Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

Ouch, that Hertz...


Bass_god_offspring

Recommended Posts

'Scuse the pun ;)

 

for all of those who like to read topics quickly:

 

1.) Will a carvin 410 cab that only handles down to 60Hz work well to replace a Behringer 115 cab that handles down to 38Hz when my Carvin R1000 amp has the "50Hz" Freq. Boosted to about +7? ( I currently have one Carvin 410 used with the 115, but am wondering if i should use two 410's instead)

 

2.) Why do you think that the Ampeg 810 is so popular among rock bassist? It's Heavy, very large, and, oh, did i mention heavy? So what (in your opinion) makes this cab soo attractive? Why i ask? Becuase i recently played a show where every single one of the other bands (three others) had bassist that used the same cab (literally, they all shared for some reason), yet they all used different gear and different heads. Am i that picky about my sound, or is Ampeg gear just that good?

 

3.) I'm trying to decide to buy either a Mac (Ibook G4) or a Sony Laptop for about 1500.00. Which do you think would be a better choice for simple music recording and Overall performance (An external two channel USB interface would be used in both cases).

 

Thanks, and i hope that was direct and to the point!

 

 

I hope everyone's having a great weekend!

 

:wave:

-BGO

 

5 words you should live by...

 

Music is its own reward

 

---------------

My Band: www.Myspace.com/audreyisanarcissist

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 22
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Let me answer number 3.

 

It completely depends on the software you want to use, but I would avoid the iBook at this juncture, and this is coming from a diehard Mac user. At a grand and a half, you are better served by a PC laptop unless 1)You already have a ton of Mac software or 2)You're a glutton for punishment.

 

Get the Sony, but let me know the model you're looking at, and I'll tell you if there are chipset problems with audio hardware, etc.

"For instance" is not proof.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

haha, well, i am trying to figure out if two 410's will handle 50 hz as well as a 410 and 115.

 

2. who gave it a rep. i wonder?

-BGO

 

5 words you should live by...

 

Music is its own reward

 

---------------

My Band: www.Myspace.com/audreyisanarcissist

Link to comment
Share on other sites

my 2 cents:

 

1. Theoretically, it depends on how steep the carvin cab rolls off as well as on the sensitivity of both cabs. The carvin, though rated to roll off at 60hz, may still be more sensitive than the behringer at frequencies in that range. Different manufacturers use different systems for rating stuff. In reality, if you have both cabs, you should be able to test both out and see which sounds better. Your low e string is somewhere around 41hz.

 

2. I believe that it is the look. One does not need an 810 for big sound. Two 410s can do the same job. Every time a rock band plays conan o brien, the bass player is *always* using an ampeg 810. People want to portray a certain look for cameras as well as for crowds.

 

3. One of the top two music schools in the country is located down the block from my college. Every intereaction that i've had with students from that school (the berklee school of music) has involved an apple in some way shape or form. I don't know exactly what the benefit is, but i figure that all those people can't be wrong when it comes to convenience and ease of use.

 

jason

2cor5:21

Soli Deo Gloria

 

"it's the beauty of a community. it takes a village to raise a[n] [LLroomtempJ]." -robb

 

My YouTube Channel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. I don't think this problem should be answered by the specs that the manufacturers give their cabs as they are widely recognized as...emm.....inadequate.

Have you considered simply upgrading to one cab to handle everything. I've heard a lot of positive comments regarding cabs such as the bergantino ht322 or nv line, accugroove products, and schroeder cabs. I think one of these cabs could probably replace the cabs you're looking at in terms of low end and quite possibly volume as well.

 

2 The ampeg 810 has been around for decades and its known as a reliable cab that is widely recognized as the standard bearer for many rental companies. You're probably seeing the 810 in so many venues and on so many tv shwos because the local rental company stocks them and the players and soundmen are familiar with them as a reliable decent sounding cab.

 

3. Can't help you there!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BGO...I think Carvin publishes the Thiele-Small parameters on their drivers. Download WinISD (a speaker cab design program...Google for it), measure the internal dimensions of both cabs, and plug the numbers in and see what the graphs look like. This will answer your question on paper...use your ears to get the real answer.

 

I used to use two Carvin RL-410T's run by an SWR SM-900 amp...with the lows boosted (I used to use a quite scooped tone in a metal band) that rig would shake the walls. That said, it's really hard to say from afar. I doubt the Behringer cab truly hits it's -10db point at 38 Hz. If it does, the sensitivity of the whole package at that point is probably so low that the 38Hz signal isn't very loud. Can you tell if the 410 is substantially louder than the 115 cab? (It probably is.) Solo each cab with them both sitting on the floor and compare.

 

In general, don't take any of the specs most of the cab mfg's publish too seriously.

