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Biamp or parallel mono configuration?


kryptonite7

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I have a few questions of someone can email me some answers to this email: michaeldalton7@hotmail.com. I am a bass-rig virgin when it comes to different configurations. I have a peavey firebass 700 with 4x10's and i just bought a new Hartke head and 2 15's cab. everything is running at 4 ohms. I want to experience setting my rig to different configuartions rather than just the old parallel way, but i don't know how. My peavey amp has en effect send jack, effect return jack, pre-amp out jack, power amp in jack, low out/high out, and of course speaker output jacks. My hartke amp has two sets of output jacks (2 high out and two low out). Then it has effect send and effect return and that's it. Is it possible to make all this equipment into one rig??? If so please let me know. Any advice it worth apot of gold right now as I am experiencing in different sounds.
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the key to doing so is in the effects loops. on whichever amp you prefer the sound of most, use the effects send jack to connect to the other's effects return. you may have some trouble adjusting the volume of the second rig, since it will be dependent upon the first rig.

 

i would advise against experimenting with plugging the first amp's effects out into the second amp's instrument input. it will be a much higher level and will likely overdrive everything.

 

robb.

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also, i forgot to add that in either situation, you are neither biamping, nor operating in parallel mono. you'd just be using two separate amps for two separate sounds.

 

so everyone can get this straight, biamping is separating the instrument signal into two frequency bands and using separate amplification for each. in other words, you can use a two-channel amplifier with one channel devoted solely to frequencies below the crossover point, and the other channel devoted solely to frequencies above the crossover point.

 

parallel mono is a mode in two-channel power amplifiers in which both channels get signal from the same input, and are not reversed polarity. essentially, both channels are identical and no longer in true stereo. thus parallel mono.

 

reversing the polarity of one channel allows you to bridge the amplifier, using both channels together to double the power available to you.

 

usually you just have a switch on the amplifier that allows you to choose "bridge" or "parallel" modes. the fact that one channel's polarity is reversed is relatively transparent.

 

robb.

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As an alternative, you could use the pre-amp out jack of your Peavey and send that into the 'input' of the Hartke. The Peavey's preamp stages will be coloring the sound before it hits the Hartke; which is something to keep in mind when adjusting your EQs.
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Originally posted by robb.:

the key to doing so is in the effects loops. on whichever amp you prefer the sound of most, use the effects send jack to connect to the other's effects return. you may have some trouble adjusting the volume of the second rig, since it will be dependent upon the first rig.

 

i would advise against experimenting with plugging the first amp's effects out into the second amp's instrument input. it will be a much higher level and will likely overdrive everything.

 

robb.

So I would assume if I was truely biamping i would be using low out and high out x-over on the Firebass. I have a few more quesetions. . . Can I biamp without purchasing an externam crossover? So what are the pre-amp out jack, power amp in jack, for? Just curious and thanks for the information. I'll go experiment tonight!
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you can biamp using the firebass and using no external crossover. so your assumption is correct that you'd be using the low/high outs on the front panel. in the manual it says that the low frequency side of the crossover automatically gets routed to to the internal power amp section, so to biamp you'd use the high out jack to the effects in of the hartke.

 

bumpcity was also helpful in reminding that you can use the preamp out on the firebass for full range signals. the preamp out jack is used to send the preamp signal from the firebass to an external power amp.

 

the power amp in jack is used to send the signal from an external preamp into the amp section of the firebass.

 

or as peavey says in the manual:

 

(20) PREAMP OUT JACK

This 1/4" jack is used to route the preamp signal to external inputs, such as the input of an additional power amp. The signal is post volume control. Use of this jack does not defeat the signal to the MAX 700 amp (some volume difference may be noticed due to the impedance change experienced when adding an external unit to the signal patch).

 

(21) POWER AMP IN JACK

This 1/4" jack is used to input an external signal to the power amp section of the MAX 700. Using this jack will disconnect any signal from the preamp section. Using this jack along with the preamp out jack creates a possible second effects loop.

so if you're using the firebass as the first amp, you can use the preamp out or effects send signals. if you want to biamp, use the high out. if the hartke is the first amp, try using both the effects return and the power amp in. the effects return is post EQ and pre-master volume, so you'd be able to control the volume of the firebass if you used the effects return. the power amp in is post everything but the power amp.

 

have fun playing around, but be careful. don't go up too loud on the volume until you're sure it's connected properly.

