Russian drummer and dragon bassist

[Gruuve]

I played in church recently with our less experienced drummer. He has a real tendency to speed up the tempos on slower songs (and slow down the tempos on faster songs). The worship leader relies on myself and the other bassist to help keep the tempos in check. So, on slower songs I find myself consciously playing behind the beat quite a bit in an attempt (sometimes successful, sometimes futile) to keep the tempo's from speeding up. Sometimes it's just a matter of putting a single note behind the beat, or that's what I'm finding. (And this is really good practice for me too...I have a tendency to either play right on or in front of the beat, so consciously playing behind the beat is something I need to work on myself.)

 

I have to say that I don't play as well when I'm playing with this drummer as I do when I'm playing with the more experienced drummer (to be expected of course). The challenge for me here is to try to help keep him in the pocket, but also pay enough attention to my own playing that I don't make melodic mistakes. (I rarely make rhythmic mistakes on something I've practiced...probably because I grew up as a drummer.) So, it's distracting to play with this fella. He's a truly nice person, and I think he plays to the best of his abilities (even though I am encouraging him to practice with a metronome, and I've offered a few times to have a seperate rhythm section practice with just he and I before our full group rehearsal, etc.). I really think he's doing the best he can, so rather than focusing on how I can help him become a better drummer, I really need to focus on how I can help him play better through my own bass playing. (Did that make sense? Hope you see the distinction I'm after.)

 

There's a good side to everything, and this is really forcing me to concentrate on how I can influence our pace and meter outside of what the drummer does. The drummer drives the bus (as our band leader likes to say), but this is forcing me to become more effective as a back-seat driver, so to speak.

 

This drummer is improving, but there's still a ways to go. (I don't believe asking him not to play is an option. I personally wouldn't take that option anyway because he is improving.) I'm just curious about what suggestions anyone may have about how to become more effective at being a "back-seat driver" in circumstances like this. So, post any ideas you might have...I'll very likely give 'em a try.

 

Dave

[Fred TBP]

You need to haul him over on the side and have a one-on-one sitdown with him. I'd prefer doing it over a meal at a nice diner, nothing fancy, or anyplace that's comfortable and has good music pumped in. Don't just talk about it, though, I'd play some music examples and have a "listening session" with him to compare how you meter time.

 

But don't assume he's doing it intentionally. My suspicion is he's played with so many "russians" and "speed kings" (remember those? ) that he's forgotten how to do it with the right people. To add to that, trying to learn the song from the radio or from a cassette tends to have the results speeded up in the copy process, unless you're using really good equipment (say a tape deck with direct drive).

 

A good one-on-one with your drummer is recommended.

[Tenstrum]

Metronome....

[lug]

One of my kids is a <<<>> drummer. His teacher would make him play to a metronome, remove the metronome, and then bring it back in to see if he had stayed on beat. The initial time was short but then he would suspend it for longer and longer periods. My kid has the best beat control of anyone I've heard his age. I don't know if the is is natural or because of the teacher's method, but I'm inclined to credit the teacher.

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by Fred the bass player:

You need to haul him over on the side and have a one-on-one sitdown with him.

This a good thought, but I feel like I'd be stepping out of my place in the group. I feel like this should be the band leader's role to crack the whip. Let me think about this one...I think the best thing I could do is to get him over to do a "rhythm section" practice with me. I can turn on the metronome and let us both play with it.

 

But don't assume he's doing it intentionally.

He's definitely not doing it intentionally...the speed picks up on the more excited parts of the song, so I know it's a matter of lack of attention/technique/practice/etc. on his part.

[Quinn]

This is a problem I've encountered in the past, too (and probably most of us have at one point.)

 

It's tough, but I'd just talk about it with him in a positive, constructive manner:

 

"I noticed we're having some tempo issues that seem to be affecting the groove. I'd like to work on this together - is there a convenient time when we could do this?"

 

You're aware of the problem and you are obviously respectful of the drummer's feelings, so you're off ot the right start. You CAN improve as a team.

[deanmass]

Metronome in earpiece or pulse light.

