Airbags -a great safety device?

[Wewus432]

Here's my take on that. Any "safety device" that kills one person is NOT a safety device. I think that it is ridiculous that we play statistics with peoples lives. People will say look at how many lives we've saved. I don't care. Since the early eighties when air bags were first put into cars 191 people have been killed. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration credits the devices for saving 7,224 lives since they were introduced. I doubt those figures but it doesn't matter to me how many they claimed to have saved, 191 people have been KILLED by a so called safety device. That is unconscionable. What if one of the children killed was a future Motzart or Einstein. And of course kids can't even sit in the front seat of a car now. Why? I think the insurance industry had a lot to do with instituting a very flawed safety device. Have you ever been in a car when the airbag went off? I have. 3 years ago, the day after Thanksgiving I was driving down the road and a guy in a club van pulls out from a sideroad and T-bones me on the left front side. The air bag EXPLODES in my face which was just as frightening as the wreck itself. Then I was totally blinded by the airbag and had to bring my car to a stop without being able to see. If there had been any other cars near me I'm sure there would have been multiple collisions. I'm sure there have been accidents CAUSED by airbags. That's another great fallacy of an airbag, that once you're in a collision you don't need to see anymore. BULLSHIT! My final beef is the cost of the damn things. To replace an airbag in a car cost from $2000 to $3000.00. This whole situation is another result of letting insurance companies run our lives. They WILL play statistics with peoples lives. Let me restate my main point. ANY SAFETY DEVICE THAT KILLS IS [b]NOT[/b] A SAFETY DEVICE. Airbags should be redesigned or removed from cars.

[BP3]

The worst yet it - AirBagPipes :eek: :rolleyes: :bor: :bor:

[Brakka]

There's no "T" in Mozart, Einstein. Airbags have saved many lives. It is tragic that people have died in airbag mishaps, but I'd still call the airbag a safety device. They aren't going to be discontinued anytime soon. I'm sure the design will be improved to reduce accidental injuries or fatalities. Buy an older car if you don't like them. I'm sure you'll disagree with my disagreeing with you. I'm not an expert on airbags any more than you are. well, i guess you [i]are[/i] an airbag. :eek:

[Wewus432]

Hey Brakka: Although Mozart is more widely used, Motzart is also in use and the correct pronunciation of the name includes that slight T sound in the midddle. I prefer to use the spelling with the T because it reminds me to pronounce the name correctly. Yes I do disagree with you about airbags. That was the whole point of this post, to start a debate on the subject. I disagee with the logic of killing some people to save other people. What if the person killed was your wife or child? Would you resign yourself to the fact that some stranger some where was possibly being saved? I think not. I don't have to be an expert to see that innocent people have been KILLED! I don't appreciate you including an insult on the end of your post. That was very trollish.

[Tedster]

[img]http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1000729/Amadeus-photo_03.jpg[/img] "Either way, Mozart is dead. I killed him, you know"... I remember pulling a young boy (about 5) out of a wrecked car who had an airbag go off in his face. He lived, but he was quite banged up. Don't put kids in the front seat.

[Sp3nc3r]

My girlfriend's brother and his friend were saved major injury by airbags recently (3 weeks or so) when some punk twit in a "fast & furious" styled Honda Prelude slammed into them at a high rate of speed. They were tender, but otherwise unharmed. They're not perfect, but airbags DO save lives... Cheers! Spencer

[Hippie]

Here's a funny story about an airbag that saved a life, not in the traditional way. My brother was driving his Cadillac Eldorado on Harsens Island, way too fucked up and missed a turn in the road putting the car into a swamp about 10 feet deep. He crawled out intact although with a few leeches attached to him. A cop was waiting for him on the shore as beer cans were floating to the surface. The cop said, 'son, if I see one beer can in that car when it gets raised to the surface, you, my friend, are going to jail'. The tow truck comes and pulls the car out of the water, just as the cop pokes his head inside looking for booze (with all the wet electronics in the car going crazy) kaboom! the airbag goes off and the cop has to go to the hospital to be treated for face 'issues'. :D Oh man, what a hoot! Needless to say, no arrests were made.

[Wewus432]

originally posted by Spencer Crewe: [quote] [b]They're not perfect, but airbags DO save lives...[/b] [/quote]I'm not disputing that. I just don't understand why we have a [b]safety device[/b] with an acceptable casualty rate. Safety devices are supposed to SAVE LIVES aren't they? You shouldn't treat human beings lives as statistics. That's what the insurance industry does, and now everyone just goes along with it. Oh well kill a few, save a few. Every human being is unique, are they not? It is unforgiveable to me to kill x amount of people to save y amount of people. Justify [b]THAT[/b] to me!

