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Can i borrow your amp?


LLroomtempJ

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I hate this question so much.

 

My house put together a band to play for this sorority's charity fundraiser.

 

OF COURSE...i get 2 emails from people who want to use my rig.

 

"Oh jason has that nice rig, we can just ask him because he's a nice guy and he's also quite handsome"

 

that's probably what they are saying to themselves.

 

I'm sure that if i say yes...there will be alot more emails coming through asking for the same thing. If i let people use it i can only see the worst happen.

 

I just don't want to be the guy who gets caught out there with a blown speaker or a fried amp and ends up saying "Well i have to pay for this to be fixed"

 

Is there any one out there who is as selfish as me when it comes to these things?

 

jason "not gonna let them use my rig" atkins

2cor5:21

Soli Deo Gloria

 

"it's the beauty of a community. it takes a village to raise a[n] [LLroomtempJ]." -robb

 

My YouTube Channel

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I still have to answer to the question if the band (just me on bass and lots and lots of percussionists) can use my rig for the vocals during rehearsals. I'm hesitating. All the mic's and my bass would go trough a mixer first, and I'm around to take care of things. But my amp isn't made for this. I did not pay good money to risk possible dammage. That makes two of us who prefer to say no. Why don't we?
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Jason,

 

When it comes to your equipment, the answer should be an emphatic NO!!! :evil:

 

What if it gets torn up.... are they going to foot the repair bill... doubtful. Its not being mean, its looking out for yourself and your equipment.

 

Why don't you ask the ones wanting to use your rig if you can borrow their car? ;)

 

The only way I'll let someone use one of my rigs is if I know them really well... and those I know that well wouldn't ask anyway.

 

Rock on.....

 

Tommy

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You can position this so that they have a decision to make rather than you. Call around to your local music stores and find out how much it would cost to rent a similar rig. Then charge them the same amount (plus a refundable security deposit). They can then decide...if you'd rather they decide to rent from the music store, then price your's higher. This puts the decision in theire court.

 

I occasionally do some consulting work in my professional career. If I get a call for a project that I really don't want to do, I double my rate rather than saying "no". If they are willing to pay double, then I do the work and bankroll the moola. If I don't do the work, it's then their decision, not mine.

 

HTH,

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

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I have been put in that position a few times and I always judge the persons ability to replace whatever it is if they trash it. I mean, my rig is more than a few years old now and I still consider it new but it's not BRAND new. Who wouldn't want a BRAND new head? BRAND new drivers? Hey, you got the cash? Turn that gain knob 'till it snaps off.

"He is to music what Stevie Wonder is to photography." getz76

 

I have nothing nice to say so . . .

 

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Originally posted by punkin' patch-ulator:

I have been put in that position a few times and I always judge the persons ability to replace whatever it is if they trash it. I mean, my rig is more than a few years old now and I still consider it new but it's not BRAND new. Who wouldn't want a BRAND new head? BRAND new drivers? Hey, you got the cash? Turn that gain knob 'till it snaps off.

In a perfect world, I totally agree with you. The practical problem here though is that if the person borrowing had enough cash to buy a bass rig, they wouldn't need to borrow one. You could get a commitment that they'll fix anything they break, but even if you get it in writing, you don't have any way to guarantee that the person will actually pay you. Even if you get the agreement in writing, you might have to take them to small claims court to actually get a repair paid. That said, my preference would be to avoid all the hassle and get the cash and security deposit up front. That's proof in itself that the person has enough cash to cover a repair, and you don't have to worry nearly as much.

 

I do however understand that this is for a charity, so follow your heart on this one. For me, it would really depend on how well I know the person using it. If I don't know them, I wouldn't even rent it to them myself, but that's merely my opinion and my approach. Since it's a charity, perhaps you rent it to them free or cheap, but still require the security deposit. That certainly seems reasonable to me. Good bass gear is expensive, and you've spent your hard earned money on it for you to use yourself, not to loan it to anyone who might need it.

 

All this said, if you do loan/rent it to them, at least protect yourself by getting a cash security deposit (or check that will clear) up front, and make it clear that any damages will come out of the security deposit, and they'll owe you more if it's necessary. And put it in writing, so there's no questions about it.

 

HTH,

Dave

Old bass players never die, they just buy lighter rigs.

