great highs, right?" "No thanks, mon. I`m plenty high." "What?" "I SAID I`M ALREADY HIGH!" "NO,I`M TALKING ABOUT-" So he then has to turn it down to, like, 1 so we can hear each other. I`m not sure I get the point.

[Hush]

>If they're getting that much vibration, I'd say >someone's blastin' the stereo at a pretty good >volume anyway. It was loud but reasonably. We could still talk (well maybe a bit louder than usual :-). We were using my 10 year old $500 Sony cd player nothing esoteric. >* Move the speakers away from the CD player Adding length to the cable will change the sound. ;-) >* Put foam under the CD player Well that's kind of like what he did. Just he used a small innertube filled with silicone oil for added damping attached to a base for added densitity. >...do you notice a huge difference in the >quality of the sound... if you are using >headphones and the speakers are turned off? Haven't tried that yet. But I suspect it might still give a benefit because it will also dampen vibration that the cd player creates. I'll plug in my Senn HD600's and give a listen with and with out. Give me a week to get to it. :thu: Marc

[teh dri]

i saw an old bosses snooty son sink 40,000 on a pair of speakers he also theatrically threw out half his cd collection becuase now he couldnt "tolerate the poor mixing" anymore, cause his speakers were so "amazing" oh boy oh boy oh boy all these home audiophiles are wacko's... all who replied in favour are wacko's too! bahahaha, but hey, keep on shelling that money out wacko's, cause hopefully those $$$ trickle into R&D and make normal life better well looking at audio gear in the last two decade that hasnt been happening but im hoping it will :p sound is so fucken relative anyway, and life is too short.

[gtrmac]

I work for one. He showed me an article about his living room in the Japanese version of Stereo Review. He has three sets of speakers in there and racks of amps, all tube of course. He's an amateur classical cellist and his wife is a piano teacher. I see it as a harmless but expensive religion. They worship classical music. There's some real hocus pocus but that's typical with most religions. The speaker wire thing kills me though. I've done a couple high end installs with him and the speaker wire part is a real Emperor's New Clothes type scene to me. I wish I could make that stuff. I'd like to retire soon.

[realtrance]

Honestly... honestly... when it comes right down to it.... no, I don't believe in the religion, any more than I believe in the excessive claims about the differences in quality people argue endlessly about with synths. In both cases, having a good, trained ear, listening to a wide range of music, learning enough of the science of sound to know what's causing what, goes 99% of the way towards making a difference, whether it's with a hi-fi or with a synth. You can spend $40k on speakers... or, you can get a good, carefully designed parametric equalizer and use it tastefully to take that 6.2kHZ peak out of your room's resonance and get basically the same result (or better). OTOH, if I were absolutely wealthy, with nothing better to spend my fortune on (and that would be a long list....), I'd consider the extra expenditure for such toys worthwhile, on the chance I might just happen into some combination that is aesthetically magical. rt

[Skip_dup1]

There`s a shop in N.Y.C. that specializes in plastic and rubber stuff (let`s cool the giggling, O.K?). You can get foam rubber sections in your choice of density and cut to size. I have one large medium density square for the guitar amps and two hi-density squares for the stereo speakers. I can crank `em up, within reason, even if I`m in an apartment. For those that know Chinatown, it`s right on Canal Street.

[Skip_dup1]

speaker wire really does make a difference-but the prices I`m hearing sound ridiculous. It`s worthwhile to avoid paying import charges.

[FoxTick]

[quote]Originally posted by DRiLoad: [b]i saw an old bosses snooty son sink 40,000 on a pair of speakers he also theatrically threw out half his cd collection becuase now he couldnt "tolerate the poor mixing" anymore, cause his speakers were so "amazing" oh boy oh boy oh boy [/b][/quote]i get a big kick out of folks like that....hmmm, let me guess, were they B&Ws? those speakers are notorious for being very 'revealing' not to mention expensive too. i have nothing special, just a set of pie-in-ear speakers and a sony receiver. EVERYTHING sounds good on this sysytem. not exceptional or bad....just good...and it's good enough for me. and this one is sure to make the hard-core audio nuts cringe....my speaker cables are of UNEQUAL LENGTH...ooohhh... :D hey *audiophiles*, click [url=http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hall/8701/Audio_BS.htm]here[/url] ..enjoy :)

[Tedster]

Hmmm, with the money they shell out, it'd probably be cheaper to just go out to the symphony, or the clubs every night. Can one improve on live sound? Especially unmiked live sound? I mean, go hear a little jazz trio play, say piano, upright bass, and drums (guy playing brushes or something). Anything you do upwards of that is artificial...I mean, the whole goal of recording is to as closely as possible approximate a live performance. So then the argument becomes "Steinway or Bosendorfer?" or "What sort of strings on the upright?" or "what kind of heads on the snare?" So, say, tonight, I want to hear Ravel's Symphony #3 in Db or something...and they're not performing it here in KC, but they are in Boston. Fly to Boston and attend the performance. I'm still ahead monetarily. :D :D :D (tongue firmly planted in cheek).

[EXAGON]

If all those HIIIIII FIIIIII fans would know that with a fraction of the price they could have a better quality just buying pro gears (Genelec, Crown, ...)

[gtrmac]

If you have the opportunity to see a good mastering studio you will see the place where audiophile mentality and the recording engineer mentality converge. This is most true for a mastering engineer that does classical or jazz work. At Sony studios in New York B+W speakers were in all the clasical mastering rooms and the #2 room had Dunleavy's. The #1 room has some massive array, the manufacturer escapes me. If I had the money I would love to have a set of B+W speakers with some Quad amps. Of course these systems are also installed in carefully designed rooms to optimise the sound. You can't deny that this stuff sounds great. It's just the voodoo that goes with the audiophile cult that's tough too accept. The heavy gauge AC cables defy logic. Actually I think I should start making them as a product. We used to make them for some of the engineers as a favor back at Sony.

[Charlie-brm]

Rog, those CD guys aren't the ones to worry about. You want to be concerned? Visit the tube and vinyl forums at Audio Asylum - a well earned name. These people don't respect our digital way of life and will do anything to impose their will on the weak minded. Mention CD and you'll probably get a steel toed boot to the face. And worse, they are actually very helpful, on topic and with fewer flames per thread. [url=http://www.audioasylum.com]Audio Asylum[/url]

[Synthguy]

[b][i]And worse, they are actually very helpful, on topic and with fewer flames per thread.[/b][/i] That's because musicians seem to be the most opinionated and ready to kill over philosophical differences. Why, I remember when we used to discuss music here... ;)