Home recording

[ATM]

So, I purchased a Mac Mini. I've been playing around with GarageBand. Good stuff so far. Ordered a couple of mics from MF. When my next paycheck comes in from the resort, I'm seriously considering ordering the PreSonus Inspire 1394 that you see advertised above occasionally.

 

Any input? I haven't found much about it on The Project Studio forum.

 

Background: Acoustic Guitar and Acoustic Bass Guitar. Got the bass amplified to be heard. We like the live sound, and in fact will be recording on the porch, great acoustics.

 

ATM

[Luke73]

Hey

 

I have a Mac mini too Very cool, and I love using Garage Band with it.

 

I have a M-Audio USB Mobile pre-amp I use as an input for recording my bass. Works very nicely

 

[JBFLA]

Hey ATM -

 

I have a Northwestern Bell Tape Answering device hooked up to the phone line I never use.

 

Sonically - it leaves a lot to be desired, but I found its' natural compression makes the salespersons' voice that much more palatable when I come home from work to erase the messages. Also a great tool to leave messages for myself so that I don't forget to...

 

 

uhhh...

 

 

dang!

[ATM]

HA!

 

ATM

[Eric VB]

Sounds nice, ATM!

 

What mics did you order? How are you planning on setting them up?

 

I've been looking at the Inspire, too, to upgrade from just using the built-in sound in port of my PowerBook G4. There's just too many models to choose from right now, with more being introduced daily it seems.

 

How's your monitors? Something else I desperately need to upgrade. Really hard to mix without something good.

[ATM]

I ordered two of the On-Stage Stands MS7510 Mic Pro Pak s. Reviews led me to see that they're a good deal. Better mics can be got later.

 

Reading up a lot on the Inspire. Heck of a deal, considering the software it comes with. With the pricing and ability to daisy chain, looks like they're marketing it so everybody in a band should have one.

 

Going through my home theater for monitors. Best I've got.

 

I'm starting off slow and inexpensive. Trying to get decent stuff at a decent price without going down the wrong road. Of course, we're don't have a lot of music to put down yet, but this is helping to push us forward.

 

When I get this put together and some time under the belt, I'll see about posting some examples.

 

ATM

[Mike Bear]

I've been using mac's for years. We had an Apple IIe. I just got a new G5 dual. It's Satanic. I had a lot of fun with Garage band. I thought it couldn't do much, but after exploring it more, it can do quite a bit. I have a very simple 2 chanel Tascam interface. I have a few direct devices and one tube pre. The tube is nice on a lot of the guitar stuff.

[wraub]

I recently acquired a new pc with the intent of recording with it.

Looking to improve on my limited track editing, eq and mix options.

 

Tracktion 2 looks like a leader for me at the moment, along with Reason.

Probably get a nice firewire interface/input device at that point too.

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[getz out]

My main setup is a PC running XP Professional (laptop with 1.1gHz Celeron with 768mb RAM or a desktop 3gHz P4 with 2gb RAM). I use Cubase SX 3. I like Cubase a bunch, and it is not prohibitively expensive with a student/clergy discount.

 

My interface is a MOTU 828mkII. It's firewire with two built in preamps, 8 analog ins, and 8 digital ins. So, I get 18 simultaneous inputs. Fun.

 

The one thing that I lack is ProTools. I have received several ProTools sessions which are a pain to work without without ProTools. Since ProTools likes digidesign hardware, I'm currently scouting a used Mbox on ebay. While I am not a huge ProTools fan, there is something to be said about its ubiquity.

 

PS - I spent a bunch on mics when I started getting into this. My two favorites are the Sennheiser MD421 (great on guitar and toms) and the Electrovoice PL20 (same as RE20) (great on bass and kick and spoken word voice).

[Mike Bear]

I heard the M-Box has many latency issues. I was going to buy one. I stuck with my Tascam interface and got Cubase SX3. I'll be saving for the Digidesign 002. But I want a new amp first.

[ArwinH]

I'd like to get into home recording, I'm just confused by everything , other than that I guess there are no issues.

I'm wondering, ware products like the Mbox or the presonus firepod designed so taht they can be used for most/all of your home recording needs, or are they just a piece of a much bigger puzzle. I guesss my question is, if I were to pick up a presonus firepod or an mbox what else would I need to get to get some recording (bass, guitars, acoustic drums, vocals) done considering I already have a reasonably powerful computer with good features?

Well, adding to this confusion I just checked out my cousins digitech jamman pedal on which he recorded several very long songs featuring guitar and vocal tracks, he then explained to me that you can upgrade the soundcard on the pedal and even plug in an external mixer to track acoustic drums and other instruments. If I were to pick up a looper anyway, would the features of the pedal suffice?

[g.]

