captain54 Posted March 21, 2003 Share Posted March 21, 2003 I have a particular technical problem that in all my years of drumming I have never quite been able to overcome.... take for example, a four bar measure in 4/4 right hand plays eigths left hand quarters on 2 + 4 left foot quarters on 2 + 4 right foot eighths (1 and) (3 and), the only difference being adding quick sixteenth note before each kick strike on 1 and 3.... I have no problem playing this flat footed...I would like to find a way to improve this technique with the heel up in order get more power in to the batter head...the easy solution would be to go with a dual kick pedal, but this is something that I need to find a way to correct in my technique...any exercises or technique suggestions on how to solve this right foot problem?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 I'm not sure I understand what you are asking for, but it sounds like you want a louder hit on the kick drum, and you are not getting it using the 'heal-down' method. Correct? I don't think a double pedal would solve your problem, I think it would choke the drum and throw you off balance -just my opinion. I'm a heal-down player, and I think I could probably hit about as hard as the heal-up player. I don't think it's worth breaking an established technique for. If heal-down is what you are comfortable with, then that's how you should play. In terms of excersizes, you simply need to play slowly. Get a sense of how your foot needs to move in order to get THAT power, and then keep playing (slow) to let your brain and your foot get used to doing it that way. Like all things, it will take time. If you try to do it fast, you'll just get a sloppy kick with no dynamic control. Slower is better. To be honest though, I'd be more concerned about how your pedal is set up and how your drum is tuned and dampend. I've played kits where the pedal was so tight and poorly set up, and the drum had a Delux king-size bedspread jammed in for dampening... I mean, King Kong couldn't get any power out of setup like that! That would be the first area I'd look into. Make sure the drum and the pedal are working WITH YOU. I can't think of too many times a drummer NEEDED to play HARDER... Softer, yes -but harder? Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeq Posted March 22, 2003 Share Posted March 22, 2003 To develop more power and control in your foot I strongly recommend the Ron Spagnardi bass drum book - it will have your foot flying. Super 8 is exactly right - play slowly. If you can do something slowly- no matter how slowly- you can eventually do it fast. Do it slow and for a _long _time and then very very gradually (over days and weeks) increase the tempo. Consider the possibility, however, that you don't need more power in your kick drum technique- maybe the other guys in your band need to TURN DOWN! If they won't maybe you should mic yourself through the PA or get some trigger thing happening. Drummers are usually the only ones who have to actually experience PAIN to get louder. Guitars and basses just have to turn a knob to get louder. All the famous drummers that we admire so much are mic'ed up at every gig and rehearsal. Most of these guys have very relaxed technique - they aren't killing themselves to get an extra couple of dB. That's the soundman's job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted March 22, 2003 Author Share Posted March 22, 2003 As far as right foot technique, I will be giving the Spagnardi book a try.... Its a matter of leverage with me..., so maybe its just me. but with a heel down approach, all the power seems to come from an ankle pivot, but it seems harder to remain in a tight groove that way... Heel up gives me a feeling of the whole body and leg in the groove, so I prefer to play that way...however, I've always lost some quickness that way and I never really paid much attention to changing that, but now I'd like to try to turn it around and play those quick sixteenths without the whole leg tightening up.. pedal adjustment is something also I could use some tips on...what's a good rule of thumb when adjusting a kick pedal?? I'm using a Tama Iron Cobra.... thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeq Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 There is something I do when I play heel up to do 2 quick notes in succession- kind of a drop the leg/ then kick the foot. There are some cats that can do it forever. I am not sure if this is the same thing as the heel-toe method. You might do a web search for videos of this technique. Pedal adjustment is such an individual thing. It's like telling someone else what sticks they should use. That being said, there are some generalizations that I would be willing to stick my neck out on. I think of the foot and pedal the same way as I think of the hands and sticks. In both cases you want to get that effortless relaxed rebound doing the work for you. You have to find the happy medium for the spring tension, but a lot depends on angle and sweep and technique. All I can really suggest is: experiment with your pedal (and others) The Spagnardi book will not have much to say about your technique. It will however, Kick Your Ass. Your chops will thank you. You may, in the process realize that there is nothing wrong with your technique that having better chops doesn't fix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super 8 Posted March 24, 2003 Share Posted March 24, 2003 I have my pedal set up with enough tension to get the pedal back when it rebounds -which is what the spring is supposed to be doing. I don't want the spring working against my foot. I'm not too particular about tension, but I have noticed that when the spring is tight, it's harder to play doubles, and play them in time. Plus, everything just seems to lack much feel. So -for me- less tension is better than more. I'd loosen to ALL THE WAY, and try playing it. See how it feels. See what it's lacking. Then try it tighten it little by little until it feels good to you. I don't see how you could go wrong with that. I keep my beater extended all the way and at about a 10'O-clock position (I'm estimating). If it's too far back, you are wasting energy. If it's too far forward you'll get no power. Experiment with it. Regarding my technique. I may be weird -I don't know. My drum teacher (a heel up player) taught me how to do a double. I came how and started playing doubles. I went back the next week and he couldn't figure out how I was going it with my heal down and told me I probably shouldn't do it that way. That was about 19 years ago -I never changed. I DO play with my whole leg for double strokes, and it IS a heel-toe kind of thing. I'll try to describe it... I LIFT my leg up My HEEL comes down first in the bottom end of the pedal and sends the beater into the drumhead -and then rebounding back The BALL of my foot comes down at the upper end of the pedal and executes the second stroke. NOW... A HEEL-UP player would do both strokes with the ball and toes of the foot. My technique is sort of an adaptation of my instructor's (from way back). He had a 'sliding' motion. Leg goes up. Front of the foot hits the back of the pedal (same place my heel hits) causing first stroke. Foot skips forward to top of the pedal and hits the second stroke. It's litterally a 'skip' with the ball-toe of the foot, whereas mine is more like a 'gallop' (back-front-back-front-back-front). I get plenty of power and plenty of control. I'm not telling you how to play. I'm just telling you how *I* do it, to offer you some different perspective. Once you've done it a few billion times you don't even think about it anymore, so it's kind of hard to describe. Super 8 Hear my stuff here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captain54 Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Originally posted by Super 8: I DO play with my whole leg for double strokes, and it IS a heel-toe kind of thing. I'll try to describe it... I LIFT my leg up My HEEL comes down first in the bottom end of the pedal and sends the beater into the drumhead -and then rebounding back The BALL of my foot comes down at the upper end of the pedal and executes the second stroke. mine is more like a 'gallop' (back-front-back-front-back-front). I get plenty of power and plenty of control. I'm not telling you how to play. I'm just telling you how *I* do it, to offer you some different perspective. Once you've done it a few billion times you don't even think about it anymore, so it's kind of hard to describe. You described it pretty well...I tried your technique and it took me a little getting used to, but it really does work with a lot less effort than the heel up method you described...(the heel up method you describeis pretty similiar to techniques I've seen from Dave Weckl and Jeff Porcaro videos, but they describe it as more of a "slide" with the ball of the foot from the back of the pedal and to the front of the pedal..I could never get it feeling natural for me, however). your method is cool though...what I like is the foot doesnt do a lot of dancing around on the pedal, right? It seems like its more of a rocking motion with the foot from front to back...interesting...all these years I've been playing with the ball of the foot in one spot on the pedal...and I can see why I've had some problems with double strokes now.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.