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Semi-OT: Bob "Dylan" Zimmerman's Diss


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From NME.com :

 

BOB DYLAN has launched a withering attack on contemporary rock bands in the programme notes for his latest American tour.

 

"I know there are groups at the top of the charts that are hailed as the saviours of rock'n'roll and all that, but they are amateurs. They don't know where the music comes from," he wrote, adding, I wouldn't even think about playing music if I was born in these times... I'd probably turn to something like mathematics. That would interest me. Architecture would interest me. Something like that."

I personally think this is in poor taste. It also groups all of today's music into a single category. Any takers?
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Seems to me he made a 'withering attack' on SOME bands at the top of the charts today. I can't argue with that. As far as 'knowing where the music comes from', it would depend on who he's referring to. One comes to mind pretty quickly...

 

I wonder...if I said 'ashlee', how many posts would it take for djwayne to show up?

 

All bets accepted...my vote is 'within 5 posts'.

 

Peace,

Tim from Jersey :thu:

Play. Just play.
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Originally posted by getz76:

From NME.com :

 

BOB DYLAN has launched a withering attack on contemporary rock bands in the programme notes for his latest American tour.

 

"I know there are groups at the top of the charts ..."

Seems to me it does not say all musical groups everywhere.

 

I don't care for his voice very much, but his music and lyrics are phenominal. Hey, I gotta stick up for a fellow Iron Ranger.

 

ATM

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it's pretty cliché for an older musician to gripe about the quality of current music. it's a pretty tired lament. i actually think that there is probably more good new music today than when i was coming of age in the mid to late 90s, sort of on the tail end of the grunge explosion. but most of the new music i love is not even near the top of the charts, so i can relate to his lament that, of the most popular music, so little of it is compelling, and even of popular rock music, it is even less compelling. i can understand being more interested in blogging that starting a band in that context.

 

all i know is that nickelback is probably the worst band ever. they only inspire me to want to kick them all square in the nuts.

 

robb.

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Careful, robb, I think the bassist from Nickelback is a Peavey endorser. ;)

 

I guess re-reading his quote doesn't quite encompass all bands, but Mr. Dylan should probably look back at the charts from back in they day; it was just as "bad."

 

Great songwriter. I personally love some of his lyrics (some others sound force, but they did help define a genre). But I think this is a crap statement without being specific. And if he doesn't want to get specific, he should shut up.

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Hey, I'm just wondering.... is it bad to want to make music that people like?

 

Personally, I think I'd probably "sell my soul to the devil," play pop music if I got to play every other night and people liked my music. As long as I wrote it that is. Is that wrong?

 

Sorry to somewhat hijack the thread, but I'm really curious.

In Skynyrd We Trust
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Sellout!!

 

Just kidding. My feeling is that if you are enjoying yourself with your music, that should be good enough, everything else is gravy.

 

We're currently playing "Music for money." Ethical dilema: If put on an album, would we have to pay royalties on this song? Hmmmmm.

 

ATM

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Having been a Dylan fan since '63, I can tell you that Bob has ALWAYS said shit like that. He's never really felt that anything he says outside his music is all that important, but if people insist on ASKING him, he'll say anything he wants. He don't give a shit. Many times he made comments that he was later called out on, and insisted he didn't remember saying anything of the sort. "Whatever I was talking about", he once said, "must not have been all that important."

 

Whitefang

I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!
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We might fret over the very idea of saying such a thing. Or we might look at what is actually said. It seems to me that the main point is that a lot of musicians no longer know where the music they play comes from.

 

Think about it. In earlier times of popular music--rock & roll very broadly--it was a new form of music that was very fresh in its reception of other music forms: folk, blues, country, jazz, even classical, and took it all in exciting new directions & fused it in lots of weird ways. Rock musicians were inspired by musicians from other genres.

