Handicapped?

[Swed_bass]

How much am I limping as a bassplayer if I don´t (Ok, can´t) slap?

 

I know that nobody is concidering Jaco, James J, and other immortal heros suffering from oldschool fingerpicking and I very well understand that even today you can manage a lot without slapping. Funk sounded funky even before the slapping was invented... Yes? No?

 

Yet, I can clearly see the tendency that the bassists who today get the spotlight pointed at them are bigtime slappers. I find the technique impressive.

 

How important is it, honestly?

 

Can I just stick my head in the sand and find the oldtimers with rock/blues gigs, who wouldn´t understand or care about it anyway?

[Rowbee]

I really enjoy slapping but to be honest I think finger style funk sounds way funkier than slap so if you're really good at fingerstyle funk, I wouldn't worry.

[DC Ross]

IMO, it's simply a tool -- like a hammer -- and you certainly can't do everything with a hammer.

I'll slap a few notes here and there for emphasis or to mix things up a bit. It's a valid technique, but I think people tend to overuse it because it's flashy.

[jeremy c]

It's not very important until you are required to play a song which calls for a slapped part.

 

Depending on what bands you play with, that situation may be very easy to avoid.

[kosta]

how dare you show your face around here and not be a slap machine, be gone heathen!

Walk yourself right out the door!

[mcbn]

I don't really think it is a requirement. I'm not any good at it, although I'm working on my technique. It is a tool that you can work on, but not a requirement to play the instrument.

 

Something to think about: There are a lot of players who slap that really shouldn't.

[Dave Brown]

Lessee: It is a big part of the playing of Victor Wooten. However, if he didn't slap a note, he'd play incredible lines with groove.

 

It is a big part of the playing of Marcus Miller. However, if he didn't slap a note, he'd play incredible lines with groove.

 

It is a big part of the playing of Larry Graham. However, if he didn't slap a note, he'd play incredible lines with groove.

 

It is a big part of the playing of Flea.

 

It is a big part of the playing of Les Claypool.

 

Concentrate on the "incredible lines with groove" part of the equation. Slapping is flashy, but kinda like fish scales. Sure you can eat them, but you won't get full.

[funkybastard081]

it probably is important if you want to be a pro because sooner or later a slap part will come up and you will be paid to get the job done....

you can get away with not knowing how to slap if you playing is a hobby...

 

but in both cases learning and loving your art form means getting to know it's history and slap is part of our instrument's history... why?!? because people like larry graham, louis johnson and marcus miller have played historical bass lines using slap...if you like bass and music in general it's hard not to like or at least be curious about this stuff...i'm not saying you have to become victor wooten but don't be lazy about it if it's something you like... explore and you will grow!

[funkybastard081]

Concentrate on the "incredible lines with groove" part of the equation. Slapping is flashy, but kinda like fish scales. Sure you can eat them, but you won't get full.

Dave you are right but don't you agree on the fact that sound is part of the groove equation...those incredible lines are played with an incredibile groove that speaks through a slapped sound

[Basshappi]

I do not slap. I have not made much of a study of the technique.

 

While I agree that it is handy to know, if you're likely to be playing in a situation in which it is appropriate. I also feel that it's a dreadfully overused technique.

 

While there have been some real innovators of the slap style, most are just immitators with very little sense of style or originality in it's application.

 

I think of the technique as a fancy dessert, once in awhile it is a delight and therefore savored and appreciated. But if it's served every day it becomes dull and eventually even distasteful.

 

In my opinion technique should be used to enhance the music, not vice versa.

[Eric VB]

I appreciate the technique more when applied to URB. (Okay, not exactly the same thing, but it looks a lot cooler on URB. )

 

Jimmy don't slap and I don't care. (Sorry, I don't know who Jimmy is; must be the wine talking.)

 

I have minimal slap-abilities. I use it rarely, unless the guitar player is pissing me off.

 

Anyway, thanks for the new Ikea. It was hell being at the nexus of 3 of them, all 5 hours away (Toronto, Chicago, Pittsburgh).

[Big Red 67]

Originally posted by DC Ross:

IMO, it's simply a tool -- like a hammer -- and you certainly can't do everything with a hammer.

I'll slap a few notes here and there for emphasis or to mix things up a bit. It's a valid technique, but I think people tend to overuse it because it's flashy.

I can do just about anything with a hammer, but then again I am a carpenters son.

 

I am a Swedish American and gald to meet other Sweds. I can't slap all that well my self. I have devoloped a fingerstyle picking that I have found useful.

 

I just don't know what to do with my left hand, the right hand stuff I can do.

[Swed_bass]

Thanks for the input ya´all. Informative, entertainging and ecouraging! I think I got the amount of confirmation I needed. Summarized as follows.