Then get a standalone digital recording system like one of the Roland VS series (or whichever you think you'd prefer). The early version was good enough for Victor Wooten to do an album on. A good case can be made for something this portable that has this type of interface. Very immediate, familar to a great extent, no worrying about idealizing your computer environment after buying all the right components, and then doing it again because that tech always seems to be shifting beneath one's feet - ; }

 

But you can always later tie the two together if you want to drop down into the microcosm further than the VS would seem to easily take you. Though it's fully capable of it even without a computer, its beauty is perhaps that its immediacy and no-fuss consistency keeps you up in the macrocosm more, where you spend time getting good takes instead of microediting bad ones ; } ...Also it'll use plugins, BTW, there's plenty of expandibility in Roland's little wonder.

[ATM]

In my Inspire research, I read the manual and what it had to say about latency. "You can mix the playback from your software (recorded material) with your live input so you can hear both simultaneously with zero latency.

 

Zero Latency Monitoring is very useful while recording in multi-track software. It allows you to listen to both what you have already recorded and what you are currently recording (called overdubbing or multitracking), without having to worry about the two recordings not lining up due to the delay resulting from the processing time it takes to get audio in and out of the computer. It can also be used to audition something to be overdubbed, which can be a valuable writing/production tool."

 

The Firepod would definitely be the next step up from the Inspire. The Inspire comes with Cubase LE, among other software and can be used with existing software such as GarageBand.

 

I'm still doing research.

 

ATM

[getz out]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Then get a standalone digital recording system like one of the Roland VS series (or whichever you think you'd prefer).

My limited experience with the VS1680 was positive. However, in my opinion, an Mbox with ProTools on an optimized laptop blows it out of the water. The flexibility is fantastic. Again, just because you can edit the hell out of a segment doesn't mean you have too.

 

Optimizing a laptop by setting up a dual-boot system is easier than it sounds.

 

Originally posted by greenboy:

The early version was good enough for Victor Wooten to do an album on.

Heck, a four-string Fender Precision was good enough for...

[Gruuve]

I'd have to agree with GB here...I'm a big fan of the stand-alone DAW's. I use a Zoom MRS-1608CD right now, which is surprisingly good, especially considering it's price. However, I have been eye-balling the new Korg D3200...32-tracks for $1500, and lots of other very useful features...that's a deal in my book.

 

Just FYI...I occasionally use Kristal Audio for a few things. It's 16-track recording software that's a freebie...and it seems to be pretty decent (very basic, however).

 

Dave

[g.]

Stand-alones have some big advantages for the bux: control interface, optimized design of audio paths to and from ADC/DAC for better s/n (computers can be a real noisy environment)...

 

Basically the best of them are single-purpose computers built for only that set of tasks, ready to go. The fact that you may be able to use standard [computer] plug-ins and monitors with them without getting sidetracked on the many software/OS interaction issues and hardware conflicts and choices keeps them very competitive in terms of price.

 

That advantage is matched with the total-package portability and the workflow style, which encourages tracking and editing styles that can help keep one focused on the music and ideas more - though they can certainly do a lot of fancy digital editing if you are not so hot at tracking or like to go over waveforms with a fine toothed comb.

 

I myself could go either way, but I think for many people the DAW at this level may be a better tool for productivity in the same way that Mac-based packages were in the past compared to PC ones. Mac studios had less choices in computer hardware, but as a result they didn't have to fiddle around much with OS and hardware to make music.

[Gruuve]

Again, I couldn't agree more with GB. I bought the Zoom rather than the similar class Fostex or Yamaha because the user-interface was very straight-forward and intuitive, and all the tooling was easy to work with (I pulled the manuals and read them before buying). Recording equipment is a tool to be used to get the music out of your head and into a form someone else can actually hear, so I wanted the tool that would give me the most direct path to that. No fussing with hardware/software issues (or viruses and spyware) nor no fumbling with tape reels, patchbays, external effects processors, cabling, etc. I turn it on, push a few buttons, and record. That was what I wanted.

 

Dave

[ArwinH]

Assuming I had a drum kit, guitar and bass amps and all the needed instruments, what would be the best ( most user friendly, least expensive) path to get into some home recording to aly down song ideas.

So far I'm entertaining the idea of buying that digitech jamman looper and just using its recording features with an external mixer, though I'd be using it on a pedalboard as well. Standalone systems, and computer systems also sound appealing, but I'm not sure really what they entail in terms of what other pieces I'd need to buy.

I've been reading through this guide http://www.recordingreview.com/beginner_guides/gear_half_assed.php

...and trying to understand all thats needed for a computer based recording system to work well.

This has been catching my attention as well...

http://www.presonus.com/images/firepoddiagram-big.jpg

I understand that each system would have its various advantages and disadvantages, but to be honest I'm just looking to nail down some demos for ideas that I have so that I could kind of shop them around as neccesary, I know that the jamman has good sound quality and my cousin showed me some stuff he had recorded into his, which led me down that path. Assuming I could lay down tracks individually that seems like a fine option to me, and it comes with a free looper

well, I guess I'm just trying to climb out of my hole of utter confusion.....thanks for the helping hand guys,

Arwin

[Gruuve]

Well, MF has the Fostex 8-tracker w/ effects built-in for $249 right now. I *think* will only record two tracks simultaneously...but that's still workable. If all you want to do is record demo's that you do yourself, this would probably be sufficient.