 

HTH,

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've thought about replacing my cabs with one, but then the issue of price comes up.

 

sadly, i don't have 2000 bucks to spend on cabs, even if it is worth it.

 

Also, the looks of it as well. Sad to say, but as we all know, the looks of your rig are important in some aspects. for me it is the ability to paint the grills and give myself a bigger visual presence on stage (A three person band doesn't really fill up much space on a medium sized stage).

 

oh well. I like Carvin gear, it's solid, and is really versital (I have no idea how i would transfer the massive amounts of my pre, mid, and post EQ settings onto any other head, haha).

-BGO

 

5 words you should live by...

 

Music is its own reward

 

---------------

My Band: www.Myspace.com/audreyisanarcissist

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Go with the iBook G4 laptop. It comes with Garageband, which is fantastic for recording and it's a fantastic machine - with kick-arse battery life (I'm talking 5-6 real life battery hours here). And Garage band doesn't just do simple recording either. Seriously, check it out very closely before you make a decision. You won't regret it ;)

 

...and I'm not just a Mac freak either, Actually - I'm on my Mac mini now (which, too is great for recording), but most of the machines I use are Windows boxes. I'm a Microsoft IT Academy Program Administrator, and an MCSE instructor, so I know my Windows stuff. I know a bit about the Mac OS X platform too, and when I use my Mac - I know it just works so damn well ;)

 

(Actually, if it was within your budget, the new Macbook pro is a seriously good machine, but if it's not, the iBook is still excellent, and at a great price point.)

 

:thu:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'll add my two bits from my experience.. might save you some $$, too... My speaker rig is completely self-designed and built.. 4-10's and an 18 for about $700... In your case, I would keep the Carvin 410 for the top, let it run full range. For the bottom end, you could do what I done. Pull up that WinISD program and design an optimum cab for the Dayton 18" pro driver (Parts Express). 3dB down on this is right around 29 Hz! (I have found using a 5-string I have to place a 30Hz high-pass filter in the effects loop... its almost too much..) The thing that really makes it work is that I put one of those Eminence 250Hz low-pass x-overs in that 18 cab.

Run the whole thing bridge mode, or parallel outputs if your amp is configured that way.

 

I an VERY happy with my rig, and other bassists who played through it were equally impressed...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. use your ears. i would be highly skeptical of any spec published by behringer. you may also find that while it, on paper, has a certain frequency response, both are voiced to achieve a certain sound and one may be better suited to your needs than the other.

 

my bigger question, though, is why are you boosting 50Hz at +7db? have you learned nothing about EQ?

 

2. besides historical inertia, it could be that an ampeg 810 is the sound people are going for. maybe tone really is that important.

 

3. try typing on both and see what you think of the keyboard. do some research into what recording software you want and how you're going to get the signals you need into the computer.

 

robb.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sometimes I wonder if you're just doing this to taunt me!

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

1.) Will a carvin 410 cab that only handles down to 60Hz work well to replace a Behringer 115 cab that handles down to 38Hz when my Carvin R1000 amp has the "50Hz" Freq. Boosted to about +7? ( I currently have one Carvin 410 used with the 115, but am wondering if i should use two 410's instead)

Stop thinking about the hz ratings and just listen to the cabs. If more than a handful of companies actually quoted real specs then the specs might be useful, but as few do then they're not. And least of all Behringer, professional design thieves, r&d avoiders, and marketing miracle workers.

 

And why are you boosting 50Hz by 7dB? If I did that with my rig the whole room would be swamped by huge wallowing lows, which rarely sounds good.

 

All 4x10"s are not created equal.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

2.) Why do you think that the Ampeg 810 is so popular among rock bassist? It's Heavy, very large, and, oh, did i mention heavy? So what (in your opinion) makes this cab soo attractive? Why i ask? Becuase i recently played a show where every single one of the other bands (three others) had bassist that used the same cab (literally, they all shared for some reason), yet they all used different gear and different heads. Am i that picky about my sound, or is Ampeg gear just that good?

It's very loud, it produces very little sub-bass, it has lots of midrange punch, it's easy to mic, and everyone knows how to handle one. And it tilts and rolls so it's easier to move than a smaller cab if you don't have to handle stairs.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

haha, well, i am trying to figure out if two 410's will handle 50 hz as well as a 410 and 115.

Suck it and see. If you really want to know, run a sine wave from your computer through your rig and see when it starts getting much quieter.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

2. who gave it a rep. i wonder?

It was one of the first really loud bass cabs. And unlike the Acoustic 360 it's still relevant today because it's very good at fitting in the mix and not messing up the FOH.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

Also, the looks of it as well. Sad to say, but as we all know, the looks of your rig are important in some aspects. for me it is the ability to paint the grills and give myself a bigger visual presence on stage (A three person band doesn't really fill up much space on a medium sized stage).

