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UNIVISION and Music Overheard at Restaurants:


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Yeah, I know this is not in spanish.... muy poco comprende espanol (that's for your comedic pleasure...).

 

 

HOWEVER....

 

This seems like the appropriate place for some answers to some questions I've wonder about:

 

I'm always paying attention to the music I hear in Mexican restaurants. It seems like a lot of what I hear, and what's on Univision, has a very similar production sound....

 

...Are there perhaps just a couple of studios that does a lot of production for most of the music? Just curious....

 

What's with the growly hoarse-sounding singing that now and then seems to pop up? Is there more of a cultural acceptance of that kind of sound in Mexico, etc..? I've seen some older woman sing on Univision that sounds like... Joe Cocker mixed with Darth Vader, but people seem to love it...?

 

Lots of Roland drum machine sounds?

 

How big in reality, are these sort of assembly-line pop groups they always have lip-syncing on Sabado Gigante at those huge outdoor shows? Is that kind of thing the mainstream in Mexico, or whereever? Or is it just an excuse to see a big show with dancers?

 

What's with all of these sort of pseudo-mariachi bands having guitar players with full stacks? Who makes those amps, they always have intesting names on them? Its always funny looking, the band spread out on the studio stage with their little respective setups, and the guitar player with a full stack... all just to lip sync, and it's not even heavy metal.... Interesting.

 

 

ASIDE:

 

On behalf of the male populace of the U.S. I would like to thank the producers of UNIVISION for providing the poor people here, who can't afford the Playboy channel, an alternative.

 

What's with the Hot Babes in Leather dancing around the Christmas tree all about? I make it a habit now to watch Univision Christmas morning - they always have Young Nubile Women in Interesting and Provocative Attire dancing around a Christmas tree, with what appears to be a Television Family looking on. Quite surreal... and who is this woman that always appears on Sabado Gigante with the Really Big Thingies, that *seems* to be a "singer", but I'm not really sure, but she's, like got these, uhm .. yeah.

 

?

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

I've seen some older woman sing on Univision that sounds like... Joe Cocker mixed with Darth Vader, but people seem to love it...?

 

Hehehehe..Chavela Vargas, maybe? Don´t you understand old icons?. Wait until Bob Dylan gets 80.

 

ASIDE:

 

On behalf of the male populace of the U.S. I would like to thank the producers of UNIVISION for providing the poor people here, who can't afford the Playboy channel, an alternative.

 

What's with the Hot Babes in Leather dancing around the Christmas tree all about? I make it a habit now to watch Univision Christmas morning - they always have Young Nubile Women in Interesting and Provocative Attire dancing around a Christmas tree, with what appears to be a Television Family looking on. Quite surreal... and who is this woman that always appears on Sabado Gigante with the Really Big Thingies, that *seems* to be a "singer", but I'm not really sure, but she's, like got these, uhm .. yeah.

 

 

?

[/b]

 

I don´t know about Mexican TV, but it sounds familiar. Christmas eve TV specials in Spain often feature strippers, and these programs are usually rerun on Christmas mornings. Anyway, full nudity on TV is widely accepted here without much fuss. That might be the reason why Spanish TV is so popular in the north of Morocco (they say it is soccer, but I´ve been there and I´ve seen their faces, hehehe)

 

JoseC.

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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

 

Siempre le pongo atención a la música que escucho en los restaurantes mexicanos. Parece que mucho de lo que oigo y lo que pasan por UNIVISION tiene una producción similar...

 

... Hay acaso sólo un par de estudios que hacen la mayoría de ésas producciones? Sólo curioseaba...

 

Qué tan grandes son ésos grupos POP que aparecen en Sábado Gigante y otros programas similares haciendo "playback" ? Es la regla en México ? O es sólo una excusa para ver un show con bailarinas?

 

POR OTRO LADO:

 

En nombre de la población masculina de los US quiero agradecer a los productores de UNIVISION por proveerle a los pobres que no pueden gastar en el PlayBoy channel una alternativa.

 

 

Just some suggestions, Chip:

 

1) Start visiting new restaurants. Forget about those "green burrito" things and wheath tortillas. Real tortillas are made from corn.

2) Stop watching TV.

