Michael Jackson: The recording industry is racist

[lwilliam]

I actually think it's good (in an ironic way) that even $25 million in promotion can't sell bad music. Think how much GOOD music that would have promoted... Interesting how Tommy could be considered racist when he was married to Mariah....I think MJ's out to lunch. Now Tommy may be a real asshole, but racist? It's a publicity stunt - very simple: it get's his name back in People magazine and then he might sell some CDs...

[koolkid]

[quote]Originally posted by SteveRB: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Ted Nightshade: [b]Take a good look at this statement! Why do you think they push the thuggiest and worst of "black" music? To promote racism. Looks like it's working.[/b][/quote]No, I can't agree Ted. The audience that watches rap and hip-hop on MTV are primarily young white and hispanic teens and pre-teens. They don't perceive those images as negative, they look at those artists primarily as men and women that they can identify with. I'll go even farther and say that black musicians on MTV, even if some are gangstas and thugs, have done a lot for race relations and even though I despise many of those videos I applaud MTV for not shying away from them. When I was growing up many groups exploited the fact that they were doing massive amounts of drugs and screwing every groupy in sight. Even though I couldn't relate because I wasn't dabbling in heroin or cocaine and I wasn't having sex yet, my friends and I just loved that outlaw bad-boy image. Rappers are the new rock stars....deal with it.[/b][/quote]you totally lost the context and meaning of teds post, read back again

[koolkid]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by lwilliam: [QB]I actually think it's good (in an ironic way) that even $25 million in promotion can't sell bad music. Think how much GOOD music that would have promoted... invincible is double platinum in less than a year, they just overindulged on the records production,you guys are way off with the bad music and failure of the record stuff,i t was just poor planning, the record sold way above industry averages

[Tedly Nightshade]

He got it later, and mostly agreed. I'd sure like to hear some more of the great stuff you just don't get to hear from the big boys.

[lwilliam]

Well, double platinum at $7 each (wholesale) is still only $14 million gross, not $25 - and certainly not $60 million total cost (per the article). It's still a bean counter's nightmare...

[Skip_dup1]

I heard an interview with Nile Rogers, where he said that contrary to some peoples`s view, plenty of disco music from groups like Chic, GQ (Boogie Nights), A Taste of Honey (Boogie Oogie Oogie), were real music, done from the heart. Somewhere along the line it deteriorated into parody (Disco Duck) and subsequent ridicule.

[Tedly Nightshade]

This from the man who brought us the early 80's Bowie/Madonna sound... Still, it's true.

[deanmass]

Forgive me if I am too late, but when the F*ck did MJ become a warrior for African Americans in the music industry? Now that others that came before him and DURING his reign as the King of Pop, have broken down barrier after barrier, he is gonna finally step up to the plate? Maybe I am wrong, but the only reason he broke any barriers is because his tunes were catching. I don't seem to recal him helping get any one else any airplay ON PURPOSE.... Too weird...I am dying to know what some of the other artists think of this....

[-_dup1]

Yet [url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020710/4/d342g.html]another update[/url] to this story... ( [url=http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/52165.htm]This article[/url] has some more details...)

[Wewus432]

AN OPEN LETTER TO MICHAEL JACKSON: Michael, Michael, Michael, son you need to sit down and listen to yourself because you are just about over the edge. Are you really such an egomaniac that you will lash out against anyone and everything just because you're not on top anymore? Do you think it matters if you're bigger than Elvis or The Beatles? It doesn't! I loved that little kid who sang "ABC, it's easy as one, two, three, it's simple as Do, Ro, Me, ABC,1,2,3, baby you and me. Michael chill out man, take a bath in bottled water or whatever it takes for you to mellow out. Take a break and re-invent yourself but LEAVE YOUR GODDAMN FACE ALONE! I'm serious, you have changed your face more times than most women change their hairstyle. People want at the very least to be able to physically recognize their pop idols. What if Harrison Ford suddenly grew dreadlocks? A certain amount of his fans would dismiss him. You've grown dreadlocks on your asshole and nobody knows who you are anymore. Anyway Love you, mean it, let's do the lunch thing.

[ABECK]

[quote]Originally posted by posterchild: [b]Yet [url=http://uk.news.yahoo.com/020710/4/d342g.html]another update[/url] to this story... ( [url=http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/52165.htm]This article[/url] has some more details...)[/b][/quote]From MJ: "You need to know this, you must know this, that all forms of popular music,...are black." Damn, it sucks to be a cracker.