 

Also, you might want to check out Kristal Audio, which is freebie 16-track recording software. That plus a simple $100 audio-to-USB interface, and you might be all set.

 

Here's a rough draft I just finished (or I think I'm finished). This is my own concept of an arrangment (sans guitar) for one of the songs we do in church, "Sing to the King". It has a great chord progression and melody, but in both of the arrangements we've previously done, I've always felt like there was a monster groove underneath that was just waiting to be unleashed. I've tried to unleash it. The bass was recorded direct, on the vocal I used a MXL-990 (budget condenser), and for the acoustic drums I used an AKG D112 on the kick and the same MXL-990 as a single overhead. (I'm thoroughly surprised by how good the drums sound with this simple setup!) The piano is just a midi sequence, and all this was recorded on the Zoom MRS-1608.

 

Sing To The King - Dave\'s Arrangement

 

Dave

[getz out]

Arwin,

 

The Firepod looks like a good product. I have no personal experience with it. However, it doesn't seem to have an ADAT digital in or out. It is a nice option. Also, make sure you like the preamps included.

[Mike Bear]

I've done both computer based, tape based, and stand alone recording devices like the Rolands. I'll say one advantage to the stand alone is, no latency issues that I've experienced. If you get the M-Box it is the hardware interface that comes with the software to record. Though I have heard that product has some serious latency issues. I'm guessing the Firepod is a stand alone piece of hardware and you'd have to puchase a stand alone piece of software to go with it. Remember, if you want to use Pro Tools, you'll have to puchrase Pro Tools hardware. i.e. M-Box, or Digi 002 etc.

[owens hound]

I've been getting into recording for a while now, I used to use a Fostex 4 track which served it's purpose for quite a while. Last year I was looking into stand-alone multi-track recorders and computers and ended up going with a computer that I use only for recording. I run from my bass or guitar through a Roland effects unit, into my Bass Pod, through my Nemesis 115 into my PA and from the PA I go into the computer and record with Acid Pro 4. I tried Acid Pro 5 but found serious latency issues that were not there with Acid Pro 4. I realize that I don't need to go through so many pieces of equipment to record but it makes it easy for me to change instruments quickly and keep the recording/creative vibe going.

With the PA, I can use all 6 inputs at once if I want but usually have a beat from Acid Pro in the background and play guitar or bass and/or sing and play harmonica. The final products sound ok, but I guess that it depends on what you are trying to get out of the recording. I'm going for mostly a demo or a scratch pad to get the ideas out of my head.

The PreSonus Inspire 1394 looks really interesting. I checked out the add when I first noticed it. I'm very interested to hear how well it works if anyone gets one.

[cloclo]

i've used some protools systems and do not like the digital conversion quality they offer. their convertors aren't like they ought to be.

 

i don't like stand-alone DAWs. too many buttons and menu's on little screens. at least monitors are able to give you a complete overview of your tracks.

[g.]

One would note again that some of the stand-alone DAWs connect right up to a monitor and can take full advantage of this. Not to mention that they have a control surface full of knobs and sliders included in the cost. Hands-on (and not just mousin') right out of the gate.

[Gruuve]

That's correct...the higher-end Rolands let you plug up a monitor and a mouse. The high-end Korg's have fairly large touch-screens built-in. IIRC, the high-end Akai's let you plug a monitor up, but I might be wrong about those...

 

Dave

[tommasguy]

Get an interface which is Firewire and not USB or you'll have monitoring probs (delay with USB). Firepod looks lush.

[Edendude]

I'm still happily stuck in the analog realm, for tracking...

 

http://www.nova4x4.com/uploads/012906/oldschoolbaby.jpg

 

I track on my TSR-8 analog deck, mix down to my Tascam DAT deck to create a digital backup as I mix, and then I master the recordings in Sound Forge, on my PC.

 

But one of my best buddies is a pro engineer for a band with a long-running major label contract. He just helped the lead singer in my band set up a DAW recording platform in her home studio. He swears by the value of the PreSonus gear for home recording studios.

[cloclo]

mmmmmmmmmm tape. even with normal cheepo 2-track cassette machines (portastudio tascam) you can do nice stuff.

 

this is a live recording with 2 mics (one of which is a stereo mike going into a mono line input (the horror! )) onto 2 tracks.

 

crunchy tape saturation

[Edendude]

Yes, analog tape compression is a fun phenomenon to play around with. You can hit my 1/2 inch 8 track ridiculously hard, and the signal still doesn't break up. And bass tracks sound really huge on it, of course.

 

Analog is definitely a pain in the ass, when it comes to convenience, but you can get some really fat sounding recordings with it, if you have the patience to track with it.

 

I never could get used to cassette analog decks, just because the s/n ratio is so low, and the tape speed is so slow. But eight tracks spread over a 1/2 inch, and a 15 ips tape speed, works pretty nicely.

 

I think of my TSR-8 like I might an old Triumph Bonneville motorcycle, or a DC3 twin prop airplane...

 

Old school, but very easy to love.