3) Get a REAL trip to Mexico, I mean, Mexico City, Guadalajara or another INside city so you can do a better judgement.

 

Your comment is as unfair just like if all mexicans were thinking all americans are serial killers because of what we see in CNN http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

That is why we were very careful while selecting the title for this Forum. It is not exclusively about "latin" culture -meaning the spanish speaking population living in the US-, but about music -and the process of making it- in SPANISH. Globally.

 

There is a whole world beyond "Taco Bell", Univision and Sabado Gigante, my friend... I don't mean that is BAD. None is, but just do not think the rest of Mexico is the same than what you see on TV.

 

Regarding your question, I dont think you are right. There are a lot of fine musicians -mexicans and "latins"- in the US. It could happen UNIVISION has its own standards regarding the music and bands they like to play in their shows.

 

GusTraX

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

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Lip Syncing is what production or whoever is in charge of audio wants, I guess they are lazy and they don't want to deal with mixing and/or audio problems is very common in spanish tv in the USA to see that,is very easy to just load the CD on a CD player and let the musicians fake it, I don't like it , but people [unless your are a musician of course] don't even pay attention to it, no cables not even power cords?, I hate that!

 

That's one of the reasons I don't watch much tv, unless thre's a good program [very rare].

 

ViLo

 

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Originally posted by ViLo:

Lip Syncing is what production or whoever is in charge of audio wants, I guess they are lazy and they don't want to deal with mixing and/or audio problems is very common in spanish tv in the USA to see that,is very easy to just load the CD on a CD player and let the musicians fake it, I don't like it , but people [unless your are a musician of course] don't even pay attention to it, no cables not even power cords?, I hate that!

 

 

I do hate it too, however ViLO is 100% right: TV Production teams do not want to deal with live mixing bands. They preffer the Lip-sync thing.

I have done it when appearing on TV... but we DO insert cables to our instruments ans mics... just in case someone like YOU is watching us http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

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Yo también lo odio, sin embargo ViLo tiene toda la razón: Los equipos de producción de TV no quieren pelearse con la mezcla en vivo de las bandas. Prefieren hacer "playback" siempre. Yo mismo lo he hecho cuando hemos salido en TV... pero nosotros SI ponemos cables a nuestros instrumentos y micrófonos... por si acaso alguien como USTEDES nos está viendo http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

GusTraX

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

Your comment is as unfair just like if all mexicans were thinking all americans are serial killers because of what we see in CNN http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

That is why we were very careful while selecting the title for this Forum. It is not exclusively about "latin" culture -meaning the spanish speaking population living in the US-, but about music -and the process of making it- in SPANISH. Globally.

 

There is a whole world beyond "Taco Bell", Univision and Sabado Gigante, my friend... I don't mean that is BAD. None is, but just do not think the rest of Mexico is the same than what you see on TV.

 

GusTraX

 

Boy, do I hear this shit all the time too. Being from Brazil I often get the 'women walk naked in the beach and people get murdered and everyone is promiscous because of what I heard happens at carnaval' speech/questions.

 

I see a lot of crappy television shows in brazil too with lip synching. But knowing anything about the music tradition in brazil (tom jobim to cite an example) shows how silly it would be to generalize about the 'music scene' in brazil based on that. Think of how silly pro-wrestling really is. I still rather be tied to a chair watching lip synching for the rest of the mounth that watch 5 minutes of pro-wrestling. Can you generalize american culture based on that?

 

And yes, a lot of people outside the US have an idea that people get their heads blow off in high schools/mcdonald's/office buildings all the time. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif

 

Rod

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

1) Start visiting new restaurants. Forget about those "green burrito" things and wheath tortillas. Real tortillas are made from corn.

 

A) What the hell are you talking about?

B) *Why* are you talking about it?

 

2) Stop watching TV.

 

I'll do what I want.

 

3) Get a REAL trip to Mexico, I mean, Mexico City, Guadalajara or another INside city so you can do a better judgement.

 

I don't want to, it's not that important.

 

Your comment is as unfair

 

List exactly what comment you're refering to as being "unfair".