- Tom Capasso, 11/9/2006

 

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It's a difficult one. I'm not going to be stuck with using someone else's crappy amp just because we have to share the backline and I'm scared of them damaging my rig. However, how many bass player out there can I trust with handling a rig that puts out 1800W into a pair of 2x10" cabs?

 

Most bassists have neither the understanding nor the technique to handle that kind of headroom, having been brought up on desperately underpowered rigs (I swear this problem is worse in the UK due to the gear being significantly more expensive and people's cars and houses being too small to cope with the budget high volume option - BIG cabs).

 

When letting other players use my rig, I tend to turn the volume on the power amp down (the sensitivity is low enough that when the preamp's input LEDs are hitting 0dB both the preamp and power amp (master) volume controls have to be pretty much maxed out for the amp to clip) as well we switching the high pass filters to 50Hz, reducing the chance of over-excursing or over-powering the speakers.

 

Maybe I need to draw up a legally binding document for would-be borrowers to sign? Or take a deposit - enough for one blown speaker (£50) or for a blown power amp (£1000)? But then again, too many musicians are broke for that to be successful - if they ain't got it, you won't get it!

 

Alex

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C. Alexander Claber: Maybe I need to draw up a legally binding document for would-be borrowers to sign? Or take a deposit - enough for one blown speaker (£50) or for a blown power amp (£1000)? But then again, too many musicians are broke for that to be successful - if they ain't got it, you won't get it!
Which is why when I was to shoot or edit video for a band I took CASH UP FRONT for the estimated shoot time (or edit time), plus expenses. And nobody saw or touched even a Dub, let alone the Masters, until the account was brought up to date for any remainder. Almost the aame with the audio studio: BLOCK TIME, advance cash, non-refundable if cancelled.
.
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Honestly though, if the person gives their word that they will replace anything that goes out and you are there to oversee them, isn't it then a question of good will and generousity? I hate the thought that the world has progressed to the point where we ask somebody to sign a disclaimer to borrow a light. I think that's a bit over the top. But at the same time I certainly wouldn't let some scrod with a thrash metal addiction play my rig. Ahh, the ponderings of the spirit. :D

"He is to music what Stevie Wonder is to photography." getz76

 

I have nothing nice to say so . . .

 

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Originally posted by Subsonicbass:

They can use it.

But they can't touch it.

I supervise.

I sound check them and set the gain and volume.

If they don't like it.

Tough luck/

If it's truly a charity, and you would feel guilty otherwise, this is the only way to go.

And be might strict about it.

That or find some other sucker's rig you can all borrow. Still treat it with respect.

If you think my playing is bad, you should hear me sing!
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About 6 months ago I got myself a Workingmans 15 and no less then a week after I got it a friend asked me if his band could borrow it for a rehearsal. I said I would let them use it but I would be there so that was OK. I got everything set up, told the guy not to mess with it too much. I leave for 15 minutes to get some lunch, come back, the idiot has figured out how to turn off the limiter circuit, and they have the gain knob up almost full, and the clipping light is going crazy. I changed everyhing back, yelled at the guy, and when they were done they had the nerve to ask if they could hold on to it for a few days until he got his own rig. Right.

 

So thats my first and last experience loaning people equipment.

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I usually let people borrow my stuff as long as they seem pretty cool... in other words, as long as I don't get the impression they're gonna wreck it.

 

Then I give them "The Speech":

"If anything happens to this rig while you are using it, my bandmates and I will personally see to it that we are compensated for any damages you may have caused.... in whatever manner we deem fit."

 

I find this is clear (and yet vague) enough to ensure responsible use of my gear.

 

Most people are respectful and ask questions before simply changing things around on their own. I also help out by dialing in a sound for them and showing them what knobs are OK to move. I have never had a problem.

 

[knocks wood]

\m/

Erik

"To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consists of breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

--Sun Tzu

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I've been on both sides of this. I've borrowed some tasty equipment. If anything ever happened, I'd do whatever it took to replace it, because that's what's right. My cousin loans me a full PA, with mics and cables. Last gig, I somehow put one of my bandmates' short mic cable in cousin's bag. I spoke to him a few weeks later and he told me. Next weekend he had a brand new 20ft cable added to his stuff (he kept the short and will use it in his studio, and my band mate has a longer cable now). That's a full PA for a gig and it cost me around $40. I figure I'm ahead...

