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The solution to...who played on what tracks [last go-round]


I  I mjrn

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Ongoing controversy sometimes occurs between those who dispute whether Carol Kaye or others in California ever replaced Detroiters like Jamerson on Motown tracks or only appeared on tracks originating in LA.

 

Recently Backbeat Books published a book on the Beach Boys that includes many actual AFM studio log sheets detailing specific personnel on sessions.

Certainly the same could be researched to "get to the bottom" [so to speak ;) ] of things, not just re: Motown & Jamerson but for many other artists....

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The time cards sent to the union aren't necessarily the final word for several reasons: First, there have been many instances where people signed cards on sessions that they didn't actually PLAY on (friend of the producer, songwriter, and many other reasons). Second, not all sessions are 'on the card', and never have been. Third, those things are not kept in an archival manner - I seem to remember that about 30 years of Nashville's Local 257 time cards were on the way to the dumpster when the Country Music Hall of Fame offered to take them. I'd be VERY surprised if the Motown time cards even still exist.

Dave Martin

Java Jive Studio

Nashville, TN

www.javajivestudio.com

 

Cuppa Joe Records

www.cuppajoerecords.com

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All valid points but what's in the BBoys book are the log sheets filed by the session leader/contractor; they include the working song titles personnel, instrument played, pay rate & [somewhat stunningly &, I suspect in violation of Federal law to be printed in the book] even the unblacked-out Social Security #s of the musicians!

 

These would've been the only sources for the local office to mail out the paychecks.

Whether they may be extant today---either in Detoit or LA---they could potentially settle many questions that currently are argued on the basis of anecdote & plain conjecture.

 

If nothing else, they might establish whether certain songs were ever really worked on in which studios, not just regarding Motown, which in late-1960s/early-70s did at least some productions on the west coast but also in regard to how various other artists may've actually sweetened up the original "live" recordings, etc.

 

Other thoughts?

Anyone wanna help me reaearch?

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The reason I said this is a can of worms is because a lot of people have devoted a lot of time, energy and even legal inquiries on the subject. The last time we had discussed this topic got intense enough that the word "affidavits" had been used in reference to documenting some of the Motown L.A. sessions. This is very much the case when it comes to the controversy about whether Jamerson or Carol Kaye played on tracks. It seems that there is a lot of contradictory evidence to support both sides and passions about the subject have been rather high. While my first post might have been something of a joke, to a lot of people this is no laughing matter.

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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Originally posted by I & I mjrn:

All valid points but what's in the BBoys book are the log sheets filed by the session leader/contractor; they include the working song titles personnel, instrument played, pay rate & [somewhat stunningly &, I suspect in violation of Federal law to be printed in the book] even the unblacked-out Social Security #s of the musicians!

 

These would've been the only sources for the local office to mail out the paychecks.

Whether they may be extant today---either in Detoit or LA---they could potentially settle many questions that currently are argued on the basis of anecdote & plain conjecture.

 

If nothing else, they might establish whether certain songs were ever really worked on in which studios, not just regarding Motown, which in late-1960s/early-70s did at least some productions on the west coast but also in regard to how various other artists may've actually sweetened up the original "live" recordings, etc.

 

Other thoughts?

Anyone wanna help me reaearch?

Right - what you're calling 'log sheets' and called time cards by the union here. Those are the sorts of paperwork that locals toss away whenever they get to be a pain to keep around. And it seems that Carole's memory was that they did a whole bunch of Motown tracks that weren't listed on the card (if memory serves), and she recognized her playing when she heard the song at some later point. And my other point was that not only were time cards not filed for EVERY session, but even when they were, the time cards are always completely accurate. But good luck to ya!

Dave Martin

Java Jive Studio

Nashville, TN

www.javajivestudio.com

 

Cuppa Joe Records

www.cuppajoerecords.com

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The Funk Brothers who were at the sessions all agree that it was James. It is not impossible that Detroit master tapes were worked on in LA (overdubs) studio's after the fact. You have to listen to each track one by one to determine who is playing. I was made to love her is james, no doubt.

James's and Carol's styles are totally different you can readily tell the difference if you listen for it.

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Carol Kaye played on everything - just ask her! :D

 

Seriously, as Big Daddy pointed out, their styles are so completely different as were their techniques (pick VS fingering) it should be impossible to confuse the two.

 

 

 

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OK, I admit it, it was me.

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Two final points:

[1]These log sheets are not always discarded so quickly, the ones that brought this idea up are 40+ years old & span a period of over a decade, so they're not some random cache that happened to survive until they got copied recently.

[2]Skilled musicians (like Kaye) have their defining styles but can often play very good imitations of others, In fact, that's exactly what many studio players are hired to do.

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