 

 

just like if all mexicans were thinking all americans are serial killers because of what we see in CNN

 

I never typecasted anyone, I made very specific remarks regarding what I have seen on Univision, which I presume is a manipulated depiction of reality. Thus the question.

 

There is a whole world beyond "Taco Bell", Univision and Sabado Gigante, my friend... I don't mean that is BAD. None is, but just do not think the rest of Mexico is the same than what you see on TV.

 

Note that I didn't say that. Note that I was asking of the ACTUAL relative popularity. This indicates I don't expect it to actually be that way.

 

IN FACT, an inciteful person would detect that I'm probing at the notion that Univision IS obviously a manufactured construct, just as the reality on television in the U.S. is.

 

Regarding your question, I dont think you are right. There are a lot of fine musicians -mexicans and "latins"- in the US.

 

Ok, now you get to demonstrate where in my post I said anything about the relative general musicianship of mexicans and "latins" *anywhere*?

 

In conclusion, I would like to say up yer nose with a rubber hose. You can stick your p.c. bs elsewhere; some of my best friends are hispanic, but are not qualified to answer the SPECIFIC questions I referred to.

Those were appropriate given this is in the EXPERT'S FORUM on MUSICPLAYER.COM. They find the things I've mentioned just as amusing as I do, but for some reason don't seem to have a hangup about it as you do. If you don't find the things I referred to amusing or interesting that's too bad. I was specific about what I was referencing, if you want to take it as a generalization - or outright mutate it into something far out, like the "fine musicians" reference - I can't figure out where I made a remark concerning the musical ability of "Mexicans and "latins" but "oh well".

 

I await your citing of WHERE I have made these affronts you claim.

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by Rod CA:

shows how silly it would be to generalize about the 'music scene' in brazil based on that.

 

Ok, your turn: WHERE WAS A GENERALIZATION MADE?

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Hehehehe..Chavela Vargas, maybe? Don´t you understand old icons?. Wait until Bob Dylan gets 80.

 

Ack. So that's what that is, she's had some hit song somewhere way back and ..."?" Or is she literally an analogue to Dylan?

 

I don´t know about Mexican TV, but it sounds familiar. Christmas eve TV specials in Spain often feature strippers, and these programs are usually rerun on Christmas mornings.

 

!!! Interesting....

 

How did that get started do you think? I mean, who was the first crazy guy that said "hey, what if we have some bimbos dance around for the Christmas show?", the producers flew it and and it actually happened? Then it became "tradition"???

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

 

Ack. So that's what that is, she's had some hit song somewhere way back and ..."?" Or is she literally an analogue to Dylan?

 

I am not sure that you saw Chavela, I was just guessing. Something between Joan Baez and Johnnie Cash, to establish some loose analogy.

 

!!! Interesting....

 

How did that get started do you think? I mean, who was the first crazy guy that said "hey, what if we have some bimbos dance around for the Christmas show?", the producers flew it and and it actually happened? Then it became "tradition"???

 

 

 

I am not sure. In Spain, it probably started in the 80´s, with the arrival of Tele5, the network then owned by Italy´s Silvio Berlusconi, that was full of variety shows with plenty of silicone boobs around, and late night soft core porn movies. What really kills me is that the main audience for that kind of shows now is your typical granny.

 

Anyway, I have to remind you that topless bathing is commonplace here, not only in ALL beaches, but also in most public swimming pools. I found the BASF/EMTEC ad debate in EQ very amusing, because it was much less revealing than many TV spots that are run here on national TV at any time of the day, without anyone paying much attention, much less complaining about them.

 

I once spent about one hour in a Dallas hotel room watching an American TV preacher, trying to find out whether he was really serious, or it was some weird commedy show (he was going to perform miracles, and he had about one dozen phone operators ready to receive reports of those miracles as they happened). He WAS serious: "place your hand on the screen over mine, and your kidney stones will go away..." Most unbelievable thing I´ve seen in my whole life.

 

I have the feeling that Gus got somehow offended by your comments, like you had a wrong idea about his country based on those TV shows. It is almost like you would feel if somebody´s idea of your country was THAT preacher...or a Wayne Newton show.

 

Regards,

 

JoseC.

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Chip:

 

Sorry if we got out of your original questions.

