I Need Help Putting Togehter A PA For My Band

[Beatheavy]

We are just starting to get in rehearsal mode and we need to buy some PA gear. We are a 4, possible 5 piece rock band. lead vocal guitar / backing vocal bass drums / trigger samples and the possibility of an additional ginsu knife type (2nd guitar/vocals/samples. We're a little fuzzy as to what we should purchase. We know very little about PA gear. Not sure of the demensions of the room. but it's basicaly a room we built within a basement. I'd say medium to large size, low ceiling. We would like to run just vocals and samples through the PA. We have 2-3k to spend. Could you guys steer me in the right direction and help us get some decent gear. Something modular, ie.. Mixer/Power Amp/Cabs Thanx in advance

[Beatheavy]

anyone.......?

[Matt.Hepworth]

Depends on the room. Couple mons, couple mains, powered mixer, stands, cables, sm57's or PVM22's. Hit your nearest independent dealer for advice. Check out Peavey because they sound pretty good, don't cost a ton, and have a 5 year warranty. Don't buy those powered mackies! JBL is good but too expensive. Crate is cheap. Yamaha is too, but might be decent. Go to an independent dealer, NOT a superstore. They tend to be most truthful (with exceptions, of course) and they can get the lines the superstores can't.

[Tedster]

Hey Beat...see you've ditched the chomping devil and gone with Gonesh...(sitar music droning in background with the scent of sandalwood incense)... First of all, come up with a budget. And, think in terms of, who's going to pay for it? If it's going to be distributed among the band, it may be a bad idea to have everyone chip in money (each guy chips in $750 or something) because, then, when the band breaks up, you've got a problem. Better to make a list of what you'll need, and have people purchase individual components. That way, when the band breaks up, you can take your Crowns, the bass player can take his board, the drummer can take his monitors etc., and you won't be shooting at each other. Workhorse is the key, I think. Go hear several bands and, when you hear one that sounds pretty good, see what they're using. Ask them if the stuff is reliable or if they've had problems with it. Of course, listen to a variety of recommendations here, but, don't listen to those who say you've gotta have stuff that's way over your budget or you'll suck. The Matt had some good ideas for stuff that may be tailored to your budget. Just for bang for buck, I'd also suggest going to [url=http://www.carvin.com]www.carvin.com[/url] ...check some stuff out. They've got a pretty good reputation. Their stuff is mail order only, but they stand behind it, and if you aren't satisfied, their return policy is great. Not to mention, they've got a great variety of systems for every budget.

[Matt.Hepworth]

Yup, Carvin is pretty good too - and affordable. Tedster had a good point about dividing gear after breakup. I've never had that problem because I've always bought EVERYTHING (exception of drum mics). Yup, good advice that old Tedster has.

[Tedster]

:D Thanks Matt. Unfortunately, I've, uhh..."been there, done that". It's an expensive and painful lesson...

[gtrmac]

I was going to recommend JBL Eons. Someone said too expensive. Maybe but they are good and sound good too. We installed a setup in a coffehouse kind of club and it sounds nice for a small band. Later the owner wanted to do some DJ nights so we put in two more powered speakers and added a subwoofer. The speakers can be used as floor wedges or stand mounted. We originally were going to use Peavey but they are actually expensive here in Japan.

[Cowfingers]

Posted by The Matt: [quote] Don't buy those powered mackies! [/quote]why not - i thought they were supposed to be the bees knees?

[Hippie]

Look for a PA that is used out of your local trading paper. A lot of musical equipment has a poor re-sale, which can be beneficial to you. I've seen good P.A.'s going for 20 cents on the dollar. Matt

[Rim]

You may also want to rent a PA to get a good test. The Mars near me rents PA systems. Totally agree with not sharing in buying equipment.

[GZsound]

I have been suggesting the all in one PA/AMP systems to a lot of friends. For the money they are hard to beat. Carvin, Yamaha and Peavey all make pretty decent powered systems. Carvin has a three amp version that includes graphic EQ, effects, phantom power, plenty of inputs and all in an easy to transport unit. Yamaha, Carvin and Peavey all make reasonable priced 15" PA speakers and monitors. I do not ever suggest powered mains or powered monitors because of the cost and the inability to upgrade for reasonable cost. I just put together a small PA system with a 20 input rack mount mixer, dual 15 band graphic, ART effects unit, Yamaha 400 watt per side amp, two fifteen inch mains and four 10" monitors with cords for under fifteen hundred bucks.

