Writing Bass Licks

[h364]

Hi guys,

 

For those of you who read my last post, ive managed by the skin on my teeth to borrow a rig off my dads cousin, for the gig in two weeks, i dont know much about it but i thinks its a trace elliot head, through a peavey 1x15. What a life saver!

 

Anyway, so i was the singer of my band, things changed, and im glad, i defintaly want to get some bass playing gigs under my belt. Just to see what its like.

 

So, noramally we do a large variety of popular rock based music, cover band thing. But at the minute weve ventured into our own material, we have four new songs, that have progressed fabulously, alomost one every practice. Anyway, i need to write bass licks for all 4, now i really dont want to have to do like boring root note stuff, i really want to stand out and impress, almost like flea does, i want to be noticed and heard, i would like maybe a cross between some kind of octave slap lick, and basic rythmical patterns.

 

So really how do you guys go about writing stand out bass lines? Espically your own slap riffs?

 

Thanks, Harrison

[JonathanD]

I dont like stand out bass lines much. Now... there is a large differance between stand out and route note. This means there is a lot that falls betweent he 2 polar examples.

How I go about it is to see what chords are being played and outline each one with the basic arppagio and any added notes like 7ths etc. While Im doing thta I get a feel for the rhythm. Once I find a rhythm I like I start to incorperate the notes other than the root into the song. the coolest stuff comes when moving from one chord to another for me. find the notes that work for both chords and use those, sliding etc to get fun sounds.

 

Honestly, without a good understanding of theory, or a very good ear, or jsut lots of practice(years) I would suggest starting simple and moving from there. or get recordings of the songs and play to them over and over until you find something you like. also, dont be afraid to change the octive your in if say the pre chorus and chorus share chord structure. maybe if you re playing 7 10 7 10 on the A string you could change to 7 3(E) 7 3(E) witht he 3 on the E string being the same note and octive down. So in both places you are playing E G E G but they sound different.

 

Again, I wouldnt suggest trying to stand out right off the bat. But thats just me.

 

Jonathan

[Seamy ALB]

What you play for a line in a song should be a reflection of how the song makes you feel or what emotion the song is trying to convey. I try to take a cue from song lyrics and use that as a direction for my part of the total composition.

 

Think mood intstead of math.

[jeremy c]

Originally posted by h364:

So really how do you guys go about writing stand out bass lines? Espically your own slap riffs?

Sit around practicing all day until you come up with a good idea. For a song in which the bassline is supposed to stand out, it's a good idea to come up with the bassline first and then write a song around it.

[sduross]

For some pointers on standing out melodically while still being supportive, I would recommend checking out some Steve Harris with Iron Maiden. Brilliant!

[DavidMPires]

Have a look to the gosth of the Navigator for example.

 

You can have also a look to John Myung, from Dream Theater, where you can listen to loads of harmonies, whille locking with Portnoy.

[Phil W]

Why so keen to stand out/impress?

 

I think the best response I get is either people dancing/grooving or someone saying "Wow, this band sounds so good. I wonder why?" I know it's because of me (t-i-c). Does it really matter if the audience do?

 

Solid, grooving, basslines that breathe and support the music are what satnd out to other musicians.

 

More often, though, lines stand out because they're badly played, badly phrased, out of tune , out of key or difficult for the other lusicians to play over.

 

I enjoy basslines that can stand alone as well as being supportive though so here are some thoughts in that direction.

 

1 Work out a bassline that fits the tune; then play it alone and make sure it sounds melodic and interesting by itself; the check it still fits the tune.

 

2 Know the chords but don't worry about paying all the roots all the time, sometimes a melodic line can work (best to sing a line either out loud or in your head then play it). One way is to stay on the same chord while everyone else changes (pedal).

 

3 Make absolutely certain you will not detract from the vocals or soloist.

 

4 Subtract from the part - using space and repetition makes a part stand out - listen to dub.!

 

5 If you're slapping, one of the main considerations is that the part fits with what the drummer is doing (often a problem)

 

6 Do some muted drum-style fills very now and then - or my overused trick - some huge slides - they always stand out!

 

7 As a teacher once told me, "You have to be a witty bassplayer". Don't play licks all over the song. One carefully placed, well executed flash-sounding idea in a song will stand out more than 30 of them in a song!

 

8 Root notes are not boring - it just depends what you do with them.

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by h364:

So, noramally we do a large variety of popular rock based music, cover band thing. But at the minute weve ventured into our own material, we have four new songs, that have progressed fabulously, alomost one every practice. Anyway, i need to write bass licks for all 4, now i really dont want to have to do like boring root note stuff, i really want to stand out and impress, almost like flea does, i want to be noticed and heard, i would like maybe a cross between some kind of octave slap lick, and basic rythmical patterns.