 

I just think it is unfair to qualify an entire community (or countries, or culture) because of what you see on UNIVISION. Univision is a well accepted TV company in the Latin market. However it does not represent at all the entire latin community in and outside the US.

 

You talked about "perhaps" just a couple of studios...

Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

...Are there perhaps just a couple of studios that does a lot of production for most of the music? Just curious....

 

Perhaps I was wrong and you were only talking about that there are only a few studios working for them, not that there are only a few latin musicians working in the US or all of them sound the same. Sorry.

 

This other one seemed harder to swallow:

Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

How big in reality, are these sort of assembly-line pop groups they always have lip-syncing on Sabado Gigante at those huge outdoor shows? Is that kind of thing the mainstream in Mexico, or whereever? Or is it just an excuse to see a big show with dancers?

 

I just hate SABADO GIGANTE. My fault. But it is absolutely NOT the mainstream in Mexico.

 

 

Chip, I have to accept I was wrong. I misunderstood your comment since you did not point this at the very beggining:

Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

IN FACT, an inciteful person would detect that I'm probing at the notion that Univision IS obviously a manufactured construct, just as the reality on television in the U.S. is. ... I made very specific remarks regarding what I have seen on Univision, which I presume is a manipulated depiction of reality. Thus the question.

 

Oh yeah... I mentioned the "start visiting new restaurants" and the other comments in order to try to change your mind towards "latin" music and culture. There are a lot of different styles in "Latin" (I do preffer to say "Music in Spanish made by Spanish Speaking persons) music you should know besides of what you do know currently. Sorry again ...

 

Peace ! Keep posting...

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

Instagram: guslozada

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www.guslozada.com

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Originally posted by jcobelas@navegalia.com:

I have the feeling that Gus got somehow offended by your comments, like you had a wrong idea about his country based on those TV shows. It is almost like you would feel if somebody´s idea of your country was THAT preacher...or a Wayne Newton show.

 

Or even worse... by Tom Greene Show !! http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif (Oh yeah, He is a Canadian... ok, by MTV's JACKASS Show )

 

Oye Jose, escuchas CADENA 100 ? Has escuchado a Luz, la locutora? Cuéntame si lo has hecho...

 

GusTraX

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

Instagram: guslozada

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Originally posted by Chip McDonald:

Ok, your turn: WHERE WAS A GENERALIZATION MADE?

 

It wasn't. I said :

 

WOULD BE

 

not were, not was. I'm not from this country but I do know something about grammar. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/smile.gif Yes, the generalization was not made, and I did NOT imply that either. Actually, I was replying more to Gus' comments than to yours.

 

I believe you made generalizations about mexican music, and having heard similar things about my country, I introduced a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point.

 

Rod

Korg Kronos X73 / ARP Odyssey / Motif ES Rack / Roland D-05 / JP-08 / SE-05 / Jupiter Xm / Novation Mininova / NL2X / Waldorf Pulse II

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Originally posted by jcobelas@navegalia.com:

I have the feeling that Gus got somehow offended by your comments, like you had a wrong idea about his country based on those TV shows. It is almost like you would feel if somebody´s idea of your country was THAT preacher...or a Wayne Newton show.

 

I wasn't saying, and didn't say that was what I felt about his country. If anything, it was a chance to elaborate on those specific things, as you did succinctly (thanks).

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

I just think it is unfair to qualify an entire community (or countries, or culture) because of what you see on UNIVISION.

 

WHERE DID I "QUALIFY" AN ENTIRE COMMUNITY AND COUNTRIES???? You just think it's unfair?

 

I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO BE MIS-CATEGORIZED IN THIS MANNER.

 

Univision is a well accepted TV company in the Latin market. However it does not represent at all the entire latin community in and outside the US.

 

That is assumed. If you would read my post and THINK about it, you'll see I'm trying to judge just how far off it is. Think about it, Gus: if what I saw on Univision was what I thought reality was in Mexico or where ever, would I be asking questions about how relevant it actually is?

 

You talked about "perhaps" just a couple of studios...

 

Right... and what's wrong with me saying that? The music I've heard in said situation has basically identical guitar sounds, identical production, same drum machine sounds - why is that so out of line?

