politically incorrect doomed to reruns.

[alphajerk]

so anyone see bill mahers last show? i didnt get a chance to see it being in a session but my wife told me about it. last friday i think.... but did anyone even notice? i've been too damn busy to remember to post anything about it. not that it mattered anyways, network killed it with commercials to begin with making it hard to watch 5 minutes of the show between 5 minutes of commercials.... almost like they had to equal the deprogramming with the same brainwashing commercialistic bullshit. i cant imagine many people disagreeing with the show. bill ALWAYS had several sides represented every night. there was definately no preaching to any choirs on the show. you might not agree with bill himself but im sure you might find something in one of the 4 panelists of agreement. was this a politically motivated cancellation? it was one of the few intellectual stimulating shows on tv. i would LOVE to see his show on HBO. uncensored and no commercial interruptions.... hour long.

[Anderton]

I'd be willing to bet he's already negotiating a contract with another network.

[koolkid]

he said what he was thinking and thats wrong in america, i hope he can turn it around for himself

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

A couple of years ago they moved it to 12:35 AM here on the west coast and I stopped watching. Too bad because it was a good show. I think Maher's remarks about the terrorists hurt the advertizing dollars and it killed the show. I think that remark was goofy, but the show was called Politically Incorrect, right ? On the other hand, he said it because he knew it would be really controversial and get people worked up.It was a calculated effort to draw attention to the show and it backfired.

[alphajerk]

the later time was also a bitch. it should be on at 11:30pm right after the news. the show kicked total ass when it was on comedy central. i was pissed when it moved to abc [cbs? who fucking cares, same shit] he said "unpopular" things but definately things that NEED to be said. thats why im wondering if there was "pressure" outside advertising dollars to cancel it.

[koolkid]

it just goes to show what a joke the media in this country is turning out to be..politically incorrect..you got a better chance of seeing god than to see or hear anything remotely distasteful on primetime let alone anything that borders on heretical imagine if the british had tv in 1776,i wonder how we would see ourselves??

[alphajerk]

distasteful? dissentful maybe.

[Chip McDonald]

What an ironic end to a show called "Politically Incorrect". Maher falls into a category of people I call "Un-apologetic Straight-Shooters": Maher, Howard Stern, Dennis Rodman, Madonna, examples of people who speak exactly what's on their mind and don't care how it plays out. That's a very natural space to be in IMO; unfortunately, everyone has some opinion that is likely to be considered "far out", or "non-mainstream". It was really a matter of time. He's really been miscronstrued thought, IMO.... HBO would be perfect for him. They should bring back Chris Rock as well, I heard his show is gone now as well? Dennis Miller's, too? I've got a tv and cable, I just don't use it I suppose....

[koolkid]

[quote]Originally posted by alphajerk: [b]distasteful? dissentful maybe.[/b][/quote]right on

[steadyb]

The last show was very cool, I thought. He did a great bluff proposal to Arianna Huffington, asking her to be his first guest on his new show. My guess he'll be back within a year on cable. I agree...[i]WAY[/i] too many commercials...could've been a great 1-hour show easy.

[strat0124]

I've always loved the show but rarely get to watch it. I came down hard on him when he said the infamous line about cowardice, in reference to shooting missiles rather than actually fighting mano mano. But after lots of aftershocks and re-self-examination, I have to agree with him. In America we like the notion of war, but not the realities. It boosts patriotism, gives us all something to rally around the flag about. But the moment we see cargo planes with stacked coffins, all that will change to an extent. I think all of us support the troops, who are really and truly blue collar working Americans, people we identify with. We may not support the folks talking tough, who send folks to back up tough talk, while they sit in A/C and watch Fox news. We ought to question ANY leader of ANY party anytime we send our young men and women to fight in a foreign land. We ought to be outraged at any hint of our elected leaders doing wrong, and be vocal about it. For that reason, among others, Bill Mayer is on target.

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

Maher said the terrorists were brave, and not cowards. Bullshit. If they were so brave then why didn't their network take responsibility for their attacks on 9/11. Instead they scurried into their caves like little rats to live off of their moldy cheese. We will hunt them down and make them pay like the little bitchs they are. Japan and Germany underestimated us too....bad decision in hindsight.

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by SteveRB: [b]Maher said the terrorists were brave, and not cowards. Bullshit. If they were so brave then why didn't their network take responsibility for their attacks on 9/11. Instead they scurried into their caves like little rats to live off of their moldy cheese. We will hunt them down and make them pay like the little bitchs they are. Japan and Germany underestimated us too....bad decision in hindsight.[/b][/quote]Japan and Germany had a somewhat equivelant fighting force of ours......clearly the Afghan warlords we shot up weren't up to that standard. Again, revisit Mayers statement without emotional connection, and you might see it a bit differently. I totally agree with you about hunting these "evil doers" down. However its not as simplistic as all that. If we all were totally honest, we'd admit that empire building corporate greed backed by a powerful militaristic nation may have contributed to the hate those folks have for us. I don't believe the catch phrase that they hate freedom itself, otherwise Canada would've been a target, as would other nations. Emotions aside, our governments foreign policies contributed to this sad tragedy. Right or wrong. This is a war that will never end if we continue our fossil fuel exploitation of other countries. Just imagine if another country imposed its military might and politcal strong arm tactics to secure Americas fossil fuels????? There'd be shit blowing up left and right if that were the case. Is that so hard to see?

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

Geenard- I still believe that not accounting for their actions was not brave. Global television and print media would have gladly aired their rational for attempting to kill 20 or 30,000 Americans. If they are standing on the moral highground they should be shouting it loudly. I still believe Maher only said provocative things to help his fledgling ratings. I don't believe for a minute that he actually believed what he said, and he even tried to backtrack later and say he was misunderstood. Didn't work.

[strat0124]

[quote]Originally posted by SteveRB: [b]Geenard- I still believe that not accounting for their actions was not brave. Global television and print media would have gladly aired their rational for attempting to kill 20 or 30,000 Americans. If they are standing on the moral highground they should be shouting it loudly. I still believe Maher only said provocative things to help his fledgling ratings. I don't believe for a minute that he actually believed what he said, and he even tried to backtrack later and say he was misunderstood. Didn't work.[/b][/quote]If we are assuming its not brave to take your own life to assure mutual destruction of your enemies, I guess us Texans have to give up our hero worship of Jim Bowie. (NOT!) However you're not really getting past the emotional side of Mayers comments, and I'm with you, it took me a while to get past them. However, getting aired on TV to proclaim whatever isn't really a measure of bravery. To me thats glamorizing the evil we don't want on TV. No matter if we TOTALLY DESPISE the act the terrorists did, it could have never been acomplished by noncommitted unfocused individuals, no matter how very much I think they were indeed chicken shit bastards for what they did. Moral high ground is subjective as well. They attacked symbols of our world might, with no regard to the collateral (I hate using that term after McViegh demonized it) damage. I see no easy solution given the way our world is set up and running. Nothing but more pain....sadly.

[Charlie-brm]

[quote]Originally posted by SteveRB: [b]Maher said the terrorists were brave, and not cowards. Bullshit. If they were so brave then why didn't their network take responsibility for their attacks on 9/11. Instead they scurried into their caves like little rats to live off of their moldy cheese. We will hunt them down and make them pay like the little bitchs they are.[/b][/quote]He was referring to the individuals who were the skyjackers, not Al-Qaeda. Living in North America for a year, conducting a fairly normal life as a cover, knowing you are expected to die on a date circled on a calendar, takes bravery, ie. overcoming fear. [quote][b] Japan and Germany underestimated us too....bad decision in hindsight.[/b][/quote]They estimated the U.S. correctly. Here's a hot flash, the war in Europe started in Sept. 1939. Germany was trying to break Britain and knew they could count on the U.S. to stay within its isolationism. And that was not government intervention but the people's position. Roosevelt knew he didn't have the support of the people to declare war on Germany in 1939, 40, 41. Read how he repeatedly misled the public while he found ways to help Britain, for a price. [url=http://www.blancmange.net/tmh/articles/chamberl.html]FDR quotes - places and dates[/url] And how subversion was used by the allies to move the U.S. to war: [quote]April 1940 - British Security Coordination office was established by Canadian-born William S. Stephenson, code-named Intrepid, (the inspiration for Ian Fleming's James Bond) who arrived in the United States to "assure sufficient aid for Britain, to counter the enemy's subversive plans throughout the Western Hemisphere and eventually to bring the United States into the War" (Thomas Mahl, Desperate Deception, p.10). The BSC would establish ties with the FBI and State Department and pushed the creation of the Coordinator of Information by July 1941 that became the Office of Strategic Services in June 1942. The British recruited the help of the Fight For Freedom Committee, Walter Lippmann, Arthur Hayes Sulzberger, Henry Luce, using the the polling organization Market Analysts, Inc. to create public support for intervention, attacked isolationist Congressman Hamilton Fish and provided mistresses to Senator Arthur Vandenberg, all to get US aid for Britain.[/quote]The Japanese also correctly made the same conclusion. War did not start Dec. 1941, which is the impression given by many so called history sites. But you go get them, tiger.