 

I have also loaned some of my gear out. It was either stuff that was easily replaced (read: probably should be replaced), or to someone I was willing to trust. If I suspect stupidity, I either don't loan or I supervise.

 

In the future I'm going to make one change to my "loan" policy. I'm going to show Erik's avatar picture to anyone I loan to. "This guy will visit if you don't cover damages". I think it'll work great !!

 

Tom

www.stoneflyrocks.com

Acoustic Color

 

Be practical as well as generous in your ideals. Keep your eyes on the stars and keep your feet on the ground. - Theodore Roosevelt

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Yea i usually let other bands use it if a problem arises with theirs. But i do all the knob fideling. Kind of bothersome when its a band whos set i wanst gunna watch and now i have to for the amp, but i feel like i need to be there for the other guy. Karma i guess.
We distort. You abide.
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I can count on one hand the people that I'll let use my gear. That is because I know them and that my gear will be returned in the same condition it left. I remember one gig (battle of the bands type thing) where one of the bass players came up to me and hounded me to use my amp because his was "a piece of crap". I stood fast in my "no" and he finally got the hint. Then proceeded to hound the other bassists as they rolled in. GAH! "I worked long and hard to buy my SWR rig. You should do the same." Is what I was thinking to myself as I walked away.
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In my last band I used to leave a cabinet at our rehearsal space (my guitarist basement). Now knowing how responsible he was, I openly offered to let him use it for friendly jams and recording when I wasn't there. I wouldn't extend that offer to just anyone; the guy was wicked anal, and paraniod!

I would only let others that I don't know or trust use my stuff if I was standing right next to them, with my hand on the switch.

"Start listening to music!".

-Jeremy C

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Depends. When my band gigs in a small club and if I know the bass player from the other band they can use mine to save space and hassle. They can't turn it up loud enough to damage anything anyways and its kind of cool to hear a bunch of different basses through my rig.

On a big gig forget it. Guys have come up to me and said "Are you the bass player? Can I use your amp?" "No".

my band: Mission 5
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Having had a speaker blow up when the band I was in was the "house band" for a jam night, I definitely would say no unless I knew the person and liked them.

 

The blown speaker caused such a fuss that it ended up being the last gig I did with that band.

 

And it wasn't me that caused the fuss. The bandleader offered to pay me for the speaker and the other people in the band all started screaming, "that's our money, you can't give it to him". I took off on a dead run and never turned back.

 

It cost $100 to have the speaker reconed.

 

It's not that hard to get a cabinet and head on and off the stage. It's the drums that take all the time.

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Thanks for the responses guys. I just found out today that the people in this particualr band are all....get this......BERKLEE STUDENTS!!!!

 

Argh. I'm in school for engineering....these people are probably majoring in music business and performance and they don't even have their own stuff.

 

This is for charity, but i don't see myself putting my gear out there on the line. I think the bass player plays a cirrus as well, so the answer will definitely be no.

 

If any of you guys are interested in what my band will be doing:

 

we'll probably do some 12 bar blues with me on bass and vocals. Our blues theme will be the "Lament of a red sox fan". 5mins is all we have....so i figure verse/verse/guitar solo (he'll cry if he doesn't get it)/verse.

 

The red sox haven't lost yet, but we all know that they will...so i've started the song already.

 

(I'm a red sox fan/They always hurt me so/something something something/i'll never let go [--> to the 4] something about the yankees sucking/ something about arod sucking some more/ yadda yadda yadda, you get the idea.

 

yes, i am a yankees fan, but crowd pleasing acts (i do go to school in boston) will win the prizes

 

jason "i just got my laptop back from ibm today...and i've successfully rebuilt it with everything running smoothly" atkins

2cor5:21

Soli Deo Gloria

 

"it's the beauty of a community. it takes a village to raise a[n] [LLroomtempJ]." -robb

 

My YouTube Channel

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We have an annual party at my work. We got in a "corporate gig" band to play and provide PA. My band did a 1/2 hour set and the "corporate gig" guys let us use all of their equipment :D . They ran the PA so it was really only the drums that were a possible problem (we have drums but didn't want to do the load in/out). When I told them we played "shoe gazing guitar indie pop" they were sweet. Also, their bass player did the PA stuff. He was really apologetic about not having a real amp "just a pod and your own monitor mix"! This was the best I've ever sounded (well, just the loudest bass level for me).