 

Muzak in the U.S. is done exactly that way. Why can't what I've heard be the equivalent? Maybe it's not, I don't know - THAT'S WHY I'M ASKING.

 

Oh yeah... I mentioned the "start visiting new restaurants" and the other comments in order to try to change your mind towards "latin" music and culture.

 

Change my mind? Why don't you explain to me the way my mind is, since you seem to know all about it?

 

There are a lot of different styles in "Latin" (I do preffer to say "Music in Spanish made by Spanish Speaking persons) music you should know besides of what you do know currently.

 

For someone so worried about how someone perceives your heritage, you should consider the person you're addressing has more awareness than you're considering. Again, think about what I've posted. Your reading comprehension would be moderately low to nil if you think you can ascertain my viewpoints relative to latin music, based on that post. It said nothing about my point of view towards anything specifically latin.

 

AGAIN - CITE WHERE I MADE THE NON-PC REMARKS YOU ARE ATTRIBUTING TO ME.

 

YOU have ASSUMED *you* know what I'm about, and you know what that makes....

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by Rod CA:

I believe you made generalizations about mexican music, and having heard similar things about my country, I introduced a hypothetical situation to illustrate my point.

 

 

Note the topic of this thread:

 

"UNIVISION and Music Overheard at Restaurants"

 

That is NOT a generalization, it is obviously specific to those two subjects in particular. If someone wants to argue with me about mis-characterizing what I posted relative to those two subjects, fine. That's not what's happening; I am being personally attacked as if I have made some derogatory remark concerning "cultures and entire countries". I made generalizations - where?

 

------------------

New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Peace !

 

At the very moment you asked if that was the mainstream in Mexico (lip-syncing and assembly-line pop groups... and even worse, SABADO GIGANTE, actually not a mexican but Chilean TV show) you added fuel to the fire.

 

That is what I actually took as you referencing an entire culture (while mentioning Mexico and Sabado Gigante and Univision together) because of the TV shows you watch.

 

I got your real -if you let me think it this way since I don't know exactly what is in your mind, right- point and I am very sorry if I took this in a different manner than intended.

 

Best regards, Chip...

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

Instagram: guslozada

Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología

 

www.guslozada.com

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

Chip:

 

There are a lot of different styles in "Latin" (I do preffer to say "Music in Spanish made by Spanish Speaking persons) music you should know besides of what you do know currently. Sorry again ...

 

Peace ! Keep posting...

 

OK, now that everybody has cooled down, I find interesting this remark, because I really do not understand well this "Latin" tag either. Over the last months I´ve even seen Placido Domingo included several times (one in this very same forum). IMHO, if Placido Domingo qualifies, why not Luciano Pavarotti? Latin, after all, was the language originally used in the Lazio region in Italy.

 

It seems that "Latin America" was originally coined to name those Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in America, since those languages have Latin roots. But then, French does, too. Should Zydeco be considered Latin music? Does that exclude music made in the Iberian peninsula?. What about the fine music currently made in Portuguese in Western Africa?

 

A Cuban American producer said in a recent issue of a magazine (EQ or Mix, I don´t remember now) that the current trend is to consider "Latin" any artist with a Spanish name. Does that include Jerry García? Is Jack Joseph Puig a famous Latin producer?

 

A puzzled,

 

JoseC.

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

Oye Jose, escuchas CADENA 100 ? Has escuchado a Luz, la locutora? Cuéntame si lo has hecho...

 

GusTraX

 

No, lo siento. Tengo una inexplicable aversión a la radio desde hace años. Cadena 100 es de lo mejor que hay por aquí, por lo que me cuentan.

 

JoseC.

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Originally posted by jcobelas@navegalia.com:

It seems that "Latin America" was originally coined to name those Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in America, since those languages have Latin roots. But then, French does, too. Should Zydeco be considered Latin music? Does that exclude music made in the Iberian peninsula?. What about the fine music currently made in Portuguese in Western Africa?

 

A Cuban American producer said in a recent issue of a magazine (EQ or Mix, I don´t remember now) that the current trend is to consider "Latin" any artist with a Spanish name.

 

JoseC.

 

Hola José !