Wonderful replies so far.

 

I assume the originals are in the same vein as the covers? I'm too lazy to look up your previous posts. Can you give a set list of the "popular rock" covers you guys have done? (Or a link to a previous thread with this info.) Right now all I have to go on is your mention of Flea, which makes me think you guys may sound a bit like RHCP.

 

One of the reasons Flea stands out in RHCP is because the other guys give him room to work. If your drummer sounds like he's playing a constant fill through the entire song instead of laying down a beat/pattern, your guitarist is playing non-stop EVH tap guitar instead of laying back and comp'ing some chords, and your singer only pauses long enough to take a breath instead of leaving space between phrases/sections, then that doesn't leave much sonic space for bass. (In fact, it would probably sound pretty bad even without bass.)

 

As others have mentioned, you have to craft a bass line that improves the song. The song is the most important thing, not the bass line. True enough, some songs are defined by an interesting bass line. However, this is not the way all songs are put together. Some songs just wouldn't sound right without long, sustained root notes in the bass, or some other such sparse arrangement.

 

So, assuming the drummer is just laying down an energetic beat, the guitarist is playing mostly rhythm (i.e. just strums chords, as is the case with most of today's rock bands), you don't have a lead guitarist in the band (or if you do, he's pretty subdued), you should be able to take a lead instrument approach (and share that with the lead guitarist, if any).

 

If you want to play slap bass, you'll probably want to listen to other slap players first to figure out how they do it and what works. Find at least five slap players you like and listen to several songs they play. Analyze what they're doing and incorporate the things you like into your playing. (Maybe try searching the forum for "slap" for some suggestions of top players. I think a trip down "funky lane" will be well worth it for you.)

 

To me, slap is more about rhythm than anything else. Pay particular attention to PhilW's 5th point: make sure it works with the drummer.

 

Also PhilW's 1st point: make sure it works with the song. A few months ago I had dinner at a restaurant with a live jazzyish trio: vocals, piano and bass. It was pretty good for the most part, but every now and then the bassist would throw in a slap lick. Even on a slow ballad. First off they were way too loud since his volume was set for light-touch fingerstyle. Secondly they just didn't fit the songs. The musical equivalent of a big, nasty pothole in the road, the kind that makes you want to stop and count your teeth to make sure you still have them all.

 

Anyway, you have to learn how to use the basic tools first; not just the mechanics of slapping, but the little riffs that work. Like learning words to build a vocabulary. From there you can engineer a bass line, stringing together riffs and spaces in a planned fashion. Or you can take a more artistic approach (preferred) and just experiment until you find something you like (as Jeremy explains). Or even a little of both.

 

That's why it's so important to listen to other players. Unless you're a genius -- or that lucky one-in-a-million monkey sitting at a typewriter that randomly types out Shakespeare -- you have to learn the language (music) and dialect (genre). The technique things, like slap, pop, ghost, etc., are like the phonetics: they're not the words themselves, but the sounds that you use to make the words. Some words go together well; others sound awkward together. Some go together so well they become common phrases you hear over and over.

 

In disco (sorry, the only slap I feel comfortable enough to discuss), two common words are: "slap pop" (even 8ths, the pop is an octave above) and "slap pop-pop" (8th and two 16ths, again the pops are octaves. (Disco was all about octaves.) Probably the most common phrase using just these two words is "spp sp spp sp". (Chances are this won't work at all with what you're trying to do.)

 

So go learn some old school funk slap vocabulary, some "today's rock" slap vocabulary, come up with some of your own words and phrases, and mix it all up.

[h364]

Sorry i made it sound totally wrong, im self taught, and no virtually nothing towards theory, forget the whole 'stand out' thing.

 

How do you a write a bass lick? You also keep saying things about chords and stuff, is it all just guess work or is there something behind it all, i like i said have just been playing for fun, so i usually just learn other artists songs, i like the slides but if i were to write my own, is there some kind of rule for how far to go and what note to hit?

 

Sorry to be a pain, Thanks

[Eric VB]

Originally posted by h364:

[...] forget the whole 'stand out' thing. How do you a write a bass lick?

Same as above. Listen. Analyze. Build a vocabulary. Creatively put it all together.

 

Private lessons should make things easier, because a lot of songs have already been analyzed and the vocabulary distilled.

 

How do I write a poem in haiku format on the War of 1812 that includes a reference to Greek mythology? Well, I better know something about haikus, the War of 1812, and Greek mythology, no?

[JonathanD]

No pain at all.

Yes there is something behind it all... its Theory.. YAY.

WHen I didnt know theory, I would just play to a song until i found something I liked.