Blah. This IS Spinal Tap. "Yeah, stage presence, it's all about how big your amp is..."

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

oh well. I like Carvin gear, it's solid, and is really versital

It is solid value.

 

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

(I have no idea how i would transfer the massive amounts of my pre, mid, and post EQ settings onto any other head, haha).

Me neither. I bet you'd sound a lot better if you couldn't do massive amounts of tweaking. I'd really like to hear an accurate live recording of your band.

 

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Bass_god_offspring:

2.) Why do you think that the Ampeg 810 is so popular among rock bassist? It's Heavy, very large, and, oh, did i mention heavy? So what (in your opinion) makes this cab soo attractive? Why i ask? Becuase i recently played a show where every single one of the other bands (three others) had bassist that used the same cab (literally, they all shared for some reason), yet they all used different gear and different heads. Am i that picky about my sound, or is Ampeg gear just that good?

I've tried the 8x10 and yes it is that good. There are reasons that Ampeg is #1 among rock bass players: Sound, Quality, and Reliability.

 

I have an Ampeg 4x10HEN and absolutely love it! I'm going to eventually add an Ampeg 4x10HLF.

Tenstrum

 

"Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face."

Harry Dresden, Storm Front

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. I have no idea. You couldn't pay me to lug that behemoth around (well...that depends on how much you are going to pay me). I see lots of bands loading in for shows trying to manhandle that thing down or up a flight of stairs while I walk right by with my Low B-2 in one hand

 

3. Get the Mac. I am a converted windows user and have never looked back. Macs are stable, reliable, and have plenty of music-oriented software available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

QUOTE]It's very loud, it produces very little sub-bass, it has lots of midrange punch, it's easy to mic, and everyone knows how to handle one. And it tilts and rolls so it's easier to move than a smaller cab if you don't have to handle stairs.[/qb]

 

does that mean it can't pull off dub bass? Would it be good for punk/gothic/meatl music? I like the way they look and kind off want to get one.

I knew a girl that was into biamping,I sure do miss

her.-ButcherNburn

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. It's been said enough times around here by people that really know, so I trust when they say the specs are worthless. I'm sure they will also agree that the low-end frequency response of a cab probably has more to do with tuning/porting/etc. than the size of the driver(s). Simply put, it's possible for a 4x10 to go lower than a 1x15. That's why people have been suggesting that software thingie.

 

As far as "loudness", or SPL, some little online models I've seen have pretty much said there are (at least) two ways to achieve higher SPL: more power and/or more drivers. You're not considering a new head, so you're not interested in more power. But, does a 4x10 push more air than a 1x15? (BTW, this is how some are getting away with a 1x12 or 1x10; big big head.)

 

Doesn't the Carvin have a built-in crossover? (Biamping.) Can't you send all the lows to the 1x15, for example, and everything else to the 4x10? At least, that's how they used to market stuff a decade or two ago. Does it help? (I don't know.) I guess the idea is to use half your power on the lows and the other half on the highs, but it sounds like you'd rather have 99% of your power to the lows, so that doesn't seem to help.

 

Then there's something I seem to remember about it taking more juice to make lower freq's louder. So, if you boost 50Hz, cut everything else, and all your power goes towards the low stuff, it's possible your overall SPL may actually be less than with more moderate EQ-ing? (I'm out on a limb here ... help me, someone.)

 

Yes, Alex, I am taunting you. Muhahahaha!!! :evil::D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by Gospel7theZealot:

3. One of the top two music schools in the country is located down the block from my college. Every intereaction that i've had with students from that school (the berklee school of music) has involved an apple in some way shape or form. I don't know exactly what the benefit is, but i figure that all those people can't be wrong when it comes to convenience and ease of use.

 

jason

One reason is the schools get a discount. Apple/Mac has been doing this for years. Sell equipment to schools cheap, students use, students 'buy what they know' when they leave. But you could be right too, there may be some other technical issue why they use Macs.

 

IMNSHO, best thing about Macs is good component compatibility. PC's are horrendus for that as there are soo many different manufacturers, its hard to ensure compatability with everything.

That said I use a PC and later this year going to upgrade to a SLI rig.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3. You can use either Mac or PC for your DAW. The industry standard software, ProTools, runs on either. Even the popular freeware Audacity runs on both.

 

Yes, Apple has a discount for educational sales of their products. In my music technology class, I'm using an iMac G4 with Digital Performer and Finale softwares. (We're using an Alesis QS7 controller, FWIW.)

 

At home I use my PowerBook G4 and GarageBand. I chose GB because it came with the computer, although I wouldn't mind trying Logic or even ProTools when budget allows. I have an old Casio for MIDI input, but it doesn't have everything, like a pitch bend wheel for example.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...