[Tedster]

[quote]Originally posted by Hippie: [b]Here's a funny story about an airbag that saved a life, not in the traditional way. My brother was driving his Cadillac Eldorado on Harsens Island, way too fucked up and missed a turn in the road putting the car into a swamp about 10 feet deep. He crawled out intact although with a few leeches attached to him. A cop was waiting for him on the shore as beer cans were floating to the surface. The cop said, 'son, if I see one beer can in that car when it gets raised to the surface, you, my friend, are going to jail'. The tow truck comes and pulls the car out of the water, just as the cop pokes his head inside looking for booze (with all the wet electronics in the car going crazy) kaboom! the airbag goes off and the cop has to go to the hospital to be treated for face 'issues'. :D Oh man, what a hoot! Needless to say, no arrests were made.[/b][/quote]That's a great one. Harsen's Island, huh? Played a few gigs at Brown's Landing on Harsen's Island back in the day...

[Brakka]

Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]Hey Brakka: Although Mozart is more widely used, Motzart is also in use and the correct pronunciation of the name includes that slight T sound in the midddle. I prefer to use the spelling with the T because it reminds me to pronounce the name correctly. [/b] Come on! Will someone else comment on this? That is just stupid. Mo[b]t[/b]zart is not accepted by anyone. [b]I disagee with the logic of killing some people to save other people. [/b] Airbag mishaps are [i]accidents[/i]. No one designed the airbag to kill people. You're making it sound like people are being murdered or there is some depraved indifference going on. Airbags are designed to save lives, and they do. It is tragic that we had to learn the way we did that they don't work if a child is in the front seat. Other accidental injuries or deaths are just as tragic. I'm sure anyone whose life was saved would be just as upset by the death of anyone, for any reason. [b]I don't have to be an expert to see that innocent people have been KILLED![/b] You keep saying "KILLED", see, but really what you mean is "...people have DIED." [b]I don't appreciate you including an insult on the end of your post. That was very trollish.[/b] It was a joke. I've been lurking around here long enough to know that you say the same type of thing to other people. An "airbag" is a person who talks a lot, and you do. - Brakka

[sign]

[quote]Originally posted by Brakka: [b]An "airbag" is a person who talks a lot, and you do. - Brakka[/b][/quote]Welcome, have a seat, do as if you are home! :D :D :D

[Wewus432]

originally posted by Brakka: [quote] [b]Come on! Will someone else comment on this? That is just stupid. Motzart is not accepted by anyone.[/b] [/quote]I just did a search on Google for Motzart and got 4,680 hits. I've spelled it and pronounced it like that all my life and so have a lot of other educated people. Another thing I don't understand about airbags is the government's refusal to put a switch on the things, so if you wanted to you could disable it. Why should the government or the insurance companies decide who can sit in the front seat of your car. I don't understand your distinction between killed and died. People have been killed by air bags. People died from air bag injuries. It says the same thing to me. If you're making a joke you should use the smiley face in the instant graemlins. Yeah I talk a lot, that doesn't give you the right to insult me, especially since you have 3 post.

[monster]

I'd like the option of turning it off. I always visualize the damn thing going off while I'm sipping coffee.

[Bucktunes]

The biggest problem I have with mandatory airbags is the fact that they are [i]passive[/i] safety devices. They do nothing to prevent a crash. It's based on the premise that the average driver is either too unskilled or inconsiderate to avoid a crash, so the best we can do is to protect you from the inevitable by surrounding you with a cushion. In fact, I've heard that many drivers have become [i]more[/i] aggresive and inconsiderate when they have airbags. Apparently, they're more willing to have a wreck because they know they'll be protected! :mad: I agree they're flawed, and should have been improved before they were mandated. IMO, a true safety feature is something that can prevent a crash from happening. Anti-lock brakes, traction control, infra-red vision or radar, etc. All these devices are way more effective safety devices because they can help [i]prevent[/i] a wreck. The reason there hasn't been any hurry to mandate them is because the insurance companies can't use "feel good" statistics with them. It's impossible to prove how many wrecks did [i]not[/i] happen because of active safety features. So instead we get annoying, half-baked safety laws like "left turn on green arrow only" laws. Again, based on the premise that the average driver can't make a wise decision about when it's safe to make a turn. Left to their own discretion, too many people will turn directly in front of a motorcyclist or a speeding truck, killing either themselves or someone else. Making idiot-proof laws saves lives, but it's kind of a roundabout way of doing it. IMO, the most important "safety feature" is the one sitting behind the wheel. No safety features or idiot-proof laws will make the roads safer until we stop giving driver's licenses to [i]idiots[/i]! In most states it's [i]way[/i] too easy to get a driver's license, and you don't even have to demonstrate any actual driving skill or courtesy. Raising the standards for drivers would be the long-term solution, but I suppose it hasn't caught on because there are too many idiots with a lot of money to spend on expensive cars. God forbid we should cripple our economy by forcing people to become decent drivers! :rolleyes: Peace all, Steve

