Edendude Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 We really should start a club owner 'Joke' thread to help adequately vent our frustrations regarding said species, me thinks. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 It would end up being a band joke thread. Because even the dumber club owners can usually get over on the band negotiators. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 For several years, my wife owned a highly-respected (by customers AND musicians alike) live music R&R bar here in Detroit. I bounced this thread off of her for her response and she said: "Would they have been happy playing for the normal rate had they not heard the alleged information? If so, then do the gig; if not, then don't. Why cut off your nose to spite your face?" I agree with her. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Your wife should mind her own business and keep you off the internet. ; p . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 LOL Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 But seriously, Forceman... We most likely would not have taken a weeknight gig the night before playing a corporate Friday night gig, anyhow. The fact we found out it's a corporate gig, just meant we figured it might just work out well for BOTH us and the club... They get a good band for a reasonable price on short notice, and we get enough extra cash to make it worth our while taking the next morning off work from our dayjobs. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 I am dead serious. So was she. Now, if you don't like her opinion then so be it. She knows that scene brutally well. I'm out of here. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 18, 2004 Author Share Posted November 18, 2004 Well... It certainly could be considered a 'serious' offense to let a former 'club owner' into the Lowdown realm. I'll give you that much. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2fat Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Having a day job makes it so much easier to say "no thank you". Me, I've found its best to not say no in so many words; better to ask for too much money or be booked "out of town". Once I was asked by a law school professor at nearby SIUC how much our Cajun band would charge to play for two hours at the opening of their new building. I told him $1,000, (seemed like a nice round number), and received one of the great pleasures of my life when he blinked and said "how much?" He hired us. www.ethertonswitch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 18, 2004 Share Posted November 18, 2004 Once a negotiation has headed down a certain path it usually only creates bad feelings should one try to change the path, regardless of intentions, fairness, etc. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2fat Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I am unfailingly polite in my negotiations, even with lawyers. This is because of my innate modesty and humility, which have been pointed out in another thread. www.ethertonswitch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tarkus Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Always give the bar the option: $200 per man or the original $100 plus 10% of the cash register during performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 I don't play for a living (I barely make a cent). My first thought was like forceman's wife - what if you didn't know? The follow-up with this is how much do you want to play? After reading the responses from folks in the "music business", I understand a bit better. You do know, so you have to decide. You also have to protect yourself from being walked on. And it sounds like giving up the gig wouldn't be the end of the world for you. Since you have a relationship with this place, you should be able to hold for your price politely but firmly, and they should understand (even if they aren't happy about it). If not, that's their problem. Hey forceman, you and your wife should write a book. I suspect that you and your wife respected the various people you dealt with (at least to start). Tom www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lug Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 From a club owner's perspective, a band is like a pile of napkins. He has to buy napkins for a party but just because the party is paying more does not necessarily mean he's gonna pay more for the napkins. If he wants to get better napkins(read higher profile band) then he might because of the special occation. A band should premium charge if a large percentage of the audience shows up because they are playing. There are several band in my area that have a several hundred person extra draw wherever they play. These guys charge a much higher fee than the average band int the area, irregardless of their talent level. You can stop now -jeremyc STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 If you said you'd do the gig for a price, then do the gig. Be reliable. Chalk this up as experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Tom... If we had not known it was a corporate gig, I can say with 99% certainty that we would NOT have taken the gig, as I said to Forceman. Just not worth having to get up at six the next morning for our dayjobs after lugging gear home at 3 in the morning, for any of us in the band. If we had been given a better rate to play the gig, it would have made it worthwhile for us all to take the morning off from our dayjobs. That's why we offered to play it for $200 per man. And... Coincidentally, we are booked to play that corporate gig in the octagonal joint I mentioned, the very next night. And for our corporate party rate with no questions asked. We do have a good relationship with the establishment in question... We had an email from one of the owners yesterday (not the entertainment manager we were dealing with about this gig). He was asking us if we could book-in for a series of upcoming gigs at the club, but that he wanted to ask if we had increased our rate to $200 per man on weekends. And he mentioned that the entertainment manager had told him we were asking $200 for the corporate gig, so he just wanted to double check if we had increased our rates in general. We told the owner we'd love to play the upcoming gigs for the regular rate, and we also explained the situation with the weeknight corporate gig and our fee of $200 per man for that one. We are waiting to hear back from them again. So it's not like we aren't still talking with the club, or that they have cut us off from future bookings. But even if it came to that, it would not matter. Two other very popular clubs in the city have just asked us to Book-in for a series of gigs in the New Year. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Getz... We did not agree to play the gig at all, and we still have not. We simply asked them for a double rate when they asked us if we 'wanted' to play the gig. One thing we would NEVER do is ask for more cash once we had already agreed to play a gig for the regular rate. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted November 19, 2004 Share Posted November 19, 2004 Originally posted by Edendude: One thing we would NEVER do is ask for more cash once we had already agreed to play a gig for the regular rate.Apologies, I misread. Is this the club you do regular gigs at? If so, do the gig at your regular rate or you may no longer be the regular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 19, 2004 Author Share Posted November 19, 2004 Yes, it's one of the clubs we play regular weekend gigs at. Just rec'd another booking from them by email, about twenty seconds ago! I shit thee not! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Force Posted November 20, 2004 Share Posted November 20, 2004 Originally posted by Tom Capasso: Hey forceman, you and your wife should write a book. I suspect that you and your wife respected the various people you dealt with (at least to start). TomHi Tom! We are great friends with many, many musicians. Many are professional--some have even charted. Music is a rough business. The bar business is brutal. One NEVER knows how a night is gonna be... My wife paid all musicians fairly--regardless of the door or the bar. And this is why the musicians liked her--she was fair and honest. She told them (us) the facts and they respected her for it. Still do. Fellow musicians--if you are gigging for coin: quit thinking of the owner as an enemy, but rather as how you can help them stay in business. I guarantee you--you will not only gain their respect but get follow on gig as well. With a better percentage of the pot. Been there, done that, bought the tee-shirt. Regards. Steve Force, Durham, North Carolina -------- My Professional Websites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 20, 2004 Author Share Posted November 20, 2004 Forceman said... "Fellow musicians--if you are gigging for coin: quit thinking of the owner as an enemy, but rather as how you can help them stay in business. I guarantee you--you will not only gain their respect but get follow on gig as well. With a better percentage of the pot." While I agree that thinking of the club owner as an enemy is a very bad idea, and that being willing to help a club owner stay in business is a good idea, the outcome of being earnest is not always as rosey as Forceman would have you believe. I too have a few t-shirts left over from playing the club circuit with many bands. I am not cynical enough to suggest that all or most club owners are unsrcupulous, but I can assure you that, in my experience, its a 50/50 split between the honorable ones and the greasy bastards who will glady take advantage whenever they can. So by all means treat all club owners with fairness and respect, but watch your back! Believing that ALL club owners will reciprocate your sense of decency and honesty is highly idealistic. And Forceman... This is no reflection on your wife, please believe me. I'm sure she was the kind of club owner we wish we could all work for at every club and at every gig. I know I do! She sounds like a real solid to me. We need more of those! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Just as a follow up and a happy ending... The club called back and offered us $150 per man for the Thursday night corporate gig that was in question, and booked us for the following Saturday and the one after that, too. Guess we're doing something right. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Not really. You should have asked for THREE hundred - and walked away with TWO ; } , kid, cajole> . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 24, 2004 Author Share Posted November 24, 2004 Greenboy... Would like some extra work on the side in band management and/or agency representation? My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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