Precisamente por una discusión como ésta preferimos evitar ponerle a éste foro un nombre como "El Foro Latino" ... te imaginas? Pensarían que soy empleado de Emilio Estefan, cosa que me encantaría pero no es así... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/wink.gif

 

En los últimos años la palabra "Latino" (en mi humilde apreciación) se ha referido a la comunidad Hispano-parlante de los Estados Unidos y como bien dices, a toda persona con nombre en Español.

 

Definitivamente "Latino" indica que proviene del Latín, la madre de todas las lenguas latinas -valga la redundancia- y no sólo del español. Así que efectivamente, por sus raíces, Francia, Portugal, Italia -sobre todo- y varias zonas europeas y africanas -después de las colonizaciones- tienen raíces latinas. Obvio, toda américa central, del sur, caribe, México y la enorme comunidad hispano parlante de los Estados Unidos.

 

Éste foro fue creado para hablar en Español, por sobre todas las cosas, por la facilidad que pueda otorgar MusicPlayer.com a sus miembros hispanoparlantes de todo el mundo para resolver sus dudas en su propio idioma. Ésto incluye todos los géneros musicales, independiente del idioma en que estén las letras.

 

Así mismo, no excluye poder tener una buena discusión en otro idioma, como lo hemos hecho aquí con Chip...

 

Paz hermanos ! (no hermanos latinos, sino hermanos músicos http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif )

"El Pueblo Unido jamás será vencido"...

 

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Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

At the very moment you asked if that was the mainstream in Mexico

 

So *asking* is the same as asserting it is? Interesting.

 

Also, again note the concept that by asking that presents you with the opportunity to REFUTE the point. There is a concept called a "leading question"; ask around , someone will explain it to you.

 

(lip-syncing and assembly-line pop groups... and even worse, SABADO GIGANTE, actually not a mexican but Chilean TV show) you added fuel to the fire.

 

By asking about the nature of a television show? How does that cast aspersions to an entire "culture and countries"??? Interesting...

 

That is what I actually took as you referencing an entire culture (while mentioning Mexico and Sabado Gigante and Univision together) because of the TV shows you watch.

 

A) You don't know what the TV shows are that I watch.

B) Asking a specific question relative to a TV show does not constitute a remark about an "entire culture and countries".

C) Not knowing the geographical origin of a show - combined with an intentionally leading question provides an opportunity for clarification, not a personal attack based on assumed perception.

 

I don't take Univision and Sabado Gigante as representing anything other than a weird television reality. It's curious you do.

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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So Chip, you will not accept my apologies...

 

Sorry to see you considered this a personal attack. It has never been. Sorry if I got you confused.

 

I was just making some suggestions to you so you could discover by yourself the answers to your questions.

 

Just to respond your leading question, the answer is NO. That is NOT the mainstream in Mexico. Perhaps only in some stupid TV shows with their own standards...

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

Instagram: guslozada

Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología

 

www.guslozada.com

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PEACE EVERYONE !

There is something in which all of us agree , SABADO GIGANTES SUCK'S!

Every time I go to LONG HORN for a steak all I hear is Country music , I wonder why ? Maybe it's because it"s a THEME REST.!

P.D. The Country music they play is the one that also suck's. Not the good one. Use your good judgment.

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

So Chip, you will not accept my apologies...

 

Saying "you added fuel to the fire" doesn't exactly sound conciliatory to me, but "oh well".

 

I'm not concerned with apologies; I'm concerned with allaying a wrong. I'm relentless in that respect, sorry.

 

Sorry to see you considered this a personal attack. It has never been. Sorry

if I got you confused.

 

Let's see... Being preached to about culture, where I eat, what I watch on television, saying that I have made derogatory generalizations about entire countries - now why would I *not* associate that with a personal attack, since it obviously is one?

 

You finished the prior post with the remark:

 

"There are a lot of different styles in "Latin" music you should know besides of what you do know currently "

 

- which is interesting, since I don't how you would know WHAT I currently know about latin music. What if I just said to you "oh, well, there are a lot of different styles of U.S. music you should know of than what you know currently"? How do I know what you know???? Would that not be an offensive thing to say to you?

 

Just to respond your leading question, the answer is NO. That is NOT the mainstream in Mexico. Perhaps only in some stupid TV shows with their own standards...