[sign]

[quote]Originally posted by Bucktunes: [b]IMO, the most important "safety feature" is the one sitting behind the wheel. No safety features or idiot-proof laws will make the roads safer until we stop giving driver's licenses to [i]idiots[/i]! In most states it's [i]way[/i] too easy to get a driver's license, and you don't even have to demonstrate any actual driving skill or courtesy. Raising the standards for drivers would be the long-term solution, but I suppose it hasn't caught on because there are too many idiots with a lot of money to spend on expensive cars. God forbid we should cripple our economy by forcing people to become decent drivers! :rolleyes: Peace all, Steve[/b][/quote]Agreed! we have a "show" on TV that shows people who are convinced they are safe drivers, but in fact are plain idiots. A guy is driving 250km/hr on the highway in his BMW. He says "I can drive fast because I have better brakes than average cars have". He is invited to do a test on a slippery road by the program makers, and the idiot can not keep his car on this road at 35 km/hr when doing a panic stop. Peace, Han

[Brakka]

Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]I just did a search on Google for Motzart and got 4,680 hits. I've spelled it and pronounced it like that all my life and so have a lot of other educated people.[/b] I just did a search on Google for Mozart and got 1,770,000 hits in 0.07 seconds. Your search took 0.34 seconds. The first thing it says when you search for "Mo[b]t[/b]zart is "did you mean mozart?" The first site listed is some teenager's Hanson fansite, and he misspelled it. Most of the other sites did too, but some put "motzart" on their title page along with "Mozart" to get people who don't know how to spell to their site. "Mo[b]t[/b]zart" is so wrong, in fact, that SpellCheck doesn't even correct it as "Mozart." it suggests [i]notary, nota, motivate, notation, start, mother, [/i]and[i] important.[/i] This airbag discussion should not continue until you admit that you spelled it wrong. :D

[Wewus432]

Shut up you dumb beotch, there IS more than one way to spell a word or a name. MOTZART and MOZART are the same person. You know I was trying to start a real debate on a real subject and all I got was YOU. What do you know about anything? Go ahead amaze me.

[Master Zap]

[quote]I've spelled it and pronounced it like that all my life [/quote]Of course you pronounced it like that, because it SHOULD be pronounced like that. I never understand why some people - english speakers in general - have such a trouble to pick up simple german pronounciation rules, it aint rocket science. There's a great laff in the "Young Frankenstein" movie about this where Frankenstein corrects people all the time and says "I'ts fronkenschteen, actually". Which is the correct german pronounciation of the word "Frankenstein"... well... actually the actor does a poor job in the correction as well, but oh well ;) /Z

[Wewus432]

Thank you Zapster: So I try to talk about something serious and all I get is this guy telling me I don't know how to spell [b]MOTZART[/b] . You guys know me and you can give me all the shit you want and I might even listen to it, but for some reason I object to a stranger walking up and spending his first few post treating me like an asshole. Yeah, I just added that T to piss Brakka off. I wonder why Motzart's name is spelled like that? Wasn't he was born in Germany or somewhere near there? You think? Brakka: I hope your airbag goes off in your face in a fender bender so you can see what's it's like.

[Brakka]

Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]So I try to talk about something serious and all I get is this guy telling me I don't know how to spell MOTZART[/b]. M-O-Z-A-R-T. [b]Yeah, I just added that T to piss Brakka off.[/b] You added the T before you even knew who i was. You spelled it wrong, and when i corrected it, you said that some people spell it with a "T". Those people are wrong. [b]I wonder why Motzart's name is spelled like that? [/b] It's not. It's spelled MOZART. Sometimes words & names are pronounced differently than they are spelled. [b]Wasn't he was born in Germany or somewhere near there? [/b] Mozart was born in Austria (near Germany) in the mid 18th century. He was a piano and violin virtuoso by age 6, and had composed many symphonies and even operas before he was twelve. He is considered by most people to be the greatest and most important composer that ever lived. [b]Brakka: I hope your airbag goes off in your face in a fender bender so you can see what's it's like.[/b] That could happen, and i'm sure it wouldn't feel very good. However, i'm pretty sure i would still realize that airbags have saved many lives. A good friend of mine has been in two small collisions (bigger than a fender-bender, not quite a "wreck"), and the airbag went off both times. He says it saved him from banging his head on the steering wheel, but he wasn't going fast enough to do much harm in either case. Both times, however, his insurance company called the cars "totalled", and i'm sure the cost of airbag re-installation figured into that.