[Stephen Fortner]

[b]Skip,[/b] I agree wholeheartedly. A lot of the stuff to which the average Travolta wanna-be would find enough of a beat in to strut around and fail to get laid to was actually well-produced, intricate, syncopated music. So what if the chord progressions aren't gonna make Zawinul go "How'd they do that?" I play in a cover band that does a lot of stuff that could be labelled as Disco, and tellyawhut, often it's hard to duplicate that laid-back yet energetic vibe that makes people want to dance. As for the original thread, is there racism in the record biz? I'll bet money on it. Western Society has a long way to go to overcome its racism, period, and we should get with it and perform less of an insult to our sheer number of neurons. But if MJ intended that the record biz is uniquely racist, or more racist than other industries, I don't know. My naive opinion has always been that the creative arts have always had a liberal skew to them that makes them more prone to ignore color, gender, etc, when compared to the median of bias and behavior in commerce and business as a whole. If the counter-argument is that it all boils down to money, non-musical corporate America is probably just as greed-driven, or worse, than the "music biz." Yet, I can spend a day leafing through Forbes, Fortune, Barrons, BusinessWeek, and the Journal and learn about virtually zero African-Americans with huge incomes and the respect of an entire industry. In music, either with regard to performers or those producing behind the scenes, I can name a bunch off the top of my head. I'm an egregiously white boy from Vermont, so if I'm talking out my ass, I'm open to being told why.

[RobT]

[quote]Originally posted by Master Zap: [b] [quote]David Bowie's "China Girl" is disco[/quote]Okay, apparently we have disparate definitions of "disco". China girl Disco!? Not in my opinion! /Z[/b][/quote]I suppose Blondie's Rapture isn't disco either... RobT

[meccajay]

Steve i think you're right, I just think MJ was TRYING to say Motolla was racist originally and not the entire business, but we can all assume that he is just upset about NOT being the king of pop anymore... Besides who ever said that Michael wasn't as crazy as a loon anyway?!!

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

"Jew me, sue me, kick me, kike me" That certainly was the plaster calling the porceline white. Sha-mon

[Franknputer]

Hmmm...not to defend a bunch of scum-sucking pimp-weasels, but... If music industry execs are engaged in a huge anti-black conspiracy, why isn't Quincy Jones on the cover of the National Enquirer?

[wildabstaol.com]

The latest: "I know my race. I just look in the mirror. I know I'm black." Check out the picture in the accompanying article to see just how black he isn't: http://www.nypost.com/news/regionalnews/52165.htm Why doesn't he just do himself in already???

[-_dup1]

And lastly [url=http://www.nypost.com/postopinion/opedcolumnists/52112.htm]an opinion article[/url] about the MJ crusade... With some interesting historical details.

[Philip OKeefe]

This is getting wide public exposure now... I even saw it on Fox New Channel on cable on the Greta Van Susteren show last night... and before someone mentions how conservative Fox is (which I personally disagree with), Greta's an avowed liberal and Democrat... anyway, the show didn't paint Michael in a very favorable light. None of the guests took his side. They didn't say TM was the nicest guy in the world either, but it was clear that they thought he'd loose this particular battle. Just passing it along...

[David R.]

Well I just can't believe [url=http://www.beerhunter.com/]Michael Jackson[/url] would even care about this, being the most learned man on micro-brew that he is... :thu:

[Anifa]

I have NOT read the rest of this thread, I just wanted to throw my two cents in. Michael Jackson would have a better fight using "AGE" discrimination as opposed to racism. :eek: Jackson's lack of promotion and backing on his last release has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with his race or age; I attribute the flop to a very unwise business decision he used while negotiating terms for funding his project. I would agree completely that Michael Jackson is correct in claiming the Labels failed to get behind him in pushing his works... and I predicted his project to be a failure back during it's initial stages. I made mention to a producer friend of mine in Maryland, when I learned that Michael Jackson had put his ownership rights to his Beatle's collection up as collateral for the funding of his production and tour, that it would NOT matter how GREAT the materials or the production were on any of the songs released.... The project was SEALED and DOOMED for failure. THE BEATLE'S COLLECTION???? Was he insane? I saw this coming from day one.... He will be kissing his rights to the Beatles BYE-BYE.... Actually, I'm sad to see that his attempt to step up to the call of the Sept. 11, 2001 WTC tragedy failed; very sad that his heart for hope overwhelmed his good judgment in business negotiations..... but, on the flip side... I thought he was a snake when he slithered in a bought the rights to the Beatles works out from underneath their noses. I remember the scandal and ire that followed his purchase of the Beatles songs; I believe he bought the publishing rights if memory serves me correctly; Paul McCartney was a little bit BENT. "Sir" Paul McCartney's Dukeship appointed by the Royal Family of England ........ what is the net worth of the Beatles song rights now; how about another twenty years from now, how about when the last living Beatle passes away???? M.J. stole the rights, even McCartney would have pulled the moneys staight up ... had he known; and without jumping back into history and digging up the facts, I think that McCartney actually did go back in and pay huge amounts to buy some of the rights back to some of his very own creations. I think that the episode contributed to the revised copyright act that is in place in Congress today. You might say that Jackson has just been bitten by a huge LOAN SHARK; wouldn't you know it has to do with the Music Business? What comes around, goes around.