 

That part of it is, I think, largely lost. Now rock is based for the most part on other rock. And it does seem to me that when rock became enough of a genre of its own, so that rock was now based on rock, it changed in big ways. And apparently Mr. Dylan finds that when it changed in that way, it became less interesting, or perhaps less "rooted." Maybe it just started running out of new ways of being interesting.

 

Maybe he's wrong about that. But it's an interesting idea, and I take it he'd be one to have an informed perspective, even if I've never been a fan of his. I don't know whether it's true, but it doesn't bother me that he said it. Someone probably needed to hear it.

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Bob is a beat. It is groovey for a beat to hate the popualr stuff. He is not being insulting. He's being true to his nature.

 

I have seen Bob at times in his career that he wasn't even Bob. I mean you could not tell it was him singing, let alone what song he was singing. Then I have seen him sound better then he did on the records.

 

We all have our own tastes. He would proably like my demo stuff if he heard it.

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"If Bob Dylan could be considered a singer, then I could be considered a singer!" - Dr.John, on his decision to try singing

 

I was at a benefit show on Sunday night. The pros in the local music scene, almost to a man (or woman), lament that the live music environment is in the state it's in. This is everyone from Elvis impersonators to 80s hairband types.... it's different than, say, 50s nostalgia. Because it includes folks who perform 50s music, and they are in agreement with those who perform JanisJoplin and LedZep and MotleyCrue.

 

I think it's a symptom of the same malaise Dylan is describing.

I used to think I was Libertarian. Until I saw their platform; now I know I'm no more Libertarian than I am RepubliCrat or neoCON or Liberal or Socialist.

 

This ain't no track meet; this is football.

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Bullshit.

 

Look at the Billboard Top 200 Artists for 12/24/2004 in pop.

 

Here's a sample:

Norah Jones

Outkast

Usher

Sheryl Crow

Rod Stewart

No Doubt

Prince

Sarah McLachlan

Black Eyed Peas

Harry Connick Jr.

Los Lonely Boys

Velvet Revolver

The Beastie Boys

Red Hot Chili Peppers

John Mayer

Audioslave

Diana Krall

 

So is Mr. Dylan saying none of these acts know about their "roots." Maybe he's talking about those "other" acts. Well, who exactly is he talking about? I personally don't like it when people generalize; if you're going to take a swipe like this, I think you should be specific. "I think a band like Green Day don't know the roots of music." That's a statement. I might not agree with him, but at least I know what the hell he's talking about.

 

And he doesn't get a pass just because he's Bob Dylan; he put this in his concert programme.

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Bob Dylan is just another guy with an opinion, like everyone else. He doesn't like some of the stuff on the charts right now.

 

Whoopty-frickin'-doo.

 

So what? What he says has very little, if any, effect on the people who buy the music at the top of the charts these days.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Originally posted by ATM of MN:

Originally posted by getz76:

From NME.com :

 

BOB DYLAN has launched a withering attack on contemporary rock bands in the programme notes for his latest American tour.

 

"I know there are groups at the top of the charts ..."

Seems to me it does not say all musical groups everywhere.
Seems to me it does not say ALL musical groups at the top of the charts either, but I would agree with Bob on the Beastie Boys at least. :D

 

ATM

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What Mr. Dylan said didn't bother me. I really don't care what Bob Dylan likes or dislikes, as it doesn't affect what I like and dislike. What I like is better than what he likes anyway.

 

It surprises me when artists, especially one with the success of Bob Dylan, is willing to sh*t on an entire population of artists (in this case, those groups at the tops of the charts).

 

Low class, I would contend.

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Bob Dylan must be important if an offhand comment of his gets you riled up.

 

I agree with what CMDN said.

 

And I don't think it's polite to put his name Dylan in quotes as if it's a fake name. He's been using that name for forty years, any court of law would recognize it as his legal name.

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Originally posted by getz76:

It surprises me when artists, especially one with the success of Bob Dylan, is willing to sh*t on an entire population of artists (in this case, those groups at the tops of the charts).

 

Low class, I would contend.