[Gator Wing]

As far as airbag design, since they first came out they have been redesigned to expand at slower rate to reduce the injuries/deaths that occur from airbag use. Also, airbags are intended to supplement seatbelt use, not replace it. Thus the name Supplemental Restraint System (SRS).

[Sp3nc3r]

[quote]Originally posted by Brakka: A good friend of mine has been in two small collisions (bigger than a fender-bender, not quite a "wreck"), and the airbag went off both times. He says it saved him from banging his head on the steering wheel, but he wasn't going fast enough to do much harm in either case. Both times, however, his insurance company called the cars "totalled", and i'm sure the cost of airbag re-installation figured into that.[/QB][/quote]Yep, that's a big expense to replace airbags. My girfriend's brother's car was written off, partially because of the cost of the SRS replacement. I, personally, would WAAAAY rather a vehicle with airbags, than one without. Of course, there is no device as good for preventing accidents than a bit of common sense. Cheers! Spencer

[Charlie-brm]

Hey Spencer, did you catch the W5 episode on airbags? There is a whole industry of suppliers of fake airbag covers and bypass circuits. So for a few hundred dollars installed, cars that have expended the bag look like they have an operating system. (I just looked up a place in Alabama, $75 mail order for a cover). Funny how the installers sound like the same guys that rip off consumers for unnecessary repairs with inferior parts. People have been killed in used cars, in circumstances where a working bag would have easily saved them. That's more like manslaughter, which is how Florida courts see it. Anyway, put me down as not anxious to get a bag in the face. :freak: Now what's going to stop those two retrievers in my van from coming through the back of my head :eek:

[Wewus432]

Charlie I'm sure it's coming. Mandatory pet restraint devices. Every year hundreds are killed by flying Golden retrievers. Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark. I wonder what Motzart would think of all this?

[Lee Flier]

Hippie, sorry but I just couldn't laugh at your story, I don't think drunk driving is ever funny and I certainly hope it's not something your brother does on a regular basis. If he was fucked up enough to drive into a swamp he could easily have killed himself or someone else. :( I wish I knew why so many otherwise good people think that driving drunk is an acceptable thing to do, and are more worried about getting busted for DUI than they are about their life. Yeah the DUI laws are too strict now in terms of BAC requirements and all that, but I don't think they would have gotten to that point if people had taken the issue more seriously in the first place. Airbags: I don't have 'em, and if I did I would probably spend a lot of energy thinking about what might make the airbag go off, which I probably ought to be spending focusing on driving. I know a couple of people that have had their airbags go off without having had a collison and it scared the crap out of them, plus they couldn't see where they were going. It was very lucky they didn't CAUSE an accident. I dunno, it's a good idea in theory but I just don't think they're ready for prime time yet.

[Wewus432]

Hey Bracca: I'd like to apologize for calling you a beotch. This comes right after I say I'm not going to make personal attacks on people. Jesus man, you are a trip. Let's call a truce on the Motzart thing and you come back and let's talk about music, because I'm sure you have some questions or things to say about that. What a stupid thing to argue about. Motzart or Mozart, WTF, if you want I'll cave in to peer pressure and spell it your way.

[Charlie-brm]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]Charlie I'm sure it's coming. Mandatory pet restraint devices. Every year hundreds are killed by flying Golden retrievers. ...[/b][/quote]As you can see, my dogs are restrained - not! [img]http://members.rogers.com/blackrivermedia/images/dogfight.jpg[/img] That little freak never went through the "pot belly, seal pup face" stage retriever puppies typically go through. He was even cuter when his eyes rolled back in his head like a great white.

[Chip McDonald]

The thing about airbags are that they are designed in most cases to go off as slow as 15 mph, and sometimes slower - 12 mph! I've fallen off my bike going faster than that. It's terrifying now and then, when there's been a "close call" - maybe with someone inching out into traffic in front of me as I'm slowing down for an intersection, in that speed range - terrifying to think "geez, if that lady had pulled in front of me it would have meant a broke nose, face, who knows what else"... I'm sure it's this way because of liability issues with the car companies, but it's ridiculous. I've known a few people who have been injured in pretty inocuous accidents thanks to the airbag. I've known some whose lives have been saved going faster because of them. I think they're great - over about maybe 30mph. Slower - scary. I don't like the thought of a shotgun going off in my face because my car slipped into gear in a parking lot and I bump a mailbox or some such...

[Brakka]

[quote]Originally posted by TheWewus: [b]Hey Bracca: I'd like to apologize for calling you a beotch...Let's call a truce on the Motzart thing...[/b][/quote]Itz all good.

[gtrmac]

[quote]I prefer to use the spelling with the T because it reminds me to pronounce the name correctly[/quote]This cracks me up. Reminds me of my sister in an argument. :rolleyes: