Edendude Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I was just talking to a guy who works at the local Eden dealer. He's a bass player, and he has a pair of Eden MBX 2x10 wedge cabs and wants to sell one of them, because he finds one is more than enough. It's 10 lbs lighter than my Eden D210T cab, and it uses the same drivers as the Eden D210XLT cab, which sound better and have higher power rating. I have a gig tonight, so the guy's gonna let me try it out in the live setting tonight. I can get it for a VERY reasonable price, since he obviously acquired both of his cabs for cost. Anyone here have any experience with these Eden Wedge cabs... http://www.eden-electronics.com/products/cabs/indiv/images/cabspicd210mbx.jpg My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCunha Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Are you going to use it as a monitor or as part of your rig with it on the floor pointed up at you? If it is the later where are you going to put your head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Yes... I'm going to use it placed on the floor, monitor-style. Side-wash and facing the drummer and I. My GK 1001RB head is in a rather large padded two-space rack box that's about 19 inches deep. So I plan to rest the head against the back of the sloped wedge cab. This way the face of the head should be fairly handy at the top of the wedge. I'm really liking the idea of a 50 lb cab with lots of power-handling and efficiency, that can also be angled at my head for optimum monitoring and control of my stage sound. And of course the price is right. I should be able to get it for around $300. Not bad for a 350 watt Eden 2x10 cab with XLT drivers, me thinks. That's the theory, anyhow. If it doesn't work I may rig up some kind of portable stand for my head. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 I've sloped my rack like that. The Carvin 210 I use is of the wedge design. I actually use it, when I can, up off the floor though. I like it better that way if its the main and only bass support (when there's no bass in the PA). That way its covering the room and stage. Even with PA bass support, the wedge approach hasn't really excited some drummers all that much unless you have a stage setup that puts you in the right place for them. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Yeah... There's a corner right behind me and to my left on the stage at The G-Spot, so the wedge should be aimed right at both the drummer and I, and be directed out toward the house, too. And I will be using it alone without any PA support, in a small to medium-sized club. I took the afternoon off from work to go pick it up and experiment with it for awhile here at home. After trying both my Eden WT-300 and GK 1001RB head, and after playing around and sculpting the mids in a myriad of different configurations, I finally managed to get a nice big fat and punchy tone by using the GK head with a fair amount of both upper and lower mids sculpted out, and with the Jazz Bass. It still can't match the low end extension of my 4x10 cab, however, although I'd didn't really expect it to. I'm running the GK head with both the input gain and the output side on about 3 o'lock. But with lots of clean power and the mids pulled out and the bass and treble flat, I'm not seeing any clipping on the pre-amp or the power amp sides. And no farting from the cab, despite the high volume. I wanted to see where the limits were volume wise, so I won't step over that line in performance. So at least I have a tone I can live with from it now. But the real test will be the live show tonight. Sure hope this works out, because this sucker is a pleasure to lift and load, compared to either of my present cabs. http://www.nova4x4.com/uploads/111004/edenmbx.jpg My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 The bad thing about the wedge-on-the-floor way (when there is no other source) is that the mids and highs are heading straight for the ceiling. So any audience more than 10 feet out is getting a mush of reflected, bounced-multiple-times sound - and no direct sound. That's not such a problem onstage usually, because you are close to the direct source. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 Yes, understood... Some experimenting at soundcheck will be in order for sure. Although the G-Spot is a VERY odd shaped room to begin with. None of the walls are square to each other, because the building is actually wedge-shaped. It's built where two streets downtown converge at a 'Y' intersection. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2fat Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Does that help with standing waves? Nice looking rig BTW. www.ethertonswitch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Non-RECTANGULAR rooms - wedge-shaped - can be a real boon if you are pointed into them in the correct direction. And often not bad from the other direction either. Sound firing into ceilings as a main (and/or only) source though - that's just SUCKage no matter what. That's why PA horns of the various configs, and vertical arrays exist. To control beaming in the vertical direction. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 way2fat: Does that help with standing waves?Nope. Standing waves are a given, the variables being room dimensions (h & w & d, simplified), and the freq/wavelength of each sound/partial. And the speed of sound of course, which varies slightly at different altitudes and humidities. But the room WILL have standing waves no matter what. One can move themselves or a cab, and that will change which freqs interact in what spots, but other than that, there are those three primary resonances based on the three room dimensions that can't be changed without remodeling or wrecking ball. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 10, 2004 Author Share Posted November 10, 2004 I may end up standing the cab on it's end. The combination of the bright Jazz Bass, bright Eden Horn, and bright GK head AND having the thing aimed at my face may be too much anyhow. My main reasons for thinking about buying it are the light weight, high volume capability, and the price. The wedge shape may prove to be not particularly useful. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 10, 2004 Share Posted November 10, 2004 Well, it can be. I've used mine at jams that way and it worked out great. Just depends on the other circumstances we've discussed. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Capasso Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I like cheese on my wedges. That photo of the afternoon setup is funny - it looks like the thing fell over. Enough silliness - hope it works out for you (and that the gig goes well). Looking forward to the report. Tom P.S. I had to step up and make the cheese comment because Bump is beginning a few weeks of playing Halo.... www.stoneflyrocks.com Acoustic Color Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
way2fat Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I hate wedgies. www.ethertonswitch.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 If you are worried about standing waves, you need a stack. http://members.aol.com/jeremyzone1/standingwave.JPG Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 http://www.splosh.co.uk/wedgies.jpghttp://www.swim-suits.net/images/thongcov.jpg . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Post gig update... I have a lot of faith in Eden gear, but I must say that even I was surprised by how well this little cab performed at the gig last night. The club was 75% capacity for most of the night, and we played LOUD! I guess the biggest surprise was how much low end the litte cab produced in the real-world gigging environment. It literally rivalled my 4x10 cab, but I think I probably had it running flat out and in the margins (pre-fart) to achieve this. My 4x10 cab would do the same and still have some serious umph left in reserve. But not too shabby for 50% as much driver surface, me thinks. I kept the cab set up on the floor as a wedge the whole night. And I was fortunate enough to have one of our 'Lowdown brethren' from this message board show up and give me some feedback from the audience. With his help and ears, I ended up dialing back in all the mids I had sculpted out at home in the afternoon. Within the context of my LOUD band, those mids made all the difference as to how well I was cutting through the mix. So a big thumbs up from me on the Eden D210MBX bass cab. I'm gonna call the guy right now and offer him what I think it's worth to me to have the convenience of not having to lug my 4x10 around to get a big sound. It's not something I really 'need' so I'm just going to walk away if he doesn't accept my offer. My drummer has just ordered one of those 'Taye Go-Kit' mini setups, so it sure will be fun to be known around town as the big sounding rhythm section with the invisible stage set-up, if I buy this little cab. Oh and... Here's the cab's specs for anyone who might be interested... D210MBX Specs Speakers EC-106O XL Cast Frame Tweeters E-2700 Cast Bell Crossover 3.5KHz @ 18dB Power Handling 350W RMS Frequency Response 62Hz - 14KHz Sensitivity 103dB SPL Impedance 4-8 ohms Dimensions 23w x 17h x 15d Weight 50 LBS My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 I'm still dicking around and trying to decide whether to let GAS get the best of me. Help me out here... I just did a side by side A/B comparison with my Eden D210T cab and the Eden D210MBX cab. I even angled my D210T cab back on blocks to make the comparison as fair as possible. They actually sound remarkably similar, and since the MBX is an 8 ohm unit, and my D210T is 4 ohms (I wired it back to the factory wiring configuration today) my cab actually has some advantage in being able to draw bigtime clean dynamic power off the 540 watt @ 4 ohm GK head. So... Although I can get the MBX cab for probably about one third of it's original retail price, I'd really be buying it only for the convenience of the light weight, lack of bulkiness, and the tilt-back wedge design. What would you do?! http://www.nova4x4.com/uploads/111104/cabcomparison.jpg My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 I never realized how bad they compromised the interior space of that Eden wedge (didn't look for the measurements recently). But seeing them side by side, it doesn't matter WHAT woofers are in that wedge, it's too frickin' small to be a standalone cab, in my book anyway. My Carvin 210 wedge hardly loses any interior space as compared to the non-wedge one. It models almost identically for midbass hump. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 True about the loss of interior volume... Although that photo is deceptive, since the MBX is desgined to sit on the floor and my D210T is resting on it's bottom/rear corner. Specifically the MBX loses 3.5 inches of depth, plus whatever amount of volume is lost by the angled cut. I'd estimate it probably loses about 30-35% of it's interior volume. However... Hearing is believing! You cannot hear a loss of low end, compared to the larger D210T cab. The XL woofers must be making up for the lack of interior air volume somehow, as far as I can guess. It's really very surprising. But back to my question... Assuming no real audible difference, would you buy this cab used at one third of it's original retail price? The cab is in showroom condition. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 Yes, it's magic. Yep yep yep. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 11, 2004 Share Posted November 11, 2004 ADDENDUM: The laws of physics once again have been neatly circumvented by the pixies at Eden. Actually it isn't magic - they've just discovered some quantum mechanics tricks that allows their cabinets to use extra air space inside of GAS giants to increase the internal volume of a cab - and tachyon tunneling through t-space so that the group delay and phase shifting is minimal. Then, they've attached special modules to the back of each driver that are in fact antimatter-driven containment tanks holding mini black holes in near-stasis. This allows them to bend the nearby gravitational fields just enough to affect all Thiele-Small measurements so that the drivers can go twice as low and twice as hard in 1/4 the space. Eden performed a great engineering workforce advancement when they traded elves to Santa in return for some errant pixies that had mistaken the North Pole for a resort area in another galactic quadrant. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 11, 2004 Author Share Posted November 11, 2004 Yeah, that's it! But seriously... I'd really like to know how they compensate for the loss of cab volume, and end up with such a big sounding cab. And as my witness, the other Lowdowner who was at out show last night might show up and tell you what he was hearing from out in the FOH. (lowfreq' where are you, dude?) He was as genuinely surprised as I was, I think. But you raise another question that I have always wondered about... How does the resonant effect of a raised plywood stage factor into the way our bass rigs sound on stage? Certain stages seem to add a lot of low end and midbass in my experience. And naturally sometimes it's a nightmare, and other times it seems to be of benefit, depending where the humps fall in the EQing equation. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 Between my lack of GAS immunity, the fact the guy took my offer of $300, and Greenboy's revelation about the magical Eden pixies... I succumbed and bought the cab. Ahhhhh...No more back-breaking loading and lugging. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbroni Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I'd really like to know how they compensate for the loss of cab volume, and end up with such a big sounding cab. In my experience its the low mids that make amps sound big not the extreme lows. But with playing around with some amp modeling software here and there, I have found that tuning the ports has more effect than internal volume on freq response. However, there is a limit and that CAB looks small. I have metro 210 it sounds massive, but has little more space inside. Together all sing their different songs in union - the Uni-verse. My Current Project Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 I can barely deal with my Carvin wedge because I do like funamental and first overtone content. I'm thinking of dividing the internal space in it and changing to a deep sub driver and a sealed-enclosure midbass driver (such as the ones in my 1832 Extreme) to make it a true extended range cab. I'm just SPOILED. ...You can fake a lot of depth with lower mids and midbass, but there's nothing like having an extra octave or more of extension down into the true bass range. This is probably less of an issue to others, but I love TRUE low end - onstage and in the house. I heard a couple different players remark that the Eden wedge was a nice auxillary floor monitor, but maybe not so fulfilling as a single cab. But for people with hard portages I can understand why they would want to consider something smaller. I know I couldn't convince myself it was XST or an XLT tone. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 playing around with some amp modeling software here and there, I have found that tuning the ports has more effect than internal volume on freq response -Well, yes and no. The two are both parts of the same equation, and with your various drivers it can go either way, due to Qms, etc... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 Hmm, finally managed to get some dimensions - it isn't that different than mine - it's that the other cab is pretty big for a 210. (Damn, they somehow managed to once again de-improve the Eden website). . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted November 12, 2004 Author Share Posted November 12, 2004 I think the photo above was very deceptive, because of the angles involved and that particular perspective. I can see why the MBX would seem shockingly small compared to the D210T in that shot. Here's a couple of shots of the MBX stacked on top of the D210T for a less deceiving view... http://www.nova4x4.com/uploads/111104/cabcab.jpg http://www.nova4x4.com/uploads/111104/cabcab02.jpg But the thing that really sold me on this cab was being able to take it out to the club we play most often, and put it through it's paces for what turned out to be three one hour long sets, with a room 75% full, and pumping out lots of volume. Not very often do many of us get to test drive gear in this way before purchasing it. And if I play larger rooms and need more, it's not like I have a shortage of other cabs to bring things up to snuff. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g. Posted November 12, 2004 Share Posted November 12, 2004 By that bottom photo, it's look like a fair amount more box is cut away than on mine. What are your two measurements from corners to wher the monitor slant starts? . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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