[LawrenceF]

My Opinion: Mikey is great, great talent who's grown into a wierd little child molester. If his assertions about the music industry are true, something should be done but the sight of him speaking with outrage about ANYTHING offends me more than any industry injustice he may possibly be suffering. I simply don't care. I believe that this guy had sex with children. I believe that this guy, more than once, paid money to hush people up so we wouldn't find out for sure that he's a molester. Just an opinion. One that I believe is shared by lots of people like myself who don't buy his records anymore. Besides the fact that he's stuck on the teenage "Mikey" stuff at 44 and nobody moonwalks anymore. Music industry racism? If it were legal (but of course it's not) I'd help a racist a*shole kick his butt. Frankly, I don't give a sh*t about anything he has to say except "I'm sorry, I need help...", while he's being led off to prison. To The Music Industry: Rob him blind and send him to bankrupcy court. He's earned it. Send his animal pals back to the zoo. To Other Artists Who May Have Been Harmed: If your cause is just, put someone out front with more credibility to expound on it. I'm with you all the way. But if he's out front I'm gone. Just an opinion or two. Lawrence

[LawrenceF]

[quote] I hate to say it but people don't play the "race card" when things are going well for them. It just doesn't happen. [/quote]People in general don't usually resort to tactics that offend other people until situations get serious. "My mom only hits me when she's mad..." etc. The "race" card, the "mentally disabled" card the "I was abused by red-neck parents, so forgive me for killing 32 people card". I agree with an earlier statement that Mike could have possibly made some impactful statements about racism in general earlier if it's true. Racism does exist everywhere where one race controls the money and power. It doesn't matter which race. European whites have traditionally tried to dominate every race they've encountered. That's the reality. Good plan for self-survival. Bad plan for everyone else. Never stopped me from enjoying my life. In America they have those things and they ain't gonna give them up easily. Nor would we blacks if the table were turned. It's human nature. Ask Bill Cosby about his well financed attempt to buy a TV network. There is a limit to white liberalism. Power brokers have grown weary of Mikey. Maybe because Mike's huge success in the past he never really experienced racism until now. Who knows. When it comes to the effects on him personally... who cares? He's might as well be a singing catholic priest who teaches underwear maintenance at an all boys school. Go to jail Jacko. Lawrence

[wildabstaol.com]

