Jump to content


Please note: You can easily log in to MPN using your Facebook account!

My 8th note difficulties - it was the computer having sync problems, not me!!!


alexclaber

Recommended Posts

Embarrassed to admit this but I'm struggling with thudding 8th notes for a track over on Collaboration Corner. Just can't get it sitting the way I want it to. I'm sure I could pull this off in the room with a drummer or even to a real drum track but I'm going by click and a guide demo with programmed drums and I'm just not deep enough into the U2/AC-DC/ZZ-Top mindset.

 

Does anyone here specialise in going duhduhduhduh with precision and feel, and if so, would they like to record this track? It's a good song (with our own Dave Sisk on lead vocal) but I'm starting to lose patience after too many takes!

 

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Replies 30
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Alex, you can do this! Why? Because you are THE MAN! Drink a couple of beers, and think "sleepy". Then chunk this sucker on out...you can do it, I don't have any doubts!

 

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alex I remember you talking about using 3 finger technique, for this I would stick to 2 as long as its not too fast. and maybe a very light frett hand mute, as in frett the note with your index finger and just ever so slightly lay your middle finger across it, be sure to be firm enough though not to let any harmonics ring out.
THE ace of bass
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whether this applies in your case or this instance, I of course can't say but I've observed that even players with great feel can get into trouble when trying to follow clicks, especially if its not their usual method.

Often people get tense about the timing & try to both wait for the click to cue them & to hit at the same time; obviously this causes a hesitation.

 

If you can, get the click to precede the music by several measures so you can get into the feel & count it as you usually would (basically ignoring the click except to stay in tempo).

Another trick is to put the click only on the "1" or another broad division. This allows one to use it as a tempo guide but removes it from interfering with your usual mental/subconscious counting.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My partner writes a lot of stuff requiring pumping those straight 8ths. He tells me not to listen to the kick, focus on the high hat.

 

This may go against all real bass training, but then I'm not a trained player, don't think of a long line of thuds, think of them in groups. Throw a ghost in here and there to help keep your focus.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Off topic, but I'm curious...how do you guys go about recording these collaborations? Do you just email eachother massive sound files and record on your own equipment? Do you record one track, burn it and FedEx it to the next person?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Davio, why don't you go read up on the Collab Corner!

 

In a nutshell, the originator generally publishes a WAV file "reference track" with click (or drum machine rhythm) and whatever else is useful as a guide. The contributors record their tracks based on this reference track, then upload them to wherever. Some of us have FTP space where we publish files, some folks send everything via www.yousendit.com...whatever works. All you need to contribute is some talent on your instrument, some way to get a decent recording of your instrument (for bass, direct in works really well), and the ability to check your ego at the door. Generally, the song writer has some way to pull tracks together and do at least a test mix (although not always). The rule of thumb is to always use the click/timing track on the reference track, and everything will sync up correctly with little effort. It all works really well.

 

We need folks to start on song #5, so go introduce yourself in the Collab Corner!

 

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alex - I bet the responses above will help you.

 

If that fails, use a different technique (which Maury also suggested). Playing it two-fingered? Use one. Use a pick (all down strokes).

 

Another idea, though a bit sacriligious, is to drop notes out. Leave out a note on beat three every so often. It might give you the chance to "catch up", or it might give you some perspective and a "grounding" point.

 

I'm sure you'll get it.

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Blah...

 

I was fairly happy with the original take which started off with long notes and then progressed through to 8ths. Unfortunately that didn't go down so well - admittedly some of the timing wasn't dead on, but still...

 

For the 8th note stuff it's been either one finger plucking (two just isn't even enough), palm mute and thumb plucking, and for the last take, tea-towel under the strings and single finger plucking.

 

I think I'm going to revert to my more orchestral approach as in the earlier good take, but use some EQ (cut highs, add bottom) and get more into the groove, which is much easier now there are real drums to track to.

 

Alex

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

and for the last take, tea-towel under the strings and single finger plucking.

Alex

You are SO british :D

 

Good luck with the recording

 

Just practice, practice, practice until you get it dead on. PLay along to vh recordings, play along with don't stop vbelieving by journey(ha!),

Listen to acdc in the car, and play those 8ths while you sleep.

Hiram Bullock thinks I like the band volume too soft (but he plays guitar). Joe Sample thinks I like it way too loud (but he plays piano). -Marcus Miller
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Straight repeating 8ths and 16ths are one of the hardest things to do with your picking hand.

 

Start slow with a metronome at a comfortable tempo...then speed up. Keep your attack as light as possible and stay relaxed. It'll come.

 

I had to get my chops together with this stuff when I joined Mrs. Grundy.