 

Simple as Jeremy said, I need to stay off the songs that require slapping. Rowbee: I try not to worry, but I do. DC Ross: Overuse is indeed abuse. Kosta: I have no decency, what so ever. Nutt: I woudn´t want to become one of them who slap but really shouldn´t so for now I won´t. Dave: I can get into a pretty decent groove without slapping :-) Basshappi: If the main course is great you´ll be too full for a desert! Ric: I knew you´d want an Ikea in your ´hood. Big Red: Hej på dig! Funkybastard: I´ll try and avoid turning pro for now :-) (When I find a band I´ll tell them so)

 

So, polishing my fingerstyle to an awesome level could keep me floating at any level except being a professional session bassplayer. Maybe I´ll get a basic lession or two in slapping, the day I feel that it would be the logical next step, just to get a clue of it.

 

[Rowbee]

If you do fancy progressing at slapping you really can't go wrong with the Ed Friedland DVD Slap Bass - no, I'm not on commission.

[Dave Brown]

Originally posted by funkybastard081:

Concentrate on the "incredible lines with groove" part of the equation. Slapping is flashy, but kinda like fish scales. Sure you can eat them, but you won't get full.

Dave you are right but don't you agree on the fact that sound is part of the groove equation...those incredible lines are played with an incredibile groove that speaks through a slapped sound

The important part of slap isn't the sound, in my opinion. It's the ability to get interesting sixteenth patterns at high speed.

 

Of course, with Larry Graham and Marcus Miller, it is not about speed; it is about the tone.

 

But most people are enchanted by the "banjo roll" speed of alternating thumb and first finger.

 

The most important player who supports my argument is Jaco. Jaco didn't slap; he got his speed from great nimble fingers playing very close to the bridge so the string rebound didn't slow him down.

 

On "Come On, Come Over" from Jaco's first album, his groove is incredibly strong. Those finger funk dampened sixteenths in the B section are spot on, without rushing or dragging'

 

Most players cannot play fingerstyle this accurately. However, if they resort to slapping a line, their time improves.

 

I also disagree that to be a pro a player must slap. There is a lot of music to be played that doesn't require slapping.

 

I learned how to slap pretty well many years ago. It was cool; I could go in a music store and draw a crowd. However, I never found a way to work it in any tune I played. (Actually, I played it more in country music, alternating root and fifth in train songs like "Orange Blossom Special." Very gimmicky, and done mostly as a joke.)

 

I can slap, and if I'm in a slapping situation, I'll will. That happened exactly one time last year, in a Christmas tune on the final chorus.

[Phil W]

"larry graham, louis johnson and marcus miller have played historical bass lines using slap..."

 

- agreed, but I've heard a lot of pretty hysterical bass lines using slap from other musicians who should have known better.

 

"I think of the technique as a fancy dessert" - Yeah, slap as frosting!

 

I love to play slap bass and have been fortunate to have been in a few situations in the past where it was appropriate to the gig/recording.

 

I do remember working with a singer 15 years ago though who asked me not to slap because it made the music sound dated (then!).

 

I don't think I have ever been asked to play a slap line (but then I'm not a pro). Some have appreciated the technique when usd but no-one's directly asked for it.

I have been asked not to slap however!

 

I like to play it with heavyish strinmgs and an emphasis on the thumbed notes (with much less emphasis on the 'pulled' notes It's fun to mix it with some slides, muted notes and vibrato - my favourite slapper (oops, that sounds rude in England) is Mark Adams from Slave!

 

Dave Brown and Jeremy C have the responses down - they know the stuff.

It's a fun technique, you might want to do it one day. In terms of necessary technique/knowledge/skill it'd come pretty far down the list though.

 

Paul Jackson, Anthony Jackson and many others have dome fine without it!

[funkybastard081]

In my opinion a bass player that can't slap is like a classical double bass player that can't play pizzicato...

 

speed and 16ths notes are not important for me in this conversation....the posture, the tone, the attack and the vibe that you get when you slap are .....i'm just saying the more you can get out of the instrument the better ... why not try and expand your vocabulary?!?!

 

agreed, but I've heard a lot of pretty hysterical bass lines using slap from other musicians who should have known better.

let's leave negative examples out of the way....the problem is that slap is often associated with idiots thumping mindless notes with no musical meaning... the masters use this technique with taste and we should learn how to do the same if we like it ...

[Phil W]

I agree, I posted in favour of slap as a valid techinique against all the slap-haters in a recent thread. You can't ignore the fact that it is overused by amateur musicians who haven't got their rhythmic playing and groove feel together though.

The masters use slap brilliantly, listen to guys like Steve Billman and Michel Alibo use it often for moments at a time within a song. I love to hear Stanley, Meshell, Rhonda and others use it.