[b] [quote]Originally posted by koolkid: well,lets do a little math here,jackson owned half (he had already sold half to sony) of the beatles catalog which was an investment of 20 million in 1985...[/b][/quote]He paid between 50 and 75 million for the Beatles catalog. Here's a very recent article from Fox News about the state of Michael's finances -- the guy is indeed in trouble: "Jackson leaves Sony in debt, with no assets. His album catalog — Off the Wall, Thriller, Bad, Dangerous, History, Blood on the Dance Floor, and Invincible — will remain at Sony/Epic Records. His Beatles catalog is mortgaged to Sony Publishing. His own song catalog containing "Billie Jean," "Beat It" and other hits — is published by Warner/Chappell Music. But Michael has used that catalog for loans totaling millions of dollars. He is, essentially, tapped out. Hence the current behavior bordering on frenzy in which Michael is running around New York with a megaphone screaming like a stuck pig. It's as if he awoke from a long, deep coma to find his financial house on fire, and Mottola standing there with the matches. Some critics may say Jackson has only himself to blame. They are not far from wrong. Last year I told you that sources at Sony Recording Studios claimed Michael had spent tens of millions of Sony's dollars on remastering his old records. Some tracks were remastered 20 or more times before Jackson picked one he liked. Jackson ignored the mounting costs, letting Sony pick up the bills. He seemed to have no idea that one day there would be a final accounting. Jackson's personal costs are also exorbitant even by celebrity standards. He keeps a personal staff of 120 people including those who run and maintain the Neverland Ranch in Los Olivos, Calif. The zoo that's kept on the ranch, which includes many animals not usually seen as house pets, costs a fortune to maintain. Sources told me last year that Bubbles the Chimp, Michael's most famous non-human friend, died from neglect. The question of whether or not Jackson has any money left was answered last summer. That's when Michael was forced to use a diamond watch valued at $2 million as collateral for a bank loan with Bank of America/NationsBank. Jackson had taken the watch on approval from a Beverly Hills jeweler. When he returned it damaged, the jeweler demanded payment. Jackson, not having the funds, took the watch and then used it to raise the money. It wasn't Jackson's only loan. This column reported on April 19 just a portion of Jackson's business dealings. Jackson's banker, a senior vice president at the Bank of America who has worked closely on Jackson's accounts, told me then: "I've kept him alive for 20 years. And it's not that the advice he gets is bad. It's him. He's his own worst enemy." Some of the loans approved by Bank of America: In August 1994 — five months after Time magazine reported Jackson had paid a multimillion-dollar settlement after a 14-year-old boy claimed he had molested him — the King of Pop signed loan papers with Sony in which he used his catalog of songs to secure a loan. But apparently that loan didn't solve Michael's problems. In 1995, Jackson used the same catalog to borrow money from NationsBank (now Bank of America). In a separate filing with NationsBank that year, he also put up the Beatles catalog. In 1996 he again put up the MIJAC songs — including "We Are the World," the proceeds of which were supposed to go to charity. In 1997, Neverland was used as collateral with NationsBank, while Michael borrowed money from Sony using proceeds from his deal with a Saudi prince who promised to build theme parks with him. He also borrowed money from Sony in 1997 against the MIJAC catalog. What was happening was obvious — a shell game in which Jackson kept using his copyrights as assets against which he was constantly securing cash. As one deal expired, a new one would take its place. In October 1999, a day after Jackson took out a new loan on Neverland, for example, he borrowed more money from Bank of America using his song catalogs. The former application was made in Jackson's name; the latter was done under "MJ Publishing Trust." Sony has also been there for Jackson. A check of UCC's filed by Sony in California show that this sort of dealing is unusual for the music company. The only other artist's name that turns up with regularity is Luther Vandross — who still has not said a word publicly about Jackson's situation. According to filings, Jackson also borrowed money from Sony on Sept. 22, 1997, in a separate filing. In that loan, he used any money due him from a deal he'd made with Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal to start a number of business ventures. None of those businesses — including theme parks and restaurants, TV programming and films — panned out. (More about Jackson's pattern of borrowing, including his use of Neverland for cash, can be found in the Fox 411 archives from April 19.) What now for Michael Jackson? Aside from proving that Tommy Mottola is the "Devil" Jackson's immediate problems involve raising money and re-starting his career in a fruitful way. A source who's worked on private business dealings for Jackson claims "there are any number of billionaires and millionaires out there who want to do business with him." These are all potential investment projects in which Jackson would not have to invest money. (Good thing, since he doesn't have any.)"

[Jedi]

[quote] Originally posted by LawerenceF Racism does exist everywhere where one race controls the money and power. It doesn't matter which race. European whites have traditionally tried to dominate every race they've encountered. That's the reality. Good plan for self-survival. Bad plan for everyone else. Never stopped me from enjoying my life. In America they have those things and they ain't gonna give them up easily. Nor would we blacks if the table were turned. It's human nature. [/quote]I'm definitely on the same page with you here. This is my exact observation of Racism these days. I'll just add, It's the nature of the human "ego." Jedi

[David R.]

[quote]Originally posted by LawrenceF: [b]Mikey is great, great talent who's grown into a wierd little child molester. [/b][/quote]Well, I think the guy is not in touch with normal society, but I think he could sleep with children like a slumber party and not have a game of hide the pickle. I have no idea if he molested children or not, there is no evidence either way. Great post, Wildabst. Very informative. My problem with Waco Jaco is he is hanging out with Rev. Sharpton. (aka :cry: :p

[Master Zap]

[quote]I suppose Blondie's Rapture isn't disco either...[/quote]I dont know, can't recall how it goes, but Blondies "heart of glass" is definitely disco. However, I checked around w. a bunch of friends... all of them (independently, I might add) totally thinks Bowies "China Girl" is *NOT* disco. "Fashion", however, is. Beep beep! :) But China girl is a pop/rock song, not disco. /Z

[koolkid]

well,although i am not michael jacksons accountant and i dont know what his bottom line is ,really, a person or companies net worth is determined in many ways you must remember, michael jackson,per se,is a corporation not a person,michael jackson incorporated many many years ago when he was in the jackson 5,even if the corporation goes chapter 7 there are countless bail out options, as an individual,we might never be able to know jackos real worth

[-_dup1]

It's the thread that won't die!!! :D [url=http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,57640,00.html]Here\'s the latest update[/url] on the backstage maneuvering, if anyone is still interested. ;)

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

Michael is so upset that he's decided to have plastic surgeons put an angry face on him.