 

We parted with our last drummer for this. Nice guy, but it was killing us, especially on change ups.

[musicfiend]

I would suggest doing your rehearsals with the metronome going through an earpiece to the drummer. I t will frustrate him to begin with, but he will get better through consistent practce.

[alexclaber]

A few suggestions:

 

Make sure the drummer can hear you clearly. Sit back into the beat and refuse to budge from the starting tempo - if he's listening to you he won't be able to speed up because you're holding him back - he may end up playing ahead of the beat but the tempo shouldn't go anyway. The only way you'll manage this is by believing in your tempo and groove and playing every note strongly with clear timing. It's hard but it should make a difference.

 

Talk to him about this issue; point out that he speeds up on slow songs and slows down on fast ones, and tell him when it tends to happen. Ask him to concentrate on not speeding up when things get loud/exciting and vice versa - if he's just playing a simple groove without fills then he should be able to focus on counteracting his natural tempo shifts. If the tempo changes happen when he fills, then tell him that's the case and ask him to be careful on his fills, or to avoid fills unless he's totally confident about getting back where he started and not hitting the one earlier or later than he should.

 

Good luck!

 

Alex

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by musicfiend:

I would suggest doing your rehearsals with the metronome going through an earpiece to the drummer. I t will frustrate him to begin with, but he will get better through consistent practce.

Dude, why do you always post twice?

Dude, why do you always post twice?

 

(Sorry...couldn't resist that jib! )

[Wolf Tyrant]

I have similar issue with the high school drummer in our worship band. When he starts speeding up or dragging, I catch his eye (which in some cases is standing right in front of one of his cymbals) and start doing a head bob to the beat. If that doesn't help, I start going into a whole body thing to emphasize the beat. He grins and gets back with the band.

[Gruuve]

Originally posted by Wolf Tyrant:

I have similar issue with the high school drummer in our worship band. When he starts speeding up or dragging, I catch his eye (which in some cases is standing right in front of one of his cymbals) and start doing a head bob to the beat. If that doesn't help, I start going into a whole body thing to emphasize the beat. He grins and gets back with the band.

This is a great suggestion (wait, you mean actually pay attention to what everyone else is playing and communicate on stage? Nah...). I'm already doing this to some extent...the problem is that when he starts to rush is when he's digging in to an excited part of the song, and in that case he already isn't paying attention to anything else (otherwise he wouldn't be rushing in the first place). He does most of the rushing on fills, and comes out of the fill at a new faster tempo. In all likelihood, it isn't noticeable to the listeners, but it's sure noticeable to me (and apparently to the band leader).

 

In all reality, it's awefully hard to beat him up...Steve Gadd was notorious for rushing fills, so no one's perfect!

 

Dave

[Tom Capasso]

Some of the suggestions above suggest that you state that the drummer is "wrong". That's not what Fred had in mind. I'd go with Quinn's idea about working on it together. Since you aren't correcting someone, you're not doing the director's job (but if you fix this, the director will appreciate it).

 

Introducing a metronome is telling him he's wrong.

 

If it were me, I'd probably be wrong as often as the drummer. Working together is the best answer.

 

Tom

[saxofunk]

I also vote for a metronome or click track. (Sorry Tom, I know you're trying to put some compassion on the table.)

 

Think of it as a gift, not a punishment.

 

In my 5 years of church band experience (ok, on sax, but it still counts!) we have mostly used a click. It is vital when there are key changes and from one song to the next. In case of train wreck, the drummer at least provides a rail so we can all get back on track.

 

Just explain, "My LowDown friend Matt W in Tulsa says that all the 2000+ seat churches give their drummers a click." I can provide a list, if necessary.

[EddiePlaysBass]

Originally posted by Tom Capasso:

Introducing a metronome is telling him he's wrong.

I'm with Tom on this one. Whilst the metronome would solve one problem, it might create another one.

 

See, to me that approach seems somewhat too in-yer-face. Even if he's a drummer, he's still a human being

 

If and when you talk to him about it, handle with care. In my ever so humble opinion, it's thin ice you're treading on.

 

Best of luck !