Tedster Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 I have a tama kit with the mahogany shells. I've been told by many people to use the pinstripe heads on them, but I still get a little more overtone than I would like. I've also tried tuning the resonant heads just over finger tight. It's still not enough. I don't want to rid myself completely of all overtones, just dampen them a little bit more. Any other suggestions (aside from plastic zero ringers?) "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted August 17, 2004 Share Posted August 17, 2004 Hey Ted, Moon Gels are popular, as are the Evans Mini Emads. You can also try things like doubling up some gaff tape and then sticking it to the rim - it bounces off the head when you play it and then settles down and gives some muffling. Maybe some cotton balls inside the drum to dampen the bottom head. What have you tried and what did/didn't you like? -- Rob I have the mind of a criminal genius.....I keep it in the freezer next to mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Tedster posting quick here...just so ya know...that was my son the drummer posting on my account last time...thanks Rob! "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedster Posted August 18, 2004 Author Share Posted August 18, 2004 Drew here, The only thing I've tried is just dropping the tuning of the resonant head. I tried the pinstripe heads. I talked to one guy about the plastic rings and he said I should never have to use those. He suggested using a 2-ply head. I want to try it, however my band is going to be recording a demo in the studio this weekend and I don't want to blow that kind of money on a set of heads that don't work with my kit. I might try just recording my drums on a 4 track cuz what I hear may be different than what's actually there or I may be over-reacting. In the mean time I might try the gels. -Drew "Cisco Kid, was a friend of mine" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Tedster: Tedster posting quick here...just so ya know...that was my son the drummer posting on my account last time...thanks Rob!The secret to Tedster's post count! -- Rob I have the mind of a criminal genius.....I keep it in the freezer next to mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Definitely don't put new heads on just prior to recording. Heads stretch with time, and no more so than when new, You could find a drum that was tuned well sounds not-so-good two hours later. Originally posted by Tedster: Drew here, I want to try it, however my band is going to be recording a demo in the studio this weekend and I don't want to blow that kind of money on a set of heads that don't work with my kit. -DrewAfter recording you may want to try the pinstripe heads. BTW, detuning the resonant heads often produces MORE and worse overtones than having them tuned properly to the drum. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Hey Drew, So much of this is subjective. You say that you have "more overtone than I would like", is this sustain (where the pitch of the drum continues for a couple of seconds) or is it that weird shit that goes "sproiiiioooiiinngg" when you hit the drum? One is a tuning ptoblem, the other isn't Originally posted by Drewster: Drew here, The only thing I've tried is just dropping the tuning of the resonant head.That will give you a shorter tone and a more pronounced pitch bend. Originally posted by Drewster: I tried the pinstripe heads. I talked to one guy about the plastic rings and he said I should never have to use those. He suggested using a 2-ply head.Two points here: 1) Anyone who speaks in absolutes when it comes to drum tuning is an idiot. Run away from this person. You may use a zero ring if you wish - if it gives you the sound you want then it is exactly what you need to do. You can make a zero ring by cutting an old head - you don't have to buy them (buying them is easy and gives you quick options though). 2) Pinstripes are two ply heads. They are glued together at the edge (between the stripe and the rim) to give you a bit more muffling. An emperor or G2 will actually give you more sustain because their plies aren't glued together. Originally posted by Drewster: I want to try it, however my band is going to be recording a demo in the studio this weekend and I don't want to blow that kind of money on a set of heads that don't work with my kit.Regardless of what heads you use, make sure they're new and in good condition. Recording really allows you to concentrate on all the little things that you don't pay attention to live. How old are the bottom heads? They are very important to the sound of your drums. If they're old and beat up then you're handicapping yourself. Originally posted by Drewster: I might try just recording my drums on a 4 track cuz what I hear may be different than what's actually there or I may be over-reacting. That is the perfect idea! It is so much easier to hear what your drums sound like when you're not busy playing them. Microphones don't hear things the same way we do so it's a good idea to play around with them. Remember, mic placement makes a huge difference in what the mic "hears" - if the drum has too much sustain try moving the mic an inch or so up away from the head, you may be surprised. Parting thoughts - get your drums sounding as good as you can without muffling. Every room sounds different and the right amount of muffling in your practice room might sound completely dead in the studio. Start with a good sounding drum and then adjust as necessary in the studio. If the engineer is any good then he should be able to give you some tips. Good luck, and remember, have fun. -- Rob I have the mind of a criminal genius.....I keep it in the freezer next to mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwarf Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Originally posted by Drewster: I might try just recording my drums on a 4 track cuz what I hear may be different than what's actually there or I may be over-reacting. I have something to add. Depending