 

I assumed it isn't. At which point I would ask "so what is currently the mainstream in Mexico (is there a "mainstream", because I don't think one can claim such a thing in the U.S. anymore), and what is thought of such shows"? See how that works?

 

Venturing to Mexico won't tell me what I'm curious about, which is the nature of transformation of the pop culture there: whether it is driven from a corporate standpoint, whether it has evolved ala America by the evil of rock music, whether it's losing it's cultural identity, a number of sociological-history things. I like to suck the Net dry of all the use I can get from it, and I have a voracious intellectual curiousity. Asking questions of people who should be experts is the best way of satisfying that curiousity. Sorry.

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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As a fellow forum member, I have thought the following...

 

Not to be one who tells other people what to do, but to offer a suggestion, I ask: isn't it easier for both of you to just start over in another thread, and steer clear of whatever misunderstandings you have gotten into? Some expressions Gus or Chip use can be misunderstood because of cultural differences, which this forum will be full of, including this post. Sometimes buttons get pushed when they really weren't intended to, and whenever one person reacts very emotionally, the other person will defend himself, and so it goes on.

 

Chip felt personally attacked by Gustrax, and Gustrax never intended it to be that way, which he apologized for. If he already accepted his fault, why go back to those statements that in the first place weren't meant the way they are perceived?

 

So instead of nitpicking at what was said wrong, and defending every sentence said previously (which I have never seen done succesfully and to full satisfaction of either party involved in whatever discussion about whatever topic), it might be a good idea - to me at least - to try to settle this as quickly as possible...

 

...if anything, to get along. No one has to let a first impression spoil what one thinks of the other person. Sometimes that first impression doesn't reflect what the other person really is.

 

This was just a suggestion. Do what you want with it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Juergen

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Now about Sabado Gigante...

 

it sucks. I always have a good laugh when I see people lip-sync, especially Cumbia bands with their long haired vocalist icon. It's just funny. Is it called Cumbia, the chinggg-chicka-chingching, chinggg-chicka-chingching style? Or Cachaca?

 

Anyhow...about the scantly clothed girlygirls that show up as "decor" in TV shows: I have wondered about that myself. Here in Paraguay it is absolutely commonplace, which makes it seem necessary to companies, to pay girls to dress in clothes that leave nothing to the imagination, when handing out little coupons for Shell, for example. Or when handing out awards at whatever big event they hand awards out for. Or when there's a race, and the girls dress in Pepsi/Marlboro/etc clothes, and stand next to the champion.

 

Or, and this was hilarious and unbelievable at the same time, when Phillip Kotler, one of the planet's marketing gurus, was giving his one-day seminar here in Asuncion. The event was hosted by one of the better Universities here, the Universidad Americana, at one of the most elegant hotels in town. When you walked into the Auditorium, there were these girls standing there, in very very short dresses and clothes that stuck to their bodies like only skin can, handing out headphones for real-time translation. The funniest part was when these girls walked all the way to the stage and just kind of stood there, I don't know why, when they introduced Phillip Kotler.

 

It seems like they get paid to just stand there.

 

To be looked at or something.

 

It is kind of sad.

 

"I'll hire you because the people that come (or at least males...and lesbians, I guess) like to think about sex, and we want to grant them that wish that they can think about sex as soon as they look at you. Here are the clothes you'll be wearing."

 

Or is there another explanation? Or do they not even think about why they hire them, and just do it, because it is a cultural norm?

 

Don't get me wrong. I like to look at girls. But isn't this kind of degrading to them as people?

 

Just askin'...

 

Juergen

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Originally posted by artnoiser:

This was just a suggestion. Do what you want with it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Juergen

 

You're none to come to tell me what to do, mutha fucka !!!

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

A eso me referia yo, hermano. Lamento haber fallado con un huesped tan honorario como Chip; sin embargo el llegar a una fiesta a hacer comentarios del tipo "no es por intrigar, pero estos bocadillos al parecer saben rancios y me dijeron que la esposa del dueño de la casa es muy fogosa"... ya vieron el resultado.

 

Por mi parte ya ofreci mis disculpas. Efectivamente, entre hispanoparlantes podemos decirnos muchas cosas sin necesariamente pensar en un ataque personal... con los americanos es mas delicado.