 

I would suggest getting a good bass teacher, even if its only for a few months, to help you get on track. Then keep working on the ideas she/he gave you.

 

Best of luck

 

For now (If you are in standard tuning) playing root 5 (you seem to know where the root is, go down a string and move toward the pickups 2 frets. thats the 5th.) and alternating between them. Or octaves as you said. Slap+poping root/octave would sound good if the song called for it. But not great through the whole song most often. and not on every tune either IMO.

 

Biggest thing to do IMO is thump the beat to hell and have a good time. Do what you can easily do at home and then continue to get bettwer and wrk your way to more complex bass lines when you are not rushed.

 

Best of luck, Jonathan

[Tom Capasso]

I can't help you with the slap stuff.

 

I like stand-out bass lines, or interesting fills. As was said, they have to fit and not detract from (or screw up) the rest of the song.

 

If you are at rehearsal and trying a new song, that doesn't give you much time to work on a cool part. Do what you can, but find a way to "take it home for later".

 

I like to sing the parts as much as I like to have my hands craft them. And after my first idea, I try to listen again and craft something completely different. The final part is most like the initial part with some improvements from later attempts.

 

Tom

[Nicklab]

Where to start? I guess I'll try to tackle this from my own vantage point.

 

Usually I play gigs where I get to come up with my own parts. For the past few years that's been original bands with some sessions sprinkled in here and there. I start by listening to the barest arrangement of the song. Usually that's going to be vocals with guitar or keys. I listen for what really grabs me about the tune and I try to build from there.

 

At this point there's going to be involvement with a drummer as well as other musicians as you flesh things out. This is where getting into the beat of the song is going to be important. This is where you try to blend the ideas that you heard in that skeletal version with a never before heard band version. And this is where you need to start making decisions for yourself. Does the song have a really great vocal that should really be out front? Then perhaps you should lay back and let that vocal part shine. Is it riff based, calling on you to lock in a great deal with the guitarist and drummer? Is it a little more free for interpretation, letting you go wild a bit? Maybe you should be playing a counterpoint to the vocal? The possibilities can be almost limitless.

 

The point I'm trying to make is that every tune is going to be different. And more often than not these tunes aren't going to lend themselves to any kind of formula for coming up with bass parts. It's going to fall to you to come up with something you like for a song. Sometimes that will come to you quickly or sometimes it's going to take a good deal of trial and error. The best thing I can recommend is that you listen to a lot of music. Listen to some bass players whose work you really enjoy and respect. Listen to how they approach a song and ask yourself why they're doing what they're doing in a given song. You may wind up mimicing some of what they do initially. But at some point you're going to find your own voice and your own ideas will start to flow more freely.

 

In my own case, if I want something to stand out, I write a melodic bass part. But I usually only do so when there's space for that kind of part. To accent it a bit more I might play with a muted picking style so that the attack is more pronounced. But I try not to go to that well too much. I stay away from slap parts because musically they don't fit with the material I play.

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by Phil W:

I enjoy basslines that can stand alone as well as being supportive though so here are some thoughts in that direction.

 

1 Work out a bassline that fits the tune; then play it alone and make sure it sounds melodic and interesting by itself; the check it still fits the tune.

 

2 Know the chords but don't worry about paying all the roots all the time, sometimes a melodic line can work (best to sing a line either out loud or in your head then play it). One way is to stay on the same chord while everyone else changes (pedal).

 

3 Make absolutely certain you will not detract from the vocals or soloist.

 

4 Subtract from the part - using space and repetition makes a part stand out - listen to dub.!

 

5 If you're slapping, one of the main considerations is that the part fits with what the drummer is doing (often a problem)

 

6 Do some muted drum-style fills very now and then - or my overused trick - some huge slides - they always stand out!

 

7 As a teacher once told me, "You have to be a witty bassplayer". Don't play licks all over the song. One carefully placed, well executed flash-sounding idea in a song will stand out more than 30 of them in a song!

 

8 Root notes are not boring - it just depends what you do with them.

+1.

 

On root notes...there's literally several thousand different ways to play a measure of root notes. Seriously. There's the often forgotten attributes of music: rhythm and dynamics. Music ain't just pitches.

 

For slap, you can try popping something other than the almost-always-reached-for-octave. Learn what the chords are in the song, learn what notes are in those chords, then figure out which of those notes sound good popped while you're slapping the root and the chords are playing. Once you figure that out, then figure out what other notes (diatonic tones and even chromatic tones) add color to your bass line. Then make sure it all works with what the drummer is playing.