on the quality of your mics and the quality of your four track, you may have a hard time getting a big studio sound. If you're working with smaller, cheaper gear, don't worry about getting your favourite drummer's sound on your four track - concentrate on getting your drums to sound good. It will sound different in a studio so there's no need to beat yourself up needlessly. -- Rob I have the mind of a criminal genius.....I keep it in the freezer next to mother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Flier Posted August 18, 2004 Share Posted August 18, 2004 Drew, Tons of great advice here. Definitely it would be good for you to hear what the kit sounds like when you're not playing it. But when you say you have more overtone than you would like - what kind of drum sound are you hearing in your head (can you name recordings, etc.) and what about the overtones don't you like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof.Sound Posted August 22, 2004 Share Posted August 22, 2004 I have a thought and a comment. The term "overtone" is used very loosly. There are several elements of the sound that could be an overtone. So is it the high-pitched ring, the length of the note, a low end hum, lingering resonance.....what part are you having a problems with? A large portion of the sound is not only attributable to the batter head. Changing the tuning and maybe focusing more on the resonant side may cure the issue more so than another head? The PS is a reasonably muted tone. It's construction offers several advantages over other two ply heads. Whether it really means much to you or not is dependant upon your wear pattern? My experience suggests that you will not hear a major "overtone" difference between any of the 2 ply heads when tuned up in pitch, they can all still ring in the high frequencies if the resonant head is not tuned corectly in relation to the batter. No doubt, the 2-plys can have a different fundemental sound, but they can all still have an element of overtone to them. So try to be as explicit as possible about the component of the sound you do not like for maximum help. Author and new site of the As of August 2004 - New Home of the Drum Tuning Bible v3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Definitely concern yourself with what makes it to tape, if it's about recording. If it's about live, concern yourself with what it sounds like to the audience. Makes no sense at all to tweak things just so from the drummer's perspective when nobody else hears it from that perspective. All kinds of little stuff that seems like a big deal fromt the throne just doesn't matter from other perspectives, human or microphone. A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cedub Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Hey everyone, I'm not a regular here but was just checking out this forum and thought I'd add a little advice. tuning is one of those things that takes a lot of practice and patience. Here's what I do. First, I'm a bog fan of the coated Amabasador. To me it's the best head that really brings out the sound of my drums. They are especially good for recording. They don't stand up that will over time though. Studio drummers regularly change them daily. On the bottom I use clear Ambasadors. When I put new top heads on I always check the bottoms. Once tuned they rarely drift because they don't get hit. Tune the head so that the tone is nice an even. There is a natural tone that your shell what's to be at and you need to find it. In general I try not to tighten the bottom head to much. When you're happy with the tone of the bottom head, put the top head on and tighten it way up. Then put the drum on the floor and step on it. Give it a bit of a bounce. This stretches out the head pretty well and makes it so you can immediately use or record with it. Then losen it up until it's not quite flappy but evenly tensioned. Then do the usualy slow tightening where you tighten opposit lugs with half turns. Tap the head as you go until you start to get a proper tone and continue until the drum tone is nice and clear. Tap around the lugs and fine tune so that every lug is more or less the same pitch. Thats about it. I've been doing it this way for about 20 years. All drums have overtones. The question is, are they pleasing or not. My goal is alway to bring out the natural tone of the shell. Obviously there are a million ways to approach this. To dampen the drums a bit when it's needed, I take a small piece of cloth about 6"x6" and tape it to the top of the rim and let the cloth drape over the head. This way there's no tape on the head and when you hit the drum the cloth bounces and then settles on the head to dampen it. I learned this trick from a guy who was in on some of the beatles sessions. hope this helps. - chris walcott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted September 2, 2004 Share Posted September 2, 2004 P. sound brought up the most important point, quote "The term "overtone" is used very loosly." Indeed. "overtone" is, strictly speaking, resonance and formant harmonics. that is ALWAYS desireable, as without this you might as well be playing e-drums. What you are likely talking about is after-ring. It's very important to differentiate between these. As far as killing some after ring (typically needed when recording snare, less so with toms) I agree with the moon gel suggestion above. there's just something right about the way it sounds. IMO, it's better to use a lighter head and add as much damping as needed, then to use a double head and be stuck with too much deadening. Using thicker, or double heads, will in fact change the overtones (resonance) itself, typically giving less HF to the initial "crack," and possibly fatter mids, so be sure that's what you want if you start swapping heads. -------- Hey Drawf, great post! I especially agree with: "get your drums sounding as good as you can without muffling." (first) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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