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Motif's and stolen licks in solo's


Bass_in_August

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Good day folks,

 

Just a question on methods of including motif's and stolen licks in solo's. I jammed with a guitarist the other day who was throwing in a lot of well known classical lines into his solo and I was wondering how you approach it in terms of key centre and chord progression.

 

thanks

James

Play it once it's a mistake, play it twice and its Jazz
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Good day to you to, James,

I think the short of it is that you just play what fits. You're just going to use a snippet -- a small piece -- so look for something that fits in one chord or over one chord change. Don't limit yourself to the exact same chord changes used in the original; sometimes the melody will fit on something different.

For bass it can be easier than g****r, because typically for an extended solo you're only being accompanied by the drummer. This frees you somewhat harmonically.

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In the few solos that i've played ((2) +fiddling around alone)...i find that i always throw in something that sounds very miles davisey (to me). Not because i thought it would be cool...but b/c i think miles' cool style of playing is where it is at...so subconsciously...he just comes out.

 

I've also found myself vocalizing over whatever i hear...just to see where i go...if i like what i hear...i'll apply it to bass so that familiarity with how i sing kinda comes out on bass.

 

jason "...master of the ellipsis..." akins

 

jason

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Originally posted by Bass_in_August:

I jammed with a guitarist the other day who was throwing in a lot of well known classical lines into his solo and I was wondering how you approach it in terms of key centre and chord progression.

I approach it the same as in judging a person's conversation: the more he has to repeat what someone else has said, the less original and interesting he becomes. Consequently, a little in the right place can enhance and entertain an otherwise dull conversation.

 

Which is why one of my favorite tricks is to play back a guitarist's favorite triplets and rip-offs in the middle of his solo. It's even funnier when they don't notice what's happening.

:wave:

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A lot of musicians have taken to throwing in melodies from other songs into their solos. It's actually a fairly tried and true concept. Just listen to some Bill Evans Trio recordings. Evans used to throw in the melody from "Some day my prince will come" into a number of his solos. Try listening more for things like that in solos. They pop up more often than you think.

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What I was taught to do originally was use melodies from nursery rhymes. Do it in a simple I-IV-V blues, then II-V-I, etc. Then practice that in a ll 12 keys. Once you get the hang of that it's much easier to quote larger riffs because you've an idea of where quotes fit into the larger context. Plus, you don't have to spend all the time memorizing stuff you've known since childhood.

"Modern music is people who can't think signing artists who can't write songs to make records for people who can't hear."

-Frank Zappa

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Originally posted by butcherNburn:

It's all stolen..

yup. i had a friend that could listen to any rock song and tell you what led zep song they ripped off and why. and it made sense.

 

everyone puts bits of other stuff in what they play. some people do it as a little tribute, or a jab at another band member. i ripped off the violent femmes in my fills for years.

Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh.
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The one I've heard most is "Surry with the Fringe on Top", fullowed closely by "In an English Country Garden". 40's bebop especially - maybe it was an in joke or something. One of my old bands, my predecessor (keyboardist, not bassist), used to work Pop Goes the Weasel into every one of his solos.

 

Anyhow, for most idioms, you keep your groove going and the soloist plays lines (stolen or not) that he thinks will fit. But I'm an old guy - maybe jamband protocol is follow the soloist?

 

Because I'm the bassist and keyboardist (left hand keyboard bass) in my current band, when I get a solo, I'll often turn it into another tune temporarily - like I snuck Tutu into the middle of Pick Up the Pieces at our last session. Worked pretty well, the guys want to make it a regular thing now.

 

And sometimes choreographed solo segues can be big fun - I was in a Baltimore band 15 years ago, we worked Floyd's "Money" guitar solos, pretty much verbatim, into the middle of Green Onions - even kept a couple 7/4 bars after the end of the solos (solos are 4/4) before reverting to the Booker T groove. We impressed the hell out of ourselves, LOL - never left the basement, though.

 

Daf

I played in an 8 piece horn band. We would often get bored. So...three words:

"Tower of Polka." - Calumet

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