ed hamilton Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Hello to all in the drum room. I am buying a kit for my studio. eons spent recording kits has made me a yamaha fan so i am looking at the birch absolute kits. I am confused about the differing hardware for these kits though. Apparently there are kits that use YESS hardware and some older absolute kits that do not have the YESS hardware. Pro Tools, Audio, Midi, Guitar shit.- this I know. Drums........... PLEASE HELP. Your replies will be much appreciated. My questions are: Is the YESS hardware a big improvement? Are the mounts on the drums the same in each generation and JUST the hardware changed or did the MOUNTS on the drums change too? (pre-YESS vs YESS series)??? Learning drum hardware lingo and configurations is as deep as audio/midi stuff!! I have spent many hours participating in the nichols(sob) massenberg forums. Please forgive my first appearence in the drum forum for being a question. Thanks much for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bleen Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Hi Ed! Yamaha's YESS mount is their answer to suspension-mounting (like the RIMS system) without using extra hardware. Instead of truly suspending the drum by an additional piece of metal, they attach the tom holder with two bolts to the nodal point of the the shell (where it vibrates the least). This does make quite a bit of difference over a non-YESS mounted drum - more resonance and body, less of a choked off tone. The difference in mounting hardware is that YESS mount tom arms are shorter as they don't go through a hole in the shell like the standard Yamaha mount. YESS-mount tom holder: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Images/Drums/Product/Enlarged/TH-945.jpg Non YESS-mount tom holder: http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/Images/Drums/Product/Enlarged/TH-940.jpg recording/mix guy don gunn.com myspace.com/dongunnmusic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Gervais Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Ed, It's pretty simple really. Hardware for generations has penetrated the shell of the drums. The YESS hardware takes that out of he equation. There are those who believe that having anything within the drum body effects the sound of the drum. I've never seen any empirical proof that this is the case, rather it's a opinion (in my opinion) and becomes more a personal preference. I am interested in possible modifying my snare drums to use this method however - it would be nice to lose the snare stand. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coyote Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Most modern studio drum sounds call for eliminating 'ring' and the resonance that amplifies it, so the mounting system is basically inconsequential IMO. It makes me laugh to see guys who get the drums that have the best resonance, only to put Evans heads on 'em and deadringers and then muffle 'em and then gate 'em in the mix. Lotsa folks would be better off playing Tupperware boxes - maybe a set of those would work well in your studio? Seriously, the Yamahas sound real good. And the YESS system is standard for all their high-end gear, including your Birch Absolutes. I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist. This ain't no track meet; this is football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jode Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Originally posted by ed hamilton: Learning drum hardware lingo and configurations is as deep as audio/midi stuff!! I have spent many hours participating in the nichols(sob) massenberg forums. Please forgive my first appearence in the drum forum for being a question. No problem - that's what it's here for. And you're right, learning a new gear list can be daunting. Since you're looking for a kit that should be "all things to all people," I'd suggest budgeting in a couple of snare drums if you can swing it. I'd suggest having one metal snare and one wood snare, and perhaps a piccolo as well just for giggles. If you're limited to one snare, just get the one that sounds best to you. "I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it." Les Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ed hamilton Posted December 31, 2003 Author Share Posted December 31, 2003 Thanks for the info gents! I like the idea of the tupperware kit! These forums rule. Thanks again, Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tedly Nightshade Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 There are very, very few drums out there without hardware penetrating the shell. The stand mount is just part of it. After tightening up all the hardware (from inside the drum) on my bass drum, I have to think when it's well-implemented, some hardware clamping down on the shell can make things sound tight and focused. At one point I had one side of the hardware clamped down and the other yet untightened, loose after many months of resonating, and by tapping the shell, it was very evident the difference the tightening made. A good thing in this case- an exceptionally well designed drum! Also have a 18" tom with no hardware of any kind on the shell. The only thing touching the shell is the heads! It's suspended by a rope, actually... more resonant than most of you want or need, it's a tremendous thundering thing... anyway... A WOP BOP A LU BOP, A LOP BAM BOOM! "There is nothing I regret so much as my good behavior. What demon possessed me that I behaved so well?" -Henry David Thoreau Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Speers Posted December 31, 2003 Share Posted December 31, 2003 Rod G wrote:: I am interested in possible modifying my snare drums to use this method however - it would be nice to lose the snare stand. -If you happen to use a Gibraltar stand, they make a rack attachment that holds a snare and is completely horizontal. I havent tried it, so I cant say how stable or adjustable it is, but its work a look, especially for double-kick rigs. ----------------------------- coyote wrote: Most modern studio drum sounds call for eliminating 'ring' and the resonance that amplifies it, so the mounting system is basically inconsequential IMO. It makes me laugh to see guys who get the drums that have the best resonance, only to put Evans heads on 'em and deadringers and then muffle 'em and then gate 'em in the mix. -Eliminating 'ring' is pretty standard, but IMO only an idiot completely eliminates all resonance. Yes, some studio idiots do this, but usually because they have no clue how to keep a drum in control the proper way. My point is that, even for recording, highly resonant drums are a good thing. better to have too much and control it as needed, plus theoretically the sound is more pure. One thing is for sure: More shell resonance, even if controlled so its on the short side, adds to the timbral complexity of the drum, so there is more variation between loud and soft hits. That is one of my key requirements fro any good musical instrument, as it can better reflect the players emotions. ------------------- Note on Bleens photos: I want to mention an added benefit of the first photo he shows: Because of the hard-phenolic (rubber?) ball joint, this type of mount also cuts-down on sympathetic vibration from drum to drum, or from drum to cymbal. Some might consider that a problem, but in the studio I definitely consider it a plus. -Even more so with electronic pads, which are very prone to cross-talk. Such tom mounts are also available for non-YESS systems as well, from Pearl, Gibralter, and others. I HIGHLY recommend this type of mount for studio use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siberian Posted January 3, 2004 Share Posted January 3, 2004 do this quick test and you will hear the difference between old fashioned traditional drum hardware and modern suspension systems... Take a tom tom that is fairly well tuned that has the older kind of mount, whether it be the old Pearl style with the massive tube that was shoved right through the side wall of the shell, or anything with a shell mounted bracket that slipped over an L-shaped arm. Mount the tom as intended and hit it a few times. Better yet, get someone to hit it for you while you stand a few feet in front of the drum. Listen to it carefully. Now... take the drum off the mounting arm and suspend it by your finger tips under the top metal rim. Now hit it again and note the difference. You should be able to hear a difference. It will sound a bit more full, more sustain. That is the philosophy behind why you see just about every drum company now using some sort of suspension system that puts little to no tension on the shell itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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