 

I've actually gotten entirely sick of hearing AND playing slapped bass lines that have the typical slap low/pop high motif. Just as a thought, learn to pop the same note (ie. same string) that you are slapping. It's not difficult at all, but I think it's quite non-obvious to a lot of bassists. If you slap and pop the same note, that enables you to take a bass line that you would normally play fingerstyle and slap it...your left hand is more freed up to move around, do walks, etc. I have found for myself that this lets me do some slapped bass lines that don't sound like the typical slapped bass lines. If I'm not making this clear, go to www.ipass.net/davesisk/music/bass and listen to the slapped part of "Funky Birthday"...all the slaps and pops are on the same notes.

 

Dave

[Rui]

Writing Riffs:

 

Basically what everyone else in here has said. As for flea. The only reason he's able to play the way he does is because its a 3 piece (excluding singer), Chad Smith is a very solid drummer, and John mostly just plays rhythm.

 

Ok. In order to write bass riffs, you first need to know what they sound like. You need to listen to music like the type you're playing (relatively simple bass lines avoid RHCP for now) Get the chord sheet for the song (you can find this on the net easily enough) then work out the bass line using the chord sheet and listening to the song.

 

DONT just Download a tab because then you wont understand the choice of notes. If you try and work out the lines yourself with the chords you will begin to understand what you can play underneath different chords and what works and what doesnt. This is by far the best way of progressing in this department (IMO)

 

If you want a quick 101 though which is what i sense you're after, then mainly you need to make sure the bass fits ontop of what the drummer is playing. Firstly just use root notes until you find a rhythm that grooves with the drummer. Once you're both locked in together then worry about other notes. Good choices for Rock: root, fourth, fifth, seventh, and the octave. You can play those all night long and not go wrong.

 

One popular riff based idea is to use the root, fifth and octave (in essence a power chord) dont strum it. Go up and down then like an arppegio (broken chord) that riff is used in countless and I do mean countless rock songs, from Hendrix to Free, so quavers root fifth octave root, then repeat. Dont over do that tho it will get tedious fast throw things like this in here and there. GOod places are transitions between verse and chorus. Try and make the Chorus a little more interesting than the verse, or simply make the verse simpler than the chorus. This will give the effect of a more intense Chorus.

 

Im assuming here you understand the concept of root, fourth, fifth, seventh etc etc and how they change when the chord changes in these circumstances.

 

A good band to get u started on listening and working out simple bass lines would probably be the Beatles.

 

Hope thats helpful.

[Moe Monsarrat]

I don't slap all that much, but I write lines almost every day in the studio. I also have no formal training. I usually play one of two styles. One is to play mostly roots & 5ths with the kick drum. The notes in these lines are very obvious, but effective. The other style is to play a melodic line that is independent of the kick drum. When I'm going to write a melodic line, my first thought is to follow the notes the singer is singing. Paul McCartney is a master of this style of writing. Listen to what he does with the notes the singer is singing when he writes the bass part........Get It?

[Phil W]

Originally posted by Dave Sisk:

On root notes...there's literally several thousand different ways to play a measure of root notes. Seriously. There's the often forgotten attributes of music: rhythm and dynamics. Music ain't just pitches.

 

Amen to that!

 

I love to slap but don't get to do it often anymore. If you do it in the wrong context or badly it will sound awful. I've been to gigs and heard inexperinced bassists play slap and pop lines badly out of time with the music and loud enough that nobody misses it. If you want to slap it's worth spending a few months getting your chops togther before trying it on stage, belive me. I like to use a lot more slap than pop - at least 9-1.

 

A good way to sneak in a bit of slap is to just use an occasional popped accent in a fingerstyle line - that really stands out - I really mean one or two pops only though. Either that or throw in some rhythmic slap fills (that fit with the drummer's parts) but heavily mute all the notes.

 

Given your level of experience you might just want to just throw in a couple of little spacious melodies along with mostly roots - you only need a couple of notes to create a little melody - just play what you hear - or double a repeated vocal line in the final chorus.

 

Regarding slides, the main thing is don't miss the root on one in most styles of music but the slides can finish wherever sounds good as long as they're played with passion and not overused. Sliding into a target note is also effective. Slides often start just before the beat.

 

There's always the blues scale!

[Phil W]

But with scales, whatever you do, don't just run the scale but make up little melodic phrases with a few of the notes.

 

I think this quote from Jonathan Herrera is the most important thing to bear in mind!

 

"Something I really took from Jerry Watts, Chair of the Bass Department, was this notion of when you play something, don't think about it, but do it deliberately with strength and confidence. Like if you're going to play a bass line, play it energetically, play it with intention, and I guess that applies in all kinds of ways, of course. It's true in words on a page, and it's true on stage at a concert. People are incredibly intuitive about this stuff. They can feel it even if they may not be able to describe why. They can sense your enjoyment level of what they're hearing you play, and it affects how they hear your performance."

 

That's what really matters.