MARTHA STEWART

[Tedly Nightshade]

That argument is very popular with the Ms. Magazine school of american you-go-girl! "power feminism". The trouble is, while american women have been seizing onto the reins of money and power, and becoming whatever is necessary to do that, third world women who had never heard of Barbie are now measuring themselves to that standard. Stable sustainable lives for women around the world have taken irreparable damage, in the western image, while US women have been congratulating themselves on getting access to the men's club. Naomi Wolf is a big proponent of the "power feminism" view. Germaine Greer came out of publishing retirement, quite resentfully, specifically to discredit Naomi Wolf. I love bell hooks' quote about Naomi Wolf, could apply easily to Martha: "She'll run you over on the way to the makeup counter."

[koolkid]

i can see we are headed for a nice discussion on feminism

[Lee Flier]

Yeah, I have to agree Ted. I think Henry's quite right that people think attitudes like Martha's are not becoming to women... but the thing is they're not becoming to men either. :D And incidentally, I worked for a successful businesswoman for several years. She wasn't a bitch at all - she was just smart and had good ideas, knew how to treat people, and could communicate her ideas well to other people and get them fired up about it. She believed in what she was doing. Ergo, good people wanted to go to work for her and lots of people wanted to buy her stuff. Therefore, she got rich. She had competitors but had no desire to put them under or aquire them in a hostile merger. I've had other employers and clients like that too. Is there some kind of problem with this?

[koolkid]

i guess men are just as bad with sports figures, we basically worship a guy whos makin millions because he can catch a baseball,doesnt seem right

[Lee Flier]

Well, I don't have a problem with sports figures making a lot of money, or people worshipping sports figures. At least what they do doesn't hurt anybody (as long as they aren't beating people up off the field or anything :freak: ). And it's not like athletes hold a gun to anybody's head to make them buy a ticket or watch a game on TV. People like sports, they're willing to pay for sporting events and memorabilia... so more power to 'em. It's also easy to quantify achievement in sports. You don't put up the stats, you're outta there. You do put up the big numbers, you will probably get a shot at the big money. Nothing could be more fair, really. You can't lip synch for athletes. :D --Lee

[Tedly Nightshade]

I think points for [i]style[/i] ought to count in more sports. I'm rather disturbed by the state of sports in this country. A lot of people would really rather being playing themselves, than watching the boob tube. And a lot of the players look really scary to me! But I'm a sissy, so go figure. It's true though, men can get away with a hell of a lot that looks real bad on either gender, and be praised for it. Still, Joan Collins set the standard for dragon ladies since Lady MacBeth. That kind of thing is very glamorous. Cruelty adds to the glamour.

[alphajerk]

so what exactly is wrong with martha? she busted her ass to get where she is. what evil deed has she REALLY done? being OCD? a drunk? what?

[henryrobinett]

[quote]Originally posted by Lee Flier: [b]Yeah, I have to agree Ted. I think Henry's quite right that people think attitudes like Martha's are not becoming to women... but the thing is they're not becoming to men either. :D And incidentally, I worked for a successful businesswoman for several years. She wasn't a bitch at all - she was just smart and had good ideas, knew how to treat people, and could communicate her ideas well to other people and get them fired up about it.[/b][/quote]Lee, I know, I know. My wife is a successful business woman too and everybody loves her. But the guide book hasn't been written yet. It's tough to do this. So few role models. And you and I may wonder why they need friggin' role models in the first place but some people do. It's all new. Women haven't been in this situation; a position of power, at least not for a very long time, if "The First Sex" and "The Second Sex" are to be believed. Those attitudes may not be becoming of men either, but they certainly aren't criticized they way women are for exhibiting them. As a matter of fact most men are admired for being tough; a mans man.

[Hippie]

<<..As a matter of fact most men are admired for being tough; a mans man.>> Living up to other peoples expectations of yourself for 'social approval' is a sure-fire recipe for unhappiness. It'll work for a while, but sooner or later you'll have a breakdown or a mid-life crises or something because you'll realize you have never been true to yourself. John Lennon used to say that cancer and senility were products of lifelong repressed feelings.

[henryrobinett]

Yeah Hippie, you're right. I'm not saying that is right or good to be that way. I believe the reverse. I think people should treat people fairly and with dignity and respect. BUT to take Martha OUT because she's a woman who is applying the same rules as a man does isn't playing fair either. Now I don't know the details of Martha's crimes and misdemeanors and frankly speaking I'm no fan of hers. But also I may be the product of a smear campaign. It's more than possible that, over and extended period of time, somebody and sombodies, have been tearing down her reputation to the point where some people, like me, hate her and can't really, specifically, tell you why. Happens all the time. I know it's an extended period of time because I heard about a former assistant of hers who was ordered, by her, to take a sack full of kittens and drive over them with her SUV. Now I can't believe this is true. Urban Legend stuff. But this story circulated over 10 years ago.

[G. Ratte]

I have a current co-worker whose friend worked for Stewart and said she screamed at her employees pretty often. Somebody alluded earlier to her killing her ex-husband and hiding the body on an old estate. Those are pretty good rumors, eh?