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by Geenard Skeenard: [b][QUOTE]Japan and Germany had a somewhat equivelant fighting force of ours......clearly the Afghan warlords we shot up weren't up to that standard. Again, revisit Mayers statement without emotional connection, and you might see it a bit differently. I totally agree with you about hunting these "evil doers" down. However its not as simplistic as all that. If we all were totally honest, we'd admit that empire building corporate greed backed by a powerful militaristic nation may have contributed to the hate those folks have for us. I don't believe the catch phrase that they hate freedom itself, otherwise Canada would've been a target, as would other nations. Emotions aside, our governments foreign policies contributed to this sad tragedy. Right or wrong. This is a war that will never end if we continue our fossil fuel exploitation of other countries. Just imagine if another country imposed its military might and politcal strong arm tactics to secure Americas fossil fuels????? There'd be shit blowing up left and right if that were the case. Is that so hard to see?[/b][/quote]No, it's really not. Your above statements hit the nail on the head. Those are not exactly just "peacekeeping" forces we have in Saudi Arabia. The Russians didn't come swooping down into Kabul at the last moment to occupy the city for no apparent reason or last-minute glory (think pipeline and you'll have the motivation).

[sbrock1san.rr.com]

:rolleyes:

[griff1096]

so you think that these men who flew into the WTC did so to protect the pipelines?? Or do you think that the USA went after them to get the pipelines? I'm not following you.

[Eric Worthington]

I'm going to miss the show. I hope Comedy Central picks it back up. They could have the Daily Show, followed by Politically Incorrect. It would be a great alternative to the network and idiotic local news shows. I think Bill Maher's comment about the use of the word "coward" was misplayed in the media. The gist of his point wasn't really about U.S. cowardice. His point had to do with how our government persists in using Orwellian wordplay. Governments we don't like are always "regimes" and any attack by any enemy is "cowardly." But regardless, his point was irrelevant. It doesn't make any fucking difference whether you agree with him or not, in terms of what the show is. There are dissenting opinions on any topic, and his show was designed to clear out the bullshit, and have everyone say what they really mean. And if a group gets all hot bothered, then, this being America, the proper response is to send a representative to appear on the show and speak their view. Not boycott the show! As Voltaire (who was not American.....hmmm....)said, "I may deplore what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it." I'm not sure how many Americans really believe that, when forced to put it in practice. If a neo-Nazi wants to speak a bunch of trash, he can do so. We can then reply. There's no need to suppress thoughts, because any and every one can respond in kind. America, unfortunately, is full of pussies. And would-be Fascists. The idea of boycotting a show, to campaign to remove it, to in effect gag a voice, is not a proper American response; but it is a very effective Fascist repsonse. Last fall, I travelled (literally) around the country. In the major markets, Politically Incorrect (PI) was on right after Nightline. But in the smaller markets, in most cases, PI was either not on at all, or after Nightline they'd show like Oprah, or an hour of infomercial, THEN PI. They just buried it. You think 12:05 AM is late to catch a show, how about like 1:30? It's pathetic. And it's not just the fault of all the affiliates. It's also all those redneck communities, which believe me, are not confined to any geographic region. It's can be just as frightening to be somewhere in the middle Alabama as in Montana or Pennsylvania (from the Gulf Stream waters to that shotgun shack in Idaho). We always talk about how important our freedoms are, and how many have fought and died to preserve those freedoms, but we're afraid of them. A nation of pussies.

