filling the void during a solo

[moot]

It's kind of a lost art, bass-player-as-band while the guitars take off

Not in my studio baby!!

[abaguer]

I neve worry about cranking my signal up when filling the solo in trio situation. Try playing the money notes on the first five frets.

[RHINO_ROB]

Originally posted by Plan 09 from Outer Space:

Forget my previous reply:

 

http://www.guitarcrazy.com.au/images/Inventory/Guitars/Rickenbacker/Doubleneck.jpg

 

that bass has a guitar growing off of it's butt. someone had better get it to a luthier.

 

usually i just play harder or change up but lately i have been experimenting with a unibass and a guitar amp. pretty cool i just have to remember to turn it off so i don't piss the guitar player off.

[Petethebassman]

What void? If the band nails the song's groove, the groove will carry you through the solo section quite nicely. Don't be afraid to use space, silence can be a very effective musical tool; for an example of this approach, try listening to

"Free Live" , a magnificent 1971 live album by Free, which was instrumentally a three-piece band plus a singer.

No studio sweetening or overdubs, just great playing. Free was a band that definitely wasn't afraid to use space in music, very sparse but effective arrangements. And of course, Andy Fraser was one of the tastiest and most inventive bassists of the late 60s/early 70s era. Check it out.

[The Bear Jew]

Free definitely knew how to do some clever things with songwriting...

 

The band's most popular song ("All Right Now") barely has any bass in most of the song... and it never sounds empty.

[g.]

Good thing not everybody agrees that there should be a formula for this. That would stop innovation or individualism in music right in its tracks. Oh, wait - that's already happened in POPULAR music ; }

[Mike Dimin]

Although I wrote "the book" on chordal playing on bass and would love more people develop the technique (= book sales), I would say, that what you don't play might just be as importand as what you do. Allowing space in the music might be what is needed. I think it is difficult for many musicians to allow silence, but what it really does is make people listen harder

 

Mike

[davebrownbass]

I do like the concept of space.

 

And keeping it simple is pretty valuable as well.

 

Sometimes I play a 2 or 3 piece jazz group. During the solo section, I just continue walking a bass line, not different than during the head.

 

If you are playing 2-to-a-bar, you might change to 4-to-a-bar. But be judicious in your choice of notes.

 

For a completely different take, listen carefully to Rush. Sometimes Geddy fills harmonies in on keys, but often, he busy's up his bass line during guitar solos.

 

Also...let the drummer help you out in this area.

[jeremy c]

Originally posted by CMDN:

Just to throw a lil' something contentious in here...

 

There really shouldn't be a noticeable "void" if the guitarist is doing his job correctly.

 

Effects can be fun, and changing your bass line around a bit is also cool sometimes... but there's no substitute for everyone playing the right parts at the same time.

Originally posted by greenboy:

What void? ; }

Every space does not need to be filled.

[g.]

Every space does not need to be filled.

And yet you guys attempt to do that repeatedly.

[wraub]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Every space does not need to be filled.

And yet you guys attempt to do that repeatedly.

You guys?

 

Bassists?

Bassists on this forum?

Guys in bands with soloists?

Seat-fillers?

Dentists?

Guys named Guy?

Guys with effects?

Musician's Institute grads?

 

Guys in general?

 

???

 

Peace,

 

wraub

[jeremy c]

Does total number of posts count as filling up space?

[g.]

Let's see. Lety's go back. Someone has become aware that when the single guitarist switches from chording to being a lead player that simultaneously the music's texture often seems gutted. I don't know what kind of band and music was being referred to but in my experience in guitar-oriented rock and cover bands, this often means that you are

 

(1) playing music that had guitarists who were experts at interjecting into some space, while also soloing - or emulating this style. But your gtr player can't handle that level of playing yet.

 

(2) playing or emulating music that while it may have come from three pieces, may feature overdubs subtle and not so subtle. sometimes it's physically impossible or nearly so to recreate the textures found in such music, by your guitarist, whether or not said gtrist is proficient and widely versed.

 

(3) playing music that was done by bands with more players, often a rhthm gtr, a keyboardist, or both. Then god help your guitarist should s/he attempt to pull THAT off.

 

This kind of means there is a guy holding a bigger lower pitched guitar who might deign to sometimes add some textures that may enhance the sense that the band has all that energy and dynamics that might be found on recordings. If that bigger guitar is able to keep the grooves central but at times interject, layer, etc, so that the music feels dynamically diverse, sometimes sparse, sometimes full, so that energy and excitement don't flag...

 

Well. It's good to have various ways to do this. It's an opportunity. It's fun and rewarding. It's a better expression of knowing when to leave space than just playing the rote bass part on the record while perhaps interactions that justified that bass part no longer exist, and the soloist feels somewhat unsupported.

 

It's supposed to be an art, and I suppose as such, we have to examine what we are doing on a case by case basis.

[The Bear Jew]

I dunno about all this...

 

The way I see it, you're either rocking or sucking.

 

If you're rocking, it's all good.

 

If you're sucking, people (within and without the band) notice things like "voids," etc.

 

My advice: Try not to suck.

[g.]

How different the concept for a band say like MORPHINE where the third instrument is a saxaphone, whish essentially is a single note instrument. Dana Colley did some dual horn blowing and a bit of multiphonics, a little effects use... and heavy use of reverb is always evident on a MORPHINE disc.

 

But Sandman & Co approached it so artfully, it's built right into his writing and his band concept. The only voids there were MEANT to be there. A whole lotta different... The point to this: if it's originals you are doing in a three piece band, it's going to work a lot better if it's built into your writing and staging concepts.

 

Another example is CLATTER, where the concept required tools and techniques to bridge the gap for textures and dynamics regardless of solos.

[g.]

The way I see it, you're either rocking or sucking.{...} My advice: Try not to suck.

Don't "try" - DO ; } Or? ; |

 

People who don't suck figure out how to solve the musical and presentation problems*. People who suck need rules.

 

* watching the extra features on CLATTER'S Blinded In Boonville DVD shows how one set of artists evolved / approached the conundrum they saw.

[The Bear Jew]

Don't "try" - DO ; } Or? ; |

Well... The quest for rock is rife with opportunities to suck, and even the most rocking folks in the land have sucked at one time or another.

 

Except for Lemmy. He's never sucked. Believe it.

[g.]

I can't remember if he sucked in Hawkwind or not. My recollection sucks ; }

[chewstermaniac]

come to think of it, im filling in that sound just fine. its the guitar player. I think he needs to solo less

 

Thanks for all the replies, even the sucky ones. No one has said that there is a void, it was just my opinion, perhaps i'm too critical, or perhaps I'm correct. Either way, developing new techniques and styles and variations to rthyms is what music is all about to me, change. Speaking metaphorically it shouldn't end at the butterfly. if you get to a point where you feel you know it all, i say put down your bass and get a day job. You won't be able to work with anybody.

 

cheers.

[The Bear Jew]

Even when Hawkwind sort of sucked (and it did from time to time) it was Lemmy's coolness/rocking nature that saved the band from falling into the abyss of suckdom. of course, after the Hawkwind guys kicked him out, the band teetered on the edge for a while, but his residual rockingness remained with Hawkwind for a long time afterwards, which helped that band immensely.

[g.]

Guitarists. Go figure. It'a always them, and it's usually about them, right or wrong ; }

[moot]

Guitarists. Go figure. It'a always them, and it's usually about them, right or wrong ; }

Word.