[coyote]

I agree w/ this approach. You really don't need to get too complex at this point. Most likely any 'big' gigs you end up doing the promoter will supply the PA. So focus on getting something easy to use which will work in your rehearsal space and for the average bar or block party. GZSound's recommendations do exactly that. [quote]Originally posted by GZsound@hotmail.com: [b]I have been suggesting the all in one PA/AMP systems to a lot of friends. For the money they are hard to beat. Carvin, Yamaha and Peavey all make pretty decent powered systems. Carvin has a three amp version that includes graphic EQ, effects, phantom power, plenty of inputs and all in an easy to transport unit. Yamaha, Carvin and Peavey all make reasonable priced 15" PA speakers and monitors. I do not ever suggest powered mains or powered monitors because of the cost and the inability to upgrade for reasonable cost. I just put together a small PA system with a 20 input rack mount mixer, dual 15 band graphic, ART effects unit, Yamaha 400 watt per side amp, two fifteen inch mains and four 10" monitors with cords for under fifteen hundred bucks.[/b][/quote]

[Matt.Hepworth]

[quote]Originally posted by Cowfingers: [b]Posted by The Matt: [quote] Don't buy those powered mackies! [/quote]why not - i thought they were supposed to be the bees knees?[/b][/quote]Instuments dissapear. For one of our tests re ran classical music through them and others. On the mackies, the cello part was GONE! Violin moved to the back and sounded like it was in a cave, horn section sounded like they were pointed away from the mics. None of the other speakers did this. Also, the sweet spot is about 1' wide and you have to be within 10' of the speaker.

[Tom Capasso]

I'm going through something similar now. We collectively own a Stageworks (Sam Ash brand) 4 channel with 4 cabs (10"+horn). We need more channels, and the thing is distorting. We all have cheap mics as well. We don't play often enough to support a large purchase (maybe 5-6 gis/year). I'd just as soon rent, but the rest of the guys haven't seen it that way. The drummer wants to think about a minor upgrade to a Yamaha powered amp+ speakers for about $800 (or some other brand in that range). It'll be tough for some guys to get up th cash. It also doesn't allow for Ted's well-thought-out "multiple ownership" arrangement. The rig we have now cost about $300 (between 6 of us), so it's no big expense now.... We rehearse in a studio, so practice isn't an issue. We just don't play enough for a full-blown rig.... Good luck in your search Beatheavy - sorry I couldn't help more... Tom

[koolkid]

you always look back and the things you didnt think mattered become the contention point what tedster said was some worldly advice,dont buy a pa as a band per se the jbl eons are good i agree with the poster,i heard the powered mackies at a club and thought they were outstanding for 2 to 3k and a basement rehearsal studio you should be able to get gear that should perform to you expectations and needs no problem, 3 sm57s with stands $400+/-(in this price range i wouldnt go with anything but the shures for live sound) an 8 channel mixer with a preamp $200 +/- two powered jbls or mackies $1,200 +/- 2 or 3 small monitors $600 for outboard gear a compressor,multi effect and an equalizer $600 total 3,000 and with this set up here you would be able to use it at almost any small club if you had to ;)

[michael saulnier]

I have a couple of the JBL Eon 15 unpowered cabs and a Carvin 700 watt 12 channel mixer/poweramp. I am happy with this setup. It's reasonably powerful and very easy for one person to move around in an ordinary car. My whole setup cost about $1800 ($750 for the Carvin, $300 ea for the JBL's, plus about $50 for the cab stands and cables ,plus about $400 worth of mics and cables). This setup has plenty of volume for rehearsals and small gigs, and where there is a bigger PA, the JBL's made decent monitors (and are designed to be on stands, lay back as monitors, or stand straight up as side wash). I'd third Tedster's point... make sure each person has "their" part of the PA or have one person buy it all! There's trouble and hurt feelings in trying to seperate things later fairly. Don't forget that you'll also need some decent mic's and stands. I'd also suggest you get enough mic's that you can mic the amps... this will prepare you during practice to work with mic'd amps... not the first time you play a gig. If you get used to a consistant sound and mix from your mic'd amps, you'll only have to "turn it up" on the main PA when you play bigger rooms. You may be able to get a decent deal on mics from Musiciansfriend.com... I think I saw a package of SM58's and SM57's on sale that included cables and stands... Good Luck! guitplayer