 

I still have trouble with it occasionally. :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh for ****'s sake. I have had it with this track. I've reached the point where I'm not sure whether it's me that's out of sync or the computer. I've done about 40 (yes, forty) takes and am not happy with any of them. With all sorts of pickup combinations and EQ, with various muffling devices under the strings, with fingers, with thumb, with pick, with and without palm muting. Sitting back, getting on top, and landing on the beat.

 

No more advice wanted! ;) Just a bass player that's willing to record a competent bassline for this track. Please!

 

Alex

 

P.S. See this thread for the details.

 

P.P.S. So I'm copping out? I've my own album to do and I've already spent hours and hours on this song without bearing fruit, whilst in half the time I wrote and recorded a complete song of my own with bass bass, rhythm bass, lead bass and vocals. Might as well focus my limited time on more productive things. And give someone else a chance... ;)

 

P.P.P.S. Bite me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alex.. Okay, and thanks for the 40 trys! I'm sorry it turned out to be a frustrating experience for you. Maybe just not a good match-up. ;)

 

If someone is interested to take the bass part please PM me and perhaps I can facilitate. Here is a demo of the song with an ametuer-quality bass line by me. Dave Sisk on lead vocal!

http://www.abjconstruction.net/files/ReachNewDemoMix2.mp3

 

thanks for listening,

Hooper

:cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd like to step up since I'm bandless and itching to do something. Plus, I like the song.

Tenstrum

 

"Paranoid? Probably. But just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face."

Harry Dresden, Storm Front

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

Embarrassed to admit this but I'm struggling with thudding 8th notes for a track over on Collaboration Corner. Just can't get it sitting the way I want it to. I'm sure I could pull this off in the room with a drummer or even to a real drum track but I'm going by click and a guide demo with programmed drums and I'm just not deep enough into the U2/AC-DC/ZZ-Top mindset.

 

Does anyone here specialise in going duhduhduhduh with precision and feel, and if so, would they like to record this track? It's a good song (with our own Dave Sisk on lead vocal) but I'm starting to lose patience after too many takes!

 

Alex

I alway find simpler is better when I hit a head scratcher. Here's my thought, please ignore any and all clams. :D

 

http://users3.ev1.net/~woodd/demo3.mp3

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not a bad track, as these things go.

 

FYI, and just my personal opinion. The reason you don't feel your line is working, is time.

 

Your time is great. You are playing right on the beat.

 

But most of these tunes with the repeated eighths work better if you play a wee bit ahead of the beat. With a bit more attack.

 

I'm not especially good at that...I (like my mentor CR) am a back of the beat kinda guy.

 

Remember...just my personal opinion. There are recorded examples of "ahead of beat" and "on the beat" eighth notes.

Yep. I'm the other voice in the head of davebrownbass.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

i think we need to know more to help you there. maybe you need to make your hardware-buffer smaller so you get less lag from your system while recording? some programs take this lag into account, others don't.

record your click with all the same settings you had as before. check how much milliseconds there are between the first upramp slope of the original click and the re-recorded click. move your bassline that many milliseconds back. i'm not saying you didn't try this already but it's the only thing i can come up with now.

taking lag into account with digital recordings is really important because otherwise layer after layer of music is somewhere around the beat but not really...

 

i put a loud click in the beginning of the click track, so that it gets recorded from my headphones through my pickups or microphone or whatever (holding the headphones next to them and then putting headphones back on). this way each track has its own reference to the startpoint of the click-track. or just check the difference once and shift every recorded track that many milliseconds back, less hassle...

 

my 2 cents

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

Hey everyone, I'm not crap, but my computer is! :D

 

I just recorded its click back into itself and it's about a 32nd note out!!!

 

All that wasted time and frustration but at least the end is in sight.

 

But how to fix it?

 

Alex

Were all the wrong notes the computer transposing for you as well? :P (Just kidding!) I'll bet you feel better knowing it's a computer problem rather than short-circuit between the keyboard and the floor, eh? :cool:

 

I've always used stand-along digital recorders so I haven't had to tackle this problem myself, but I'll bet you're running into the dreaded PC-recording delay problem that's been mentioned in lots of PC recording posts. Essentially, it's taking your workstation and software 1/32 note worth of time to actually process what's going on. I'd suggest posting/searching on the studio forum here, or hitting somewhere like Recording.com, etc. I don't know the answer, but I'll bet you'll find it there...

 

HTH,

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

:D:rolleyes:

Originally posted by C. Alexander Claber:

Hey everyone, I'm not crap, but my computer is! :D

 

I just recorded its click back into itself and it's about a 32nd note out!!!

 

 

Alex

Ain't technology grand?

What a timesaving convenience computers are!! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...