[KenElevenShadows]

[quote]Originally posted by griff1096: [b]so you think that these men who flew into the WTC did so to protect the pipelines?? Or do you think that the USA went after them to get the pipelines? I'm not following you.[/b][/quote]I don't know if I'd phrase it as simply for "protecting the pipelines". It's much more than that. First of all, the people who flew planes into the WTC are extremists, making their cause a bit more difficult to analyze, especially since they're not vocal about their cause. But that said, much of it has to do with U.S. ("infidel") occupation of Saudi Arabia and the controlling of the oil, the corruption of the royal family, their rage over our country spending billions on Israel's military to bomb the f*** out of the Palestinians, and other issues, such as U.S. intervention in Iraq (severe sanctions which have greatly harmed Iraqis, supporting asshole dictators, etc.). I also want to emphasize here that the U.S. has been a major player in the quest for oil and so forth, and has been a MAJOR force in Middle East politics. I am getting this following information directly from an old article in Newsweek -- between 1980 and now, the U.S. has committed acts of war against Iraq, Irran, Libya, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan, Iran, Somalia, and Afghanistan. All Muslim countries, by the way. Also with 1980 and now, the United States has attempted to overthrow or has overthrown the governments of Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Sudan, Libya, and obviously Afghanistan. The U.S. has attempted to assassinate Egypt's Gamal Abdel Nasser, Iraq's Saddam Hussein, Libya's Muammar Khadaffi, Iran's clerical leadership, and the Taliban's leadership. The U.S. has funded literally billions of dollars to Israel's military, which has cracked down hard on Palestinians. The U.S., with Britain, has created sanctions on Iraq, which the United Nations claims has caused the death of 500,000 Iraqi children, and another 500,000 adults due to disease (to which allegedly the former U.S. Secretary of State M. Albright replied when faced with these figures, "It is a price worth paying."). -- Regarding the pipeline, historically, countries have been jockeying to put a pipeline through to the sea from Central Asia. In the spring of 2001, Unocal offered a low bid to build a pipeline to export Central Asian oil (from the Caspian basin). Osama bin Laden advised the Taliban rulers to turn down this low bid in favor of an Argentinian company, which they did. Immediately, the U.S. cut off aid to the Taliban (yes, the U.S. had been giving money to the Taliban, partially for their war on opium). Russia had been jockeying to put the pipeline through more "Russian-friendly" territory, or in other words, not Pakistan. The 9/11 disaster accelerated everyone's involvement in Afghanistan, certainly our own country's involvement. While Bush was bombing the hell out of Afghanistan, chasing after the Taliban and Al-Qaeda, Russia somehow managed to outfox us and basically just waltz into Kabul. Russia had been formerly arming and financing the Northern Alliance since around 1994-5, and had maintained troops in bordering Tajikstan. Russia simply ordered the Northern Alliance to rush into Kabul, which was free from the fleeing Taliban, thus occupying Kabul and putting a major crimp on the Americans controlling Afghanistan completely. Even as of now, the Northern Alliance controls Afghanistan's defense, interior, and foreign affairs, and still control Kabul, the capital, in what Russia and the Northern Alliance claim are "peacekeeping" troops. Sound familiar? We have "peacekeeping troops" in Saudi Arabia. So, to answer your question, I don't think that the U.S. specifically went after Afghanistan to obtain control of the pipelines, but one can be fairly certain that the administration/Unocal 1.) felt rebuked by the Taliban's denial of the pipeline after supplying them with $$, and 2.) now had a good reason to go in there and try and establish control over the pipeline while trying to destroy the Taliban/Al-Qaeda. Now, with the Russians in effect controlling Northern Afghanistan, including Kabul (something they had tried to do throughout the '80s with their war on Afghanistan), the diplomatic "wrestling" over ultimate control over the pipeline will become very interesting.

[BP3]

[quote]Originally posted by Anderton: [b]I'd be willing to bet he's already negotiating a contract with another network.[/b][/quote]I'd like to see him back at Comedy Central. I thought the show lost a lot of it's edge when it moved to ABC. The the DC affiliate stopped airing the show, so for me the last show was quite a while ago. HBO would be fine too.

[Anderton]

Ken, the reason your posts are always welcome is because they combine research with a dispassionate presentation. Please clone yourself.

[lrossmusic]

[quote] [b]Ken, the reason your posts are always welcome is because they combine research with a dispassionate presentation. Please clone yourself.[/b] [/quote]I'll second that. :thu:

[Chip McDonald]

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Maher was cancelled because he was seen as too much of a loose cannon by "the Powers That Be". That was a great show, whether you like Maher or not, because it was the only show on tv where some of the people on the show didn't have direct ties to politics and likewise actually got views aired on NATIONAL TELEVISION that were not "approved for citizen dissemination". A lot of pointedly critical things were said on that show about the way politics in our society works today, and I'm sure that made a LOT of people upset, whose companies who were spending not money on advertising BUT money on *political campaigns*...

