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Highs and lows in seperate amps


davesetchfield

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After years of thinking it would work for me, I've finally started splitting my low and high frequencies into seperate amps. The set up favoured by Sheehan, Pinnick, Entwistle and others. I take the parallel output from a Hartke Bass attack pedal into my normal rig (Hartke HA3500 and Ampeg 410) with a fairly "normal" sound,since my bass has plenty of lows and mids but hardly any highs. Then I run the line out of the pedal with all bass off and treble on full into a battered old laney 40 watt guitar combo again with full treble and no bass. It sounds great,but my question is this- to make the setup more compact would it work to internally split my 410 into two 210s run the hartke head into one for the lows and a cheap guitar head into the other for highs. I ask because currently I find that I'm actually turning the 40 watt amp down to match it with the 350 watt head since the highs cut through so well and the 210 idea would mean devoting half my power to lows and half to highs. Perhaps keeping the 410 for lows and adding a 210 for highs would be better. Sorry you had to read all that! I'd welcome your thoughts. Dave.
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Along those same lines, I have considered running my P Bass neck pickup thru one set of Vol & Tone pots into a left channel stereo output Jack plug and then the Jazz Bass Bridge pickup into it's own Volume and Tone pots and into the right channel of the same stereo jack out put. Carrey one stereo instrument cord into a stereo preamp.

Out of the preamp go to a high power dedicated amp into a 2 X 15 bass cabinet and then a seperate amp / cabinet more suited for the highs. It's just a dream I had one night after eating too much hot Chile.

Rocky

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote."

Benjamin Franklin

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I would think that a big part of the sound you're getting from the highs comes from having them in a separate, guitar-oriented cab.

 

When I do distortion through my laptop effects rig, I actually do split the signal, half through a bass overdrive with the tone down and half through a Tube Screamer/Marshall plugin. Obviously they rejoin at the same output, but the idea is basically the same. You could do the same thing with a Boss LS-2 and a few guitar pedals. The LS-2 is a really handy pedal to have anyway, even if that doesn't work out for you.

 

The highs are going to be higher-powered anyway, just due to the physics of it. You're not technically going to be devoting half your power to highs and half to lows.

 

I've thought about doing the stereo pickup routing that Rocky's discussing. But I'd probably just buy a Rickenbacker instead of tampering with my jazz bass too much.

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Uh, not sure you'd want to wire your 4x10 as two separate 2x10's. Wouldn't that mess with the tuning/porting of the enclosure? (I'll let the more experienced types answer that.)

 

I'm not familiar with your effects pedal. Are you running a parallel output to the mono input of your bass rig? Why not use a mono output?

 

You're able to send a different signal through the line out from the pedal?

 

The way I've seen it, most guys use a crossover to split the highs and lows. One mono signal goes through a crossover and two mono signals come out: highs and lows. (Just use two sets if you want stereo ins and outs.) Send the highs to a guitar rig and the lows to a bass rig. (It's the same idea as biamping.)

 

Add effects or whatever to each signal coming out of the crossover as you see fit. For example, maybe add some distortion to the high/guitar side.

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Originally posted by Rocky3840:

Along those same lines, I have considered running my P Bass neck pickup thru one set of Vol & Tone pots into a left channel stereo output Jack plug and then the Jazz Bass Bridge pickup into it's own Volume and Tone pots and into the right channel of the same stereo jack out put. Carry one stereo instrument cord into a stereo preamp.

Out of the preamp go to a high power dedicated amp into a 2 X 15 bass cabinet and then a seperate amp / cabinet more suited for the highs. It's just a dream I had one night after eating too much hot Chile.

Rocky

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote."

Benjamin Franklin

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What about splitting the sound with a crossover?

 

I've used preamps that had a crossover system as part of the unit.

 

My SWR amps are set up to do exactly what you want, you can patch the amp to send highs somewhere and lows somewhere else. I'm sure other brands have something similar.

 

But actually the system you are using seems to be working, why mess with it? How hard can it be to carry around a 40 watt guitar combo?

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Sounds like you're not really biamping per se (splitting the highs and lows into different signals using a crossover), just sending the same signal EQ'd differently to two different rigs. The parallel out on the pedal is a flat, unaffected tuner-out type of deal I'd assume. Then you're sending the main output that reflects the boosted highs to the guitar combo, right? If you like the sonic results, don't change it. Biamping will likely sound totally different to you. You might want to try it in a store to see what you think...find a store with an SWR head like Jeremy suggested (or one of the Hartke heads that supports biamping), and take 2 short patch chords with you...pull the the manual so you'll know how to patch it up for biamping, then have the store help you connect up a low cab and a high cab, and try it out.

 

I've tried biamping before, and I didn't particularly care for how it sounded (of course, that had a lot to do with my gear at the time). To me, it just sounded better to have both cabs running full-range...even though each cab reproduced different frequencies better/worse than the other, the overlap in the mix reinforced a good range of frequencies, IMHO.

 

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

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When I think about Hi's and Low's I tend to think

Hi-Fi frequency response. On a 6 string bass, what is the highest note (Hz) we would likely use regularly?????? No where near 20,000 HZ.

I'm thinking, our normal hi-quality bass amp will cover the full range quite nicely. Maybe !

Rocky

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote."

Benjamin Franklin

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Rocky, the problem is that the sound of that note is made up of harmonics that will rise far above the fundamental, even if it stops below 20KHz.

 

I've used low-pass filters set at 16KHz on a bass sound. Even that has a very noticeable effect on the tone of the bass, especially if you like top end or use distortion.

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If you just wan't less to carry, you could try the crossover route just adding a 1x10 or even 1x8 cabinet.

 

Messing with the 4x10 will incur all sorts of problems with frequency phasing and cabinet/amp impedance matching.

Feel the groove internally within your own creativity. - fingertalkin

 

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Ya, a small 1X10 would do fine IMO. Highs dont need much wattage to cut through.

I would never in 100 years mess with makeing a 4X10 cab into 2X2X10 unless i didnt really want to keep it;) I have tried a crossover, it works just fine if you take the time to set it right.

If ya need more highs, Het a cab with a tweeter that will give them to you, If yu ahve a place for a tweeter already and its not doing its job, maybe replace it with one that has i higher range, or more wattage/ohms pull.

Maybe get a 31 or 15 band eq and mess with that to see if you can get the sound you want out of jsut your bass rig. I have a 9 band on my amp, it is enough to give me what i want. But i would go 15 for an outboard jsut to be safe. Also, i would but a rack mount unit, cause eq pedal in my experiance suck something fierce for bass.

Good luck mate, Jonathan

 

 

 

 

 

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