New and Improved Roland V-Drums Announced

[Saint Johnny B]

Ok, it's offical. New pads, brain, etc. Enjoy.

 

http://namm.harmony-central.com/WNAMM04/Content/Roland/PR/TD-20S-BK.html

[6 stringer]

Thanks Johnny. Those look sweet, looks like you did a great job. But how do they compare to Yammy's new drums?

[Saint Johnny B]

I'd say they compete nicely with Yamaha's new kit in terms of price and performance. And I never said I worked for Roland. I don't. Nor Mackie, Apple, MS, or any of the other companies I've been accused of working for.

 

Lemme say it again: I'm just a simple guy from a smalltown, smalltown USA.

[Super 8]

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT! I did not need to see this!

 

Looks like the even fixed those crappy plastic clamps! No user samples though. But it's got room for whatever $500 expansion board they come out with. So maybe it's in the works.

 

I can't afford this shit! Why am I looking at it!?!?!?

 

Okay, here's the deal... There has to be a touring band around here looking from a drummer. Hire me so I can justify buying one of these things.

[zele]

Any updates on the FAT KAT??? http://www.keyboardmuseum.org/pic/k/kat/trapkat.jpg Still need to have a fairly quiet pad system for tracking--tried playing others>> Roland ,Pintech, etc ....way too much bleed for recording with accoustic instruments , at 8 to 10 feet. the Fat Trap has the quietest surface....and of course no rims/mesh to hear over the tracking sessions http://www.redshift.com/~cjogo/ebay/drum_pad.jpg

[Allan Speers]

I'd say the new Roland V-Pro is a big let-down.

 

Except for the cool hats, the cymbals are exactly the same.

 

the mesh heads are the same, so the same bounce (good or bad, depending on your opinion of the Hart Pros)

 

The triggering has evidently been improved, but by how much (and is it REALLY better?) They still use only two pickups, so...

 

The biggest dissapointment is the TD-20. They finally incorporated a digital output, but what did they give us? SPDF ! -That's one stereo output that can only be run about five feet. Have they lost their minds? We couldn't get lightpipe?

 

No integrated editing software.

 

Same low-output analog outs (pre-amps required for recording)

 

Still only midi communication, no M-lan, usb, fireewire, or other high-speed alternative.

 

No user sounds (I was told there would be, so MAYBE in the future)

 

Still only 50 kits total, so it probably still uses the insane "edits always active" system. arrrggghhh.

 

No word yet on latency, but don't get your hopes up.

 

The stand is indeed much improved, but it is NOT included with the kit! They are selling it seperately (only.) -So this is good, but it doesn't count re this discussion.

 

In short, this is a very minor update after what, five years? Maybe we'll see something serious in 2009.

[Allan Speers]

Does anyone have an url for the new Yamaha kit info?

[bleen]

Originally posted by Allan Speers:

Does anyone have an url for the new Yamaha kit info?

Yamaha have't updated their site yet, but here's the blurb about it on Harmony Central

[Super 8]

Originally posted by zele:

Still need to have a fairly quiet pad system for tracking--tried playing others>> Roland ,Pintech, etc ....way too much bleed for recording with accoustic instruments , at 8 to 10 feet.

If you want quiet, you want a Zendrum ....either the original Zendrum or the new Laptop model.

[Saint Johnny B]

You know that Roland is changing some policies and will be opening up some of the systems to work with 3rd party developers like uh hmm...George Massenburg. But you did not hear that here.

[Saint Johnny B]

I'll be curious to read any shoot-out articles between the new Roland and the Yammy.

[Allan Speers]

I folloed Bleen's link, but only see info on Yamaha's DTXPRESS III. Is that their top-end model? If so, there's no point in looking any further. The DTXPRESS III is a toy.

 

the Roland V-Pro is certainly an improvement over the V-Session, but not by much. It seems like none of the big manufacturers are concerned with making serious, high-end gear. What else is new?

 

Maybe Ddrum will come-up with a high-end, direct-analog triggering system this year.

[Saint Johnny B]

Allan, sometimes in a product's life cycle the improvements are made on a incremental basis, this is so even though the design team would rather have more goodies now. The suits and bean counters sometimes are the biggest impediments to innovation and immediate gratification.

 

Why not go an give the Roland's, the Yammy's and whatever else you can think of Ddrums a bang, and come back and tell us which ones you like the best.

 

Perhaps, you could even make suggestions for improvements. Believe it or not, many of the decisionmakers often go to the forums to see what the users desire.

[bleen]

Originally posted by Allan Speers:

I folloed Bleen's link, but only see info on Yamaha's DTXPRESS III. Is that their top-end model? If so, there's no point in looking any further. The DTXPRESS III is a toy.

Huh? I just clicked my own link (ewwwwww?!? ) and it took me to the Harmony Central report on the DTXREME IIS. That's the new top-o'-the-line kit with sampling and new pads. $2999 list.

 

Try it again Allan.

 

BTW, here\'s the offical Yamaha press release - same thing as the HC report, but with some additional Yammy personnel quotes.