[Dak Lander]

What Ted said! If you're not concerned with more than what you posted. The Carvin PA1200 will do what you need but be aware of the (band breakup syndrom). You might be better of to purchase separate pieces of the puzzle & if the band goes away, each takes their own piece away with them. On the other hand, it may not be a bad idea to, if you have the funds available, buy it all on your own & then the band members can come and go as YOU dictate.

[GZsound]

Another suggestion. Since I had planned on renting out my little PA system, I needed some inexpensive mics. I bought six Samson R11 mics simply because they were cheap...$25.00 each. Guess what we found out? As long as you leave them on a stand, they are warmer and have more output than the 57/58's we had been using in the band. They have more handling noise and I can't speak to their reliability compared to the bullet proof Shure's, but they sure sound good. We played a festival last month and I asked the sound guy to see what he thought since I used a Samson on my vocals and our other lead singer used a 58. He said the difference was quite noticeable and was going to pick up some Samsons...go figger.

[SFOracle]

I would recommend that everyone who sings or has their instrument mic'd purchased their own mic. I think an SM58 sounds great for most vocalists, but for myself, I prefer either a Shure Beta 87 or a Sennheiser E855 vocal mic. However, make sure that all mics purchased for a road PA are road worthy - i.e. an AKG C3000B may sound great, but it is not really a live sound mic. Arguably, I would put a lot more attention to your monitor setup than your mains. Your monitors are what you hear and will impact your sound more than your mains. Get full range monitors - I like a 2x10" configuration, but a single 12" or 15" with a horn also works well. Avoid those crappy little hotspots - they don't cut it for a rock band. Be sure your monitor amp(s) can run at 2 ohms for extended periods of time; it is pretty easy to overload an amp by stringing too many speakers in parallel. Every time you daisy chain on an additional monitor you drop the impedance load that the amp sees. For amps, lower impedance = greater load = more heat = see next point. Be sure your amp(s) have thermal shutdowns - it is better to have a drop out than to fry an amp. For new gear, Carvin and Peavey offer a good bang for your buck. However I would also checkout ebay for used gear.

[Beatheavy]

Hey guys, Thanx for all the tips. We're definitely looking towards going the modular route. We're looking at the JBL sf25's(for mains) - A 1000 watt Crown amp - A Mackie 1202 VLZ Pro and A graphic Eq. We already have some Beta 58's and 57's. Plus we have an Eventide H3000se - Acouple of DBX 160a's and an Alesis Microverb lll. Since it's a pretty small space, we decided not to go for any monitors. This PA is just for rehearsal purposes. Any comment on this setup would be greatly appreciated. Once again, thanx for all of your suggestions.

[Tedster]

Oh, and another thing, when you talk about power amps...make sure the thing is big enough to handle the cabs you're driving. 1000 watt Crown, 1000 watts into what? A lot of stores beef up the power rating by saying "1000 watts mono bridged into 2 ohms" or something, when you've got 8 ohm cabinets and it's really only delivering 200 watts. I'll admit to being stupid about that stuff for the most part, but make sure you've got the power to handle what you need. Crowns are kickass amps, that's not what I'm saying. Just make sure you get one big enough to do the job.

[surfmonkey]

[quote]Originally posted by The Matt: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Cowfingers: [b]Posted by The Matt: [quote] Don't buy those powered mackies! [/quote]why not - i thought they were supposed to be the bees knees?[/b][/quote]Instuments dissapear. For one of our tests re ran classical music through them and others. On the mackies, the cello part was GONE! Violin moved to the back and sounded like it was in a cave, horn section sounded like they were pointed away from the mics. None of the other speakers did this. Also, the sweet spot is about 1' wide and you have to be within 10' of the speaker.[/b][/quote]Personally speaking I think the Mackies kick the crap out the JBL's. Well maybe that's exagerating, but they deinitely sound fuller to me. I saw a band last night that hade a pair of Mackie 15's with the Mackie sub and it was definitely kickin'. Clear, punchy, and loud enough for a small night club.