Gruuve Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Great thread! I consider myself a bassist first, drummer second, vocalist third (and maybe guitarist 4th?...don't know if I can even attach that term to myself yet). Anyway, I can carry a tune, but I'm far from great. However, I try to make up for what I lack in pitch control by doing interesting vocal rhythms, choosing pitches carefully, putting a lot of effort into being very expressive, etc. Some folks are just natural at it...some folks really have to work at it. I'm one of those folks who really have to work at it. When I record vocals, I probably end up doing about 5 times as many takes as I require for bass or drums before I actually get it "right" enough that I think it's a keeper. So why do I even bother? Well, I figure the more you do something, the better you get at it. I can listen to stuff I sang 10 years ago, and I actually do pull off better takes now. I think it comes down to singing "smarter"...realizing what my limitations are, changing something that's difficult (either singing it differently or changing the key signature), etc. I've had the pleasure of working with two phenomenal singers in the past, and believe it or not one of them had absolutely no ego (a female) and more talent than I could ever develop if I practiced all day every day. It sure took going through quite a few folks to find a singer who could actually sing though. We found one good singer at a karaoke night (great singer, but the epitomy of a knucklhead), and the other was singing in a work chorus group and did a vocal solo. After several folks who couldn't have carried a tune in a bucket came in for auditions, we started asking candidates for a tape so we could hear what they sound like. No tape, no audition. Some of the tapes we got were just comical...a few were halfway decent. I remember one guy who swore he could sing just like Geoff Tate (Queensryche), but didn't have a tape nor a way to record one, so we had him come over and sing along with a CD. He couldn't hit anything even close to the right pitches...it was amazing to me that he even thought he could sing period, let alone sing like Geoff Tate. Some of those folks in the first rounds of American Idol auditions just kill me to...apparently they've never listened to themselves. I think those folks sing along with a CD or the radio and think they sound great, then when they try it without their "guide" track, they are lost. I really have to wonder if being able to sing well has as much to do with ears as it does with vocal chords. I kind of feel for the judges during those first round auditions...it's got to be really hard to sit there and listen to horrible attempt after horrible attempt day after day! Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlrush Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 quote by Dave Sisk: I really have to wonder if being able to sing well has as much to do with ears as it does with vocal chords. My thoughts exactly Dave. If you don't have a good ear, how will you be able to sing? Which goes back to the point made about the band being too loud. If the singer can't hear their own voice, it's hard to sing on key or not strain your voice. Both are not good. Having been a lead vocalist and bassist I know how hard it can be if you can't hear yourself. I like loud music, but not earsplitting loud. For most types of music that's a key point. Keep the volume at a reasonable level. Visit my band's new web site. www.themojoroots.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruuve Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Originally posted by slowfinger: Off on a tangent - Janis Joplin had a limited range. (but I love her to bits) 'R E S P E C T' has only 3 notes (C, G, & F). Just an observation Rocky - I guess it depends on the delivery. The type of song of which you write sounds dull and boring to me as well. The songs are for looking at, not listening to. Well said...just like playing bass, there's more to it than just pitches...there's rhythm, dynamics, articulation, expression, etc. A limited range doesn't necessarily make a bad singer...there are plenty of singers who have a limited range but are phenomenal on all other counts. I've discovered from some recent experiences that having a excellent voice doesn't necessarily make you a good singer either. That can be akin to having a great high-end bass, but not knowing how to play it. Someone may have a great voice, but they have to learn how to "play" that voice. There's a lot to it... Dave Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs. - Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky McDougall Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 Far above all other ways of making music, there are problbly, more singers than any other type of music particpant. I have read where there is a distinct differnece between males and females in music.. When a male listens to music he hears the instruments. When a female listens, she usually only hears the vocal. This may not be true but I thought it was interesting. When it comes to pitch, I think I have only listened to 2 or 3 female singers that I considered had close to perfect pitch. When Dave Grusin first heard Dianne Schuur he said she was the first he had ever heard with perfect pitch ?????????????? Rocky "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb, voting on what to eat for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb, contesting the vote." Benjamin Franklin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 I agree. The voice is an instrument to me (I am male)and the words are much less important. The words of a song are very important to my wife and the voice is separate from the instrumental. If the instrument/voice is out of tune, it doesn't matter what the words are though. I would like our singers just to get close and not ruin songs. Perfect pitch is a whole other topic. Like I said earlier in this thread, our singer can hit "notes" that make me think I have missed my mark entirely. I quickly look down at my fretboard to see what has gone wrong. Wow! "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 17, 2006 Share Posted May 17, 2006 How about getting some backing vocals (simple doubling, not harmony) happening? Having someone else in the band, even yourself as you obviously have a good sense of pitch, singing in tune should make the out-of-tune vocalist realise their problem. And if they still don't get it, then they don't deserve to call themselves vocalists... Alex Barefaced Ltd - ultra lightweight, high ouput, toneful bass cabs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Brown Posted May 17, 2006 Author Share Posted May 17, 2006 Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber: How about getting some backing vocals (simple doubling, not harmony) happening? Having someone else in the band, even yourself as you obviously have a good sense of pitch, singing in tune should make the out-of-tune vocalist realise their problem. And if they still don't get it, then they don't deserve to call themselves vocalists... Alex Yes. Working on that... "When I take a stroll down Jackass Lane it is usually to see someone that is already there" Mrs. Brown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowfinger Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 Another tangent: Originally posted by Ross Brown: ...and the words are much less important... Laff! Since starting to play in a band I have actually listened to the words of some old favourite songs for the first time - some are absolute nonesence - eg 'Heroes' by David Bowie. Epi EB-3 G-K Backline 600 2 x Eden EX112 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ATM Posted May 22, 2006 Share Posted May 22, 2006 I'm a horrible singer. Mostly because how I hear my voice is so dern different from what it actually is. When listening to an older recording of myself, I only recognize what I've said. Give the singer a good set of headphones so they can hear what they really sound like. ATM http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/atmofmn/Bass/DeepThoughtsBS.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruiser_dup2 Posted May 23, 2006 Share Posted May 23, 2006 I've been very fortunate in my last two bands, both have had excellent female vocalists. The singer with the current band is by far the best of the two; she has studied music and had voice lessons, and has sung with a jazz ensemble as well as choral work. She sounds even better recorded than live. No, I WON'T give you her phone number. I rarely listen to new pop music these days; there's just nothing to interest me there. But what I notice when I hear new music is that every singer delivers in a little, tiny, breathy voice. I don't hear anybody who can take a big deep breath, throw back their head, and really belt out a tune. I don't think most singers know anything about breath control, so it's no wonder they can't control their pitch. They can't support it, they don't have enough air in their lungs to maintain a note. And several people have mentioned singers who can only sing with a CD-- I've known guitar players and drummers like that, too. They're just following along, and if they screw up or stop it still sounds okay because the CD keeps going. They never really learn the song, so they're not confident enough belt it out on their own. Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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