 

But -- they were getting paid. They were doing the mixing, they were there and we gave them the option of using own gear (but needed vocal PA).

 

I have a friend whose borrowed my bass amp for church gigs -- not very successfully. He never screws in the banana plugs and when he digs in they fall out :mad: -- just when its sounding good too :( .

A man is not usually called upon to have an opinion of his own talents at all; he can very well go on improving them to the best of his ability without deciding on his own precise niche in the temple of Fame. -- C.S.Lewis
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Sorry I'm late to the party... and for being devil's advocate, but I worked as a house bassist for a weekly open mike night for about 18 months and weekly put up with guest bassists cranking it up to 11. Which is why my SWR Workingman's 15 has a JBL K140 speaker in it. Can't blow it, and the SWR has good overload protection. Also I made it clear to those knob-twirlers that I was the final authority on how the bass sounded onstage. (also helped that I was 6'-350 lbs. at the time, but that's another story...)

 

Benefits: they're "good will" opportunities if you want to network, and they're tax-deductions if you itemize your music work. So a repair or bias adjustment would be a write-off... IF you're doing this as a business. Otherwise, consider the possibility of a "bad rep" from others and whether that could hurt you in the music community.

 

Most bands/musicians I work with understand the "if you break it, you pay for it" rule and if it really concerns you then draw up a quick liability form that you mutually sign with each party using your amp with the "break/pay" clause clearly stated. It's not rocket science, and as long as you have one witness to each signing (include a signature block for that person) you can cover yourself against accidental damage.

 

There's also some simple in-line fuse circuits you can put between your amp and speaker (or inside your speaker cabinet) to protect your cabinet from overloads and blowouts. I stopped using them when I went with the idea of using speakers rated at twice the max output of my head (400W head/800W speaker load). Haven't blown a speaker in over 15 years.

 

You're the decision-maker; I just wanted to offer an alternate viewpoint.

:wave:

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Killed From Outer Space:

"...I went with the idea of using speakers rated at twice the max output of my head (400W head/800W speaker load). Haven't blown a speaker in over 15 years.

"

 

I just hope that c.alex doesn't get a look at what you just said...otherwise this will become a amp power/cab handling power thread all over again.

2cor5:21

Soli Deo Gloria

 

"it's the beauty of a community. it takes a village to raise a[n] [LLroomtempJ]." -robb

 

My YouTube Channel

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It means Cirrus players rule the universe with their godlike playing. Or something.

 

I've let people use my equipment in a pinch, but I definately size them up. 98% of the time it's because they've been the victim of extremely bad luck (band forgot to pick up bass or amp from rehearsal studio, etc).

 

Basically, if they're extremely respectful in the way they ask, and I don't have anywhere to run off to, I give 'em the benefit of the doubt and watch them carefully as they set the amp. As long as they don't start abusing the thing I don't have a problem.

 

If they come off as an irresponsible oaf that I can tell will just mangle my equipment, I say no.

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Originally posted by BenLoy:

It means Cirrus players rule the universe with their godlike playing. Or something.

Thanks for clearing that up, Ben. ;)

 

I've let players use my rig as a backline. I feel more comfortable when they we arrange this ahead of time. Worse case scenario is a blown speaker or tweeter? I can deal.

 

Some people don't want to use my backline, though. I LOVE using a backline; I'm not picky about the amp as long as it works. Less to carry and load in is FINE by me.

 

A couple of months ago, I opened for a nation act. (REALLY nice guys, by the way). Anyhow, they have a Hartke deal, so they were supposed to provide guitar and bass cabinets. There was also another band after us. We were all supposed to use the Hartke cabs.

 

The gig was in Hoboken at the famed Maxwell's. Only a couple of block from my apartment.

 

The Pennyroyals showed up without cabinets. There was a miscommunication.

 

I offered up my Bergantino HT112 and EX112 with my Eden WT-330. Anyone who has heard the rig is amazed, considering the size of it.

 

The bassplayer from the second band looked at the cabinets and scoffed. Said they were too "small" to play rock. They drove to their rehearsal studio and picked up an Ampeg 410HE. Nothing against that cabinet (I used to own one), but it can't compete with the pair of Bergs volume wise or low-end response wise.

 

I thought is was hilarious. No skin off my back. I didn't have to load in or out. Carried my 12 lb. Eden head onto stage and then off the stage. Fantastic.

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