[Allan Speers]

Bleen,

 

I saw the correct kit. I still think it's a toy, relative to even the old Roland V-session. Hard rubber pads (though worth checking out, I guess), simplistic cymbals (no mention of positional cross-fading, or a three-zone ride) ...

 

Maybe it's a good value for $3,000, but it isn't competiton for the Roland-Pro kit.

 

Nice that it samples, though. It may even be that the rubber pads use FSR technology, which would give faster trigger-response than Roland / Hart, etc. Does anyone know? regardless, any type of rubber pad is going to be acoustically noisier than the Roland mesh-head, which pretty much rules it out for me: I need to record with real cymbals, so the sound in the overhead mics is a problem. even the Hart Pro's fail in this regard. Only roland and Pintech are quiet enough for my needs.

 

-But Roland is nuts making the list price $6500. Dealers are showing a street at around $5500, and that's WITHOUT the stand!

[Jazzman]

............Gulp!!! 7G's Holyschmoly!

 

I would like to get one of these for the studio...someday.

 

I really didn't need to see this now.

 

Jazzman

[bigswole31]

The new V-pro WILL ship with the new rack INCLUDED. The confusion came from a miswording on the website. The wording was intended to let customers know that the rack would also be available separately. This came straight from Steve Fischer, Roland's Percussion Head Honcho.

 

I am confused about any complaints about **only** 50 kits. Since Roland has dropped the cartoony, gimmicky sounds in favor of more accurate acoustic emulations, this means that it will be 50 quality kits. If one had a well miked set of DWs or Sonors they would only have ONE drum kit sound in their arsenal, for close to the same amount of money if not much more (drum, cymbals, hardware, mics, cabling, mixer/preamps, room treatment, etc).

 

I also didn't get the statement about the "low-power outputs". The TD-20 is using the same DACs and outputs as Roland's keyboard products (FantomX, V-Synth, etc). These and 99% of all electronic instruments (Triton, Motif, etc) put out an unbalanced line level signal of -10dBu which is perfectly acceptable for most mixers, soundcards and recorders with NO ADDITIONAL AMPLIFICATION NEEDED. The V-pro will require no more to record or interface with a mixer/recorder than any other synth or sampler on the market. Was someone actually expecting balanced +4dBu? Sheesh...at least the outputs put out a line level signal. Think of how many preamp channels are NECESSARY to even hear the slightest pip from miking a real set.

 

Also, the word is that the expansion card will allow for the use of external samples, presumably with the new Compact Flash ram card slot on the unit.

 

I won't comment on the the whole springy head thing. It is what it is and each player will have to pick their poison. FWIW, I have seen many creative solutions to recording mesh kits with real cymbals and overheads.

 

The quoted street price is ~$5400 It's an individual's call to decide if the feature set is worth it to them.

[Allan Speers]

BigSwole,

 

Thanks for the clarification on the rack thing. Yes, it was a badly-worded website, even my friend the east coast Roland rep thought that the rack was not included.

 

QUOTE:

"I am confused about any complaints about **only** 50 kits."

 

-That's because, you can ONLY save kits, not individual instruments. This is an ABSURD way to do things. You cannot, for instance, save 20 custom snares, with various shells, tnings, etc. You have to use up a kit to save the snare itself. Therefore, it's actually only 50 sets of instruments. total. for studio use, by today's standards, that's ridiculous.

 

Granted, one can use a software librarian, but

that won't be easy from the drumkit, unless your DAW is on a laptop.

 

This mistake, combined with the lack of lightpipe output, shows that Roland still has put no thought toward the professional recording environment. This is a shame, because technology has just about advanced to where e-drums could be a viable option for pro use.

 

I also didn't get the statement about the "low-power outputs". The TD-20 is using the same DACs and outputs as Roland's keyboard products (FantomX, V-Synth, etc). These and 99% of all electronic instruments (Triton, Motif, etc) put out an unbalanced line level signal of -10dBu"

 

first off, -10 is not really hot enough for pro recording. close, but not quite. -And if you use various analog-emulation plugins on your drumtracks, as most good engineers do, a -10 signal will not even come close to hitting the proper saturation point.

 

Also, the V-session kit did NOT put out -10, even with all parameters tweaked. I should know, as I had a set and maxed everything out.

 

Addtionally, the outputs are unbalanced, so you can forget about running them from the main room to the control room. Same goes for the SPDF output: That's good for about 5 feet.

 

So, what's the answer? You would have to purchase a ten-channel direct box plus ten mic pre-amps, or a ten-channel booster amp with +4 balanced outs.

 

Did I expect +4, balanced outs? No, that would cost a fortune. I expected lightpipe outputs, which are dirt cheap to implement. How can any manufacturer not include lightpipe or AES on a new product?

 

If the V-Pro brain had lightpipe outputs, I would be planning on buying the full kit. As it stands, I have scrapped those plans, as the $2,000 brain simply won't give me what I need.

 

Gotta' love the new hats, but they will only work with the TD20, and I ca get by just fine with real hats.

[6 stringer]

Will more improvements be on the way?