To compare the necessity of knowing slap technique with the necessity of playing pizzicato if you're a double bassist is bizarre however.

Many working bassists rarely have to slap and how many working double bassists never play pizzicato.

There must be a more valid comparisn - maybe a guitarist who doesn't know how to play slide guitar or a drummer who doesn't use rotatoms or something.

BTW

I love slap myself, especially in Afro-Cuban and Brazilian contexts!

I'd never consider it much of a handicap that it couldn't be done, any more than me not being able to double thumb or play with a pick (arguably more a handicap). Definitley less important a skill than sight reading, playing by ear, playing fingerstyle, improvisation, vibrato and dynamics, groove etc.

[Phil W]

previous thread for my own and any newcomers' reference

[funkybastard081]

To compare the necessity of knowing slap technique with the necessity of playing pizzicato if you're a double bassist is bizarre however.

I used that example because in orchestra you probably play with the bow 90 % of the time and you pluck the strings with your fingers now and then....more or less the same with slap...

 

i love slapping to but i over the years i've been trying to learn how to serve the songs and let technique serve the music and not the contrary...

[Dave Brown]

Well I've never put a ruler to it, but I think I pizzicato more than 10% of the time. I played an orchestra concert last night. I teach orchestra music, and pizzicato is pretty important for all string players.

 

I certainly don't hear slap in 10% of the rock/pop music I listen to.

[Phil W]

I thought you might have been referring to orchestral double bass as opposed to jazz etc. Even then, the ability to play pizzicato is obligatory for every orchestral/classical double bassist, isn't it?

 

- and slap isn't compulsory for us yet

 

[Phil W]

Errr...sorry Dave, I was typing at the same time as your last two responses rather than ignoring them.

 

I guess the broken wrist slows down the typing too!

[wraub]

I can slap. I have been doing it for years.

I am pretty good at it, and enjoy the technique.

I especially enjoy it when playing alone, and using it to provide rythmic counterpoint to melody lines.

 

That said, the last 3 bands I played in I played fingerstyle (or pick) all the way. The songs required no slap playing.

Nor have any of the songs I have recorded for others.

 

And so it goes.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[The Bear Jew]

Personally, I find slap bass annoying most of the time.

 

However, I know how to do it, and I will use the technique if the situation requires it.

 

It's better know how and never need it than to need it and never have learned.

[funkybastard081]

I certainly don't hear slap in 10% of the rock/pop music I listen to.

maybe that's the problem because i do...

 

- and slap isn't compulsory for us yet

i hate it when anything in music or art becomes compulsory but let's face it if you're a working pro you are expecting to know how to slap...

 

i've got the feeling we can go on forever

 

dave i know pizzicato is important but correct me if i'm wrong ... when learning to play the double bass a lot of focus is put on the bow isn't it?!!?

[BenLoy]

I've got it in my bag of tricks. I only pull it out every now and then. I play in one band currently which is all slap on not one, but TWO tunes...this is an all-time high for me.

 

It's a tool...if you don't have it in your arsenal you won't suffer too much unless the bandleader calls a lot of Larry Graham and Brothers Johnson tunes back to back. Even then, you can work around that.

 

If you're a bassist that only slaps, well, good luck getting a gig outside of NAMM...

[Phil W]

"i've got the feeling we can go on forever "

 

We can , and frequently do!

 

 

I could give you a huge list of pros that don't slap but there's little real point. Versatility is great and no-one's saying that if you can slap well, there wouldn't be more potential gigs/work for you. What we're arguing about is how much more work. Maybe in Italy, maybe in a funk cover band, maybe in some contexts slap is an essential skill but I would concur with Dave that I hear it used very little nowadays in most of the music I hear).

 

So why should Swed_bass limit himself? Of course, it's not good to limit yourself but you have to decide where your priorites lie. I've never lost an opportunity through not being able to double-thumb or use a pick. I'm limiting myself, but I have other priorites like improving my ear, memorising tunes, learning guitar and keyboards, sight-reading etc.

[funkybastard081]

i surrender

[Eric VB]

Well, try slap in a classic rock band. They'll usually show you the door. (Not long ago I did mention that I used some simple slap in Ted Nugent's "Stranglehold" ... and didn't get fired. )

 

Most of my jazz experience is Big Band. No slap there. I've gone to see other jazz players of various styles and can't remember any of them slapping.

 

Rockabilly and that URB slapping. I've seen it but never played it.

 

I've never tried out for a funk band. I don't know the catalog. I suppose there's lots of funk songs that call for slap. Number of funk songs I've played in my lifetime? Maybe one, when trying out for a gospel group, but I did fine getting crazy with just fingerstyle.

 

In summary, it may be more important for some genres than others. If you haven't come across it in the music you like to listen to and play, there's probably no harm in ignoring it.

 

Then there's tapping ...