 

Lo siento, de verdad. Pero para eso son los foros, para volcar el contenido de tu corazon y conocer otras culturas.

 

Paz !!

 

Ah si, sobre las chicas con poca ropa...

 

Yo sere todo lo hombre que quieran y es obvio que me encanta ver mujeres con poca ropa; sin embargo, la educacion me ha enseñado que hay lugares para todo. Efectivamente, es una sorpresa agradable ver una chica con poca ropa o enseñando lo que nadie alrededor enseña, pero muchas veces esto cae en lo vulgar o peor aun, en dar el mensaje de que el TVespectador es una persona sin cultura, a quien con sexo barato lo entretienes y vendes lo que desees. Funciona, cierto, pero es precisamente esto ultimo lo que me molesta...

 

Me he esforzado en entender no lo que pasa por la cabeza de los productores que contratan a las chicas como decoracion, porque eso se entiende: Al Pueblo dale lo que pida. Pero no entiendo en realidad que pase por la cabeza de ellas... en fin ...

 

Es un circulo vicioso. Dan eso en TV porque la gente lo ve. Pero la gente ve esas cosas porque estan en TV...

 

Tampoco quiero tocar muchas fibras aqui, porque podriamos herir a alguien.

Como dicen por ahi: "Si no te gusta, cambia de canal o apaga la TV"... y es lo que yo hago... a veces http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif ...

 

 

------------------

Gustavo G Lozada

 

Moderador de:

MusicPlayer.com/NuestroForo

"La voz en Español en Música y Tecnología"

 

GusTraX @yahoo.com

Músico, Productor, Ingeniero, Tecnólogo

Director de Ventas, América Latina y Caribe - PreSonus Audio Electronics

 

Instagram: guslozada

Facebook: Lozada - Música y Tecnología

 

www.guslozada.com

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

Por mi parte ya ofreci mis disculpas. Efectivamente, entre hispanoparlantes podemos decirnos muchas cosas sin necesariamente pensar en un ataque personal... con los americanos es mas delicado.

 

Una persona delicada pudo pensar que la observación algo arrogante, pero hablando para me él podría ser una declaración justa de cualquier cultura. Aprecio el respecto que usted da. Pero encuentro esa declaración para ser irónico. Tengo que defender mi posición concerniente a este tema debido a el hecho simple de que mi vida es *muy* integrada en una manera cultural.

 

I have a room mate from Puerto Rico. Two good friends of mine are from Honduras. Another friend is Japanese, a sushi chef for Sony... one of my oldest friends of my family is a Japanese woman I've known since I was born. Another Japanese friend just opened a new restaurant in town. Grew up playing with kids of African descent. There are plenty others - my present life is very comfortably integrated, and I don't even think about it. Which is the way it should be in my opinion.

 

That is why it bothers me greatly to have it thrust in my face. I have no quarell with you, Gus.

 

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New and Improved Music Soon: http://www.mp3.com/chipmcdonald

Guitar Lessons in Augusta Georgia: www.chipmcdonald.com

Eccentric blog: https://chipmcdonaldblog.blogspot.com/

 

/ "big ass windbag" - Bruce Swedien

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Originally posted by GusTraX:

You're none to come to tell me what to do, mutha fucka !!!

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Who you callin' muthafucka, bitch! He he. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Es como dicen, nunca te metas con un moderador de foros. Lastimosamente me di cuenta muy tarde, mucho después de escribir lo que escribí. Y pensé "Gus es el moderador, por qué me meto en esto?"

 

Gracias a Dios sólo era una sugerencia, y como esto es un foro público... http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/cool.gif

 

Chip, por todos los posts que leí que eran tuyos, hace por lo menos medio año, también a tí te tengo respeto. Espero no haberte ofendido con mi post.

 

Saludos,

 

Juergen

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Originally posted by artnoiser:

Do what you want with it. http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

Juergen

 

Originally posted by GusTraX:

You're none to come to tell me what to do, mutha fucka !!!

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gifhttp://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

 

HAHAHAHA!!!!

 

Ahora SÍ lo entiendo.

 

Juergen

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