Frankly, I think Bob has paid his dues and has the right to be critical. He DID pay some measure of tribute to his roots with his early work, and he knows where music has been. That's key in paving the musical road ahead.

 

In fact, we should all be as critical as Bob Dylan. Because the way the music industry (marketing and promotion) works is that they want to offer up something safe and mediocre that's got the potential to sell.

 

I don't think we should bash the guy for his honesty. At least he's got a good measure of artistic credibility to back up his opinion.

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"My concern is, and I have to, uh, check with my accountant, that this might bump me into a higher, uh, tax..."

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I knew this was worth discussing!

 

Jermey, Bob Dylan is important to modern music. I'm not sure if I'm riled up as much as I am disappointed. Here's a person that can have real impact. He has no obligation to do anything, but if he's going to put a statement like that in his programme, why not think it through a little more? He's effectively saying that there is no current music that is worth a damn. I think that's a bit insulting. Yes, it is his opinion, I just wish he'd be a bit more specific. I'm going to send him an email and ask for examples. I'll let everyone know the response.

 

And putting his name in quotes was rude but for a reason; I think it's funny when someone who has gone by a pseudoname their entire career to chastise others about knowing their roots.

 

Nicklab, I'm not bashing him for his honesty, I'm bashing him for his vagueness. Also, he is trying to convey that music was "better" during his time. There was plenty of crap on the charts back then. Just check them out. We remember and carry forward all the good tunes, but we tend to forget about all of the crap.

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I fall in the CMDM and JeremyC camp.

 

In spite of his extremely thoughtful lyrics, in his interviews he comes off spontaneous and witty, but a little knee-jerk.

 

If you look a little deeper in his comments, you might think he was making a point about the fact that the music biz is so contrived and controlled; the creativity allowed when he was 20 often falls victim to corporate greed OR artist greed.

 

Everybody who thinks about forming a band and writing and performing music is keenly aware of just how much money is available if you hit. They may not be interested in that, but they are aware of that.

 

In Bob Dylan's heyday, the idea of getting rich playing coffee houses was as much of a pipe dream as the idea of getting rich hiking a football. It just didn't happen back then.

 

The possibility of getting a hit and winding up in a mansion in the Hollywood Hills is a giant, silent ogre that influences virtually all of the artistic decisions somebody makes.

Yep. I'm the other voice in the head of davebrownbass.
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Dave, I agree to an extent; there's more money now than ever before.

 

However, it wasn't all good back in the day, either. It's not like there was some type of music-industry utopia in the early 60s.

 

There are at least alternative mediums to get some music out to the scene today.

 

Did I mention I was a fan of the man's music?

 

If this was an interview, I would not have reacted the same way. Being thoughtful in an interview is very hard unless your used to it and prepared to some extent. This appeared in his concert programme. That's why I'm hammering him a bit.

 

However, I don't think I'm really going after him all that hard.

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Maury,

I don't think you're going after Dylan all that roughly.

 

While I, too, am somewhat disappointed that Bobby Z is generally bashing the music at the top of the charts today, I'm not really suprised, either. He's always been a pretty vicious music critic.

 

However, I also don't really think his opinion on this subject is any more valid than anyone else's....

 

I also like his stuff.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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Originally posted by getz76:

I personally think this is in poor taste.

One thing we know about Bob (We used to call him Bob Dill, the singing pickle, cause he was such a sourpuss). He's never been concerned with good taste if it conflicts with his opinion or expression thereof.
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Originally posted by getz76:

Also, he is trying to convey that music was "better" during his time.

Here is a partial list of songs that made the top 40 in 1965 (the year - I think - that Highway 61 Revisited was released):

 

As Tears Go By - The Rolling Stones (#6)

Back In My Arms Again - The Supremes (#1)

California Girls - The Beach Boys (#3)

Don't Let Me Be Misunderstood - The Animals (#15)

For Your Love - The Yardbirds (#6)

Going to a Go-Go - The Miracles (#11)

Help Me, Rhonda - The Beach Boys (#1)

Help! - The Beatles (#1)

(I Can't Get No) Satisfaction - The Rolling Stones (#1)

I Can't Help Myself - Four Tops (#1)

I Got You (I Feel Good) - James Brown (#3)

I'm a Man - The Yardbirds (#17)

In the Midnight Hour - Wilson Pickett (#21)

It's the Same Old Song - Four Tops (#5)

Jenny Take a Ride! - Mitch Ryder & The Detroit Wheels (#10)

Like a Rolling Stone - Bob Dylan (#2)

Midnight Special - Johnny Rivers (#20)

Mr. Tambourine Man - The Byrds (#1)

My Girl - The Temptations (#1)

Nowhere to Run - Martha & The Vandellas (#8)

Ooh Baby Baby - The Miracles (#16)

Papa's Got a Brand New Bag (Part 1) - James Brown (#8)

People Get Ready - The Impressions (#14)

Shotgun - Jr. Walker & The All-Stars (#4)

The Sounds of Silence - Simon & Garfunkel (#1)

Stop! in the Name of Love - The Supremes (#1)

Tell Her No - The Zombies (#6)

Ticket To Ride - The Beatles (#1)

Tired of Waiting for You - The Kinks (#6)

The Tracks of My Tears - The Miracles (#16)

Turn! Turn! Turn! (To Everything There Is a Season) - The Byrds (#1)

Unchained Melody - The Righteous Brothers (#4)

We Gotta Get Out of This Place - The Animals (#13)

Wooly Bully - Sam the Sham & The Pharaohs (#2)

Yesterday - The Beatles (#1)

 

To be sure there was plenty of crap as well. Patty Duke, God bless her, had 2 top forties that year. (I hesitate to mention I'm Henry VIII I Am). The question is, will folks 40 years from now look back as fondly at a list of classics from 2005?

Push the button Frank.
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The question is, will folks 40 years from now look back as fondly at a list of classics from 2005?
Well, if you consider that there's already a generation of folks who look fondly back on the hits from 1985 both and 1995, I wouldn't be suprised if some of the popular stuff from the present era is eventually considered "classic." Music and other pop-culture things often imprint on people when they're of a certain pivotal age, and they tend to carry strong memories of their lives which include those elements... when enough people born around the same time period share the same sort of memories imprinted with the same soundtrack, those songs become "classics."

 

What the masses like and buy rarely has anything to do with what is considered "good" by the arftistic community. Again, it's about opinions... one man's trash is another man's treasure and all that.

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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My all time favorite quote from Dylan was when somebody asked him about the critics comments about his music. His reply was, "Well, if you give somebody a lot of knives and forks, they're gonna have to cut something."
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Originally posted by getz76:

Bullshit.

 

Look at the Billboard Top 200 Artists for 12/24/2004 in pop.

 

Here's a sample:

Norah Jones

Outkast

Usher

Sheryl Crow

Rod Stewart

No Doubt

Prince

Sarah McLachlan

Black Eyed Peas

Harry Connick Jr.

Los Lonely Boys

Velvet Revolver

The Beastie Boys

Red Hot Chili Peppers

John Mayer

Audioslave

Diana Krall

 

So is Mr. Dylan saying none of these acts know about their "roots." Maybe he's talking about those "other" acts. Well, who exactly is he talking about? I personally don't like it when people generalize; if you're going to take a swipe like this, I think you should be specific. "I think a band like Green Day don't know the roots of music." That's a statement. I might not agree with him, but at least I know what the hell he's talking about.

 

And he doesn't get a pass just because he's Bob Dylan; he put this in his concert programme.

Nice job of cherry picking. You could also have put up this list:

 

Hilary Duff

Evanescence

Linkin Park

Jessica Simpson

Ashley Simpson

Blink-182

Ludacris

Clay Aiken

Korn

Lil Jon

Juvenile

Incubus

Eminem

Slipknot

50 Cent

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