 

robb.

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Ive been told repeatedly biamping is useless. but if its your thing cool. I was advised agaist getting two 8x10's but I'm still going to do it. If I can find the money..............

I knew a girl that was into biamping,I sure do miss

her.-ButcherNburn

 

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Originally posted by thanny XIII:

Ive been told repeatedly biamping is useless. ... I was advised agaist getting two 8x10's but I'm still going to do it. If I can find the money..............

people advised you against it because you demonstrated that you had no ability to actually make two 810s louder than many people using single 410s. and you're still somehow convinced that simply using two cabinets is biamping.

 

there's something really annoying about people who ask for help, tell all the people offering help that they're wrong because they didn't tell you what you wanted to hear, and then hijack another thread to bring up your own issues again.

 

robb.

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Wow! Great advice all arouind by robb.! You'd think he worked for Peavey or something. ;)

 

kryptonite7, which model Hartke do you have? It sounds like you have a 7000 or something.

 

Uh, when you say "everything is running at 4 ohms", what exactly do you mean? I'm guessing all your cabs are 8 ohms, and when you run two of them in parallel from a given head, the combination is 4 ohms? If this is the case, why not just drive all four cabs with one head, 4 ohms on each channel?

 

I run a stereo signal from my effects box to two identical rigs. You should be able to do something similar, assuming you have something that generates stereo. Also, this works best if your 4x10s are exactly alike and your 1x15s are exactly alike. I'm just running a single 4x10 on each rig, but I wouldn't mind adding a pair of 1x15s myself. (It would be overkill, mind you, but it would look great in my basement! :thu: )

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I also have a Peavey Firebass and 410... if you need more sound you must be looking for some serious thunder. You might try using the Hartke 215 cab with your current Peavey setup. On a few different occassions I used added either a 410, 210, or 8x8 to my rig. Mucho thunder was brought.

 

What adding the additional 4 ohm cab will do is bring your Peavey head down to 2 ohms, pushing the full 700 watts. I didn't have any problems with this for up to 4 hours of continuous playing at a level that will make your ears bleed.

 

Option #2 is to do what Robb & Bump have talked about. Use the "Preamp Out" on your Firebass and run it to the Hartke head. Experiment with running this to either the "Input" or "Effects Return" of your Hartke head.

 

Good luck, WEAR EARPLUGS!!!!

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yeah, i guess "garbage in, garbage out". i hadn't considered that he'd just want to get louder. i assumed there was something special about using two amps, and it's not just that, for whatever reason, there wasn't a plan to use the 2O capability with the firebass. good point, NUTT.

 

robb.

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Don't worry I will do it. And Robb I plan to run the two 8x10's in stereo with one power amp which I realize is not biamping and I was merely restateing advice given to me by others.

I knew a girl that was into biamping,I sure do miss

her.-ButcherNburn

 

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Originally posted by way2fat:

BTW, everyone is going to hate you, develop a thick skin.

Screw them... rock and roll is not a popularity contest. Oh... wait...

 

Everyone (including the sound man) is going to be jealous because of your gigantic, gorgeous monster rig.. oh, forget that I mentioned "monster", because the folks at Monster Cable will likely send a letter if I keep it up.

 

Anyway, back to the jealousy thing... everyone is going to be jealous. People are going to hate on you. Sometimes it will stink. But you will have to work through it. You have to be you if you ever want to be truly happy. Playing through some tiny, reasonably portable rig just to appease bandmates, soundmen, audiences, etc. will never be fulfilling, so why do it? Deal with the jealousy and get stronger from it. Be YOU.

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[i'm stepping on Getz's post because I can - it's fun to pretend to be him]

 

And save some of that lesson money - you won't need lessons anyway. Use the cash for hearing aids and psychiatric therapy. The love/hate thing will mess with your head, and the volume will scramble your brains, so you need therapy to stay on track.

 

And remember that once you have those two cabs and realize what you've done, they are too heavy to ship when you try to ebay them.

 

Getz (or his temporary stand-in)

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4 4x10's, amigo, and you'll have a larger market potential when you come to your senses. ;) One day you'll say to yourself, "Man, that old geezer was right. What was I thinking?". But seriously, dude, for the cost of two 8x10's, you could be just as loud, or louder than 2 8x10's, for the same or less weight, as one 8x10.

 

 

www.ethertonswitch.com

 

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