[Duhduh]

[quote]Originally posted by Eric Worthington: [b]As Voltaire (who was not American.....hmmm....)said, "I may deplore what you say but I will defend to death your right to say it." I'm not sure how many Americans really believe that, when forced to put it in practice. If a neo-Nazi wants to speak a bunch of trash, he can do so. We can then reply. There's no need to suppress thoughts, because any and every one can respond in kind. America, unfortunately, is full of pussies. And would-be Fascists. The idea of boycotting a show, to campaign to remove it, to in effect gag a voice, is not a proper American response; but it is a very effective Fascist repsonse. We always talk about how important our freedoms are, and how many have fought and died to preserve those freedoms, but we're afraid of them. A nation of pussies.[/b][/quote]It seems to me that its always been this way.

[Tedly Nightshade]

Thank you Ken.

[Brian T]

[quote]Originally posted by Charlie-brm: [b][/quote]He was referring to the individuals who were the skyjackers, not Al-Qaeda. Living in North America for a year, conducting a fairly normal life as a cover, knowing you are expected to die on a date circled on a calendar, takes bravery, ie. overcoming fear. [/b][/QUOTE] I have this "a day in the life" mental image I see when I think of the hijackers. I see them walking down the jetway and into the cabin, than hanging a right to go down the aisle to their seats. As they walk down the aisle, there's the little gray haired grandma on the way to see her grandkids, and the young pregnant mother with her 3 year old playing beside her and so on and so on. So the terrorist walks down the aisle and returns the smiles from these people, says "Excuse me" as he gets in his seat, all the while thinking "I'm going to crash all you damned infidel pigs into the side of a building at 450MPH in about 20 minutes". Putrid sacks of human dung, if you ask me. Brave? Not hardly. Criminally insane? Yup. Maher was an idiot for saying what he did *when* he did, whatever he actually meant to communicate. WThe show was thought provoking while it lasted. But you don't bad mouth someone at their own funeral, and as Bill learned, you don't say complimentary things about terrorists who just cold bloodedly killed 3000 innocent people. It doesn't matter what you meant, it just ain't all that smart. Regards, Brian T

[koolkid]

[quote]Originally posted by gbtank@home.com: [b] [quote]Originally posted by Charlie-brm: [b][/quote]He was referring to the individuals who were the skyjackers, not Al-Qaeda. Living in North America for a year, conducting a fairly normal life as a cover, knowing you are expected to die on a date circled on a calendar, takes bravery, ie. overcoming fear. [/b][/quote]I have this "a day in the life" mental image I see when I think of the hijackers. I see them walking down the jetway and into the cabin, than hanging a right to go down the aisle to their seats. As they walk down the aisle, there's the little gray haired grandma on the way to see her grandkids, and the young pregnant mother with her 3 year old playing beside her and so on and so on. So the terrorist walks down the aisle and returns the smiles from these people, says "Excuse me" as he gets in his seat, all the while thinking "I'm going to crash all you damned infidel pigs into the side of a building at 450MPH in about 20 minutes". Putrid sacks of human dung, if you ask me. Brave? Not hardly. Criminally insane? Yup. Maher was an idiot for saying what he did *when* he did, whatever he actually meant to communicate. WThe show was thought provoking while it lasted. But you don't bad mouth someone at their own funeral, and as Bill learned, you don't say complimentary things about terrorists who just cold bloodedly killed 3000 innocent people. It doesn't matter what you meant, it just ain't all that smart. Regards, Brian T[/b][/QUOTE] how about killing 100,000 people in nagasaki..how was that justified

[Chip McDonald]

[quote]Originally posted by gbtank@home.com: [b]But you don't bad mouth someone at their own funeral, and as Bill learned, you don't say complimentary things about terrorists who just cold bloodedly killed 3000 innocent people. It doesn't matter what you meant, it just ain't all that smart.[/b][/quote]It does matter what it means. He didn't compliment anyone; it was a neutral term, putrid dung can still be brave putrid dung while being just as putrid and dung-like. Does anyone that is criticizing Maher *really and honestly* think he likes/liked the people that did that? Of course not...