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Did Jaco Pastorius REALLY inspire all these people?


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It's impossible for me to overstate the direct influence Jaco has had on me as a bassist. All of the "rules" you will ever need to learn regarding tasteful, inspirational and explosive bass playing are all there in his recordings. He had a unique gift for always playing the "perfect thing" for the musical moment at hand. For an excellent example of his yet-to-be-surpassed technical command of the instrument, pick up his first solo recording and listen to the tune "Used to be a cha-cha".

 

Kirk

Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away...
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Originally posted by kad:

For an excellent example of his yet-to-be-surpassed technical command of the instrument, pick up his first solo recording and listen to the tune "Used to be a cha-cha".

 

Kirk

I can outplay him right now.

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by kad:

For an excellent example of his yet-to-be-surpassed technical command of the instrument...

That's a pretty bold statement. His technique is amazing and he was a pioneer at his time, there's no doubt about that. But if I listen to Wooten, Manring, Miller, Sheenhan, and many others who picked up where Jaco left off, I have a hard time accepting that his technique hasn't yet been surpassed. Was he playing flute AND bass on that track?
- Matt W.
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Originally posted by lug:

I can outplay him right now.[/QB]

Don't you hate it when you go fishin and don't get any bites? :(

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by TShakazBlackRoots:

I still don't know what the 'fuss' is about coz I don't own or know any of his stuff.

Perhaps you should either go to the music shop and buy the Jaco Pastorius album then. If you can't afford to buy it, then at least go to amazon.com and listen to some sound samples. I'll make it easy for you. Jaco played on all this stuff:

 

Jaco Pastorius

 

Weather Report - 8:30

 

Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life

 

The sound clip of "Donna Lee" alone should open your eyes. It's the head and the first chorus of his solo. Make sure you're paying attention when he plays the fast triplet run about 50 seconds into it. There will be a quiz later.

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Originally posted by Matt W:

Originally posted by kad:

For an excellent example of his yet-to-be-surpassed technical command of the instrument...

That's a pretty bold statement. His technique is amazing and he was a pioneer at his time, there's no doubt about that. But if I listen to Wooten, Manring, Miller, Sheenhan, and many others who picked up where Jaco left off, I have a hard time accepting that his technique hasn't yet been surpassed. Was he playing flute AND bass on that track?
It's a bold statement indeed, and I stand by it! "Technical command" is not measured in notes-per-second. It's all about, "what notes" - how, when, and why. Perhaps "musical command" would have been more appropriate. I've heard every bassist mentioned in your list - they are all amazing. I'll even add one name to your list that deserves to be there - Scott Lafaro. However, I've yet to hear a bassist that had a better sensibility than Jaco for playing the right thing at the right time.

 

All of this, of course, is just my opinion; please take it as such - nothing more... :)

 

Kirk

Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away...
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Originally posted by getz76:

Originally posted by lug:

Don't you hate it when you go fishin and don't get any bites? :(

Oh, I thought you were being serious. :D
I'm the worst bass player alive. note: alive

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by lug:

Originally posted by getz76:

Originally posted by lug:

Don't you hate it when you go fishin and don't get any bites? :(

Oh, I thought you were being serious. :D
I'm the worst bass player alive. note: alive
I'm sure we can change either one or both of those attributes. ;)

 

I doubt you're the worst. You should have heard my play at open-mic last night. :D

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Originally posted by getz76:

I doubt you're the worst. You should have heard my play at open-mic last night. :D

Ever been to Harmony Central Bass Forum? If not, go there and ask who the worst bassist in the world is. I dare ya.

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by kad:

 

It's a bold statement indeed, and I stand by it! "Technical command" is not measured in notes-per-second. It's all about, "what notes" - how, when, and why. Perhaps "musical command" would have been more appropriate. I've heard every bassist mentioned in your list - they are all amazing. I'll even add one name to your list that deserves to be there - Scott Lafaro. However, I've yet to hear a bassist that had a better sensibility than Jaco for playing the right thing at the right time.

 

All of this, of course, is just my opinion; please take it as such - nothing more... :)

 

Kirk

Got it! :thu:

Thanks for the clarity.

 

Now to find some Scott Lafaro...

or maybe Lug's latest solo effort.

- Matt W.
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in my opinion, Jaco has never been surpassed.. lyrically, melodically and his sense of time were amazing... and he was the first to do it that way.. no disrespect to other great players, i think Jeff Berlin has actually come close with his command of the bass, but that's about it....

Praise ye the LORD.

....praise him with stringed instruments and organs...

Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD.

excerpt from- Psalm 150

visit me at:

www.adriangarcia.net

for His glory

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Interesting questions! Interesting responses!

 

I first heard Jaco on Weather Report's Black Market album. This was before I started playing bass - or at the time, it might be more accurate to say before I started messing around on the bass. - When you're not a bass player, you don't spend a lot of time thinking about the bass parts. Our perception of bass is often an unconscious perception that something groovy is going on. Anyway, I really didn't think to myself, "Wow! What monster bass chops!" How could I even have known what constituted monster bass chops?

 

Anyway, within a year of that first exposure, I started playing bass myself. Then an album called Heavy Weather came out, and I was utterly blown away by Jaco's bass lines, bass solos, composition, tone, audicity, everything. I went back and listened to his tracks from Black Market - Alphonso Johnson had also played on the record - and lo and behold, those were pretty amazing bass lines, too. I just hadn't noticed them before.

 

So, yes, I was inspired by Jaco, quite honestly and sincerely. Inspired, perhaps, in a bad way. When I should have been working on my groove and taste, I was hellbent on becoming Mr. Busy Player. It wasn't until I started recording my own music that I discovered that bass lines must fit the music instead of bolstering the ego.

 

Victor came along much later, so even though I apprecite his amazing technique, it was more his energy and enthusiasm that I admired.

 

As I get older, I appreciate groove and tone more than megachops. That sounds like a cop out - when I was eighteen, I would not have believed this to be a sincere comment - but I've seen enough musical situations over the years where clean and punchy beats virtuosic and "all over the place" that it's been a natural progression. Whereas I used to go gaga over Teen Town and Havona, now it's the sweeter side of Jaco that intrigues me, songs like Cannon Ball and A Remark You Made.

 

I hope that I've answered the question adequately, at least from the perspective of my personal experience.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Bumpcity, give thanx for the links. Let me have a listen to the samples. Thing is, I just ordered nuff Reggae cd's from Amazon last week, for me to practice pon, as a birthday present. ;)

 

If all of you contributed $1 to my birthday 2 weeks ago, I would've advise you to spend it on a Jaco CD. :D I''l get this music and I fully expect to be blown away, or you guys are in big trouble. :eek:

Ok Jaco, I'm ready, HIT ME!!

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Dan...

 

Interesting and I share your thoughts on much of that...

 

I love listening to Jaco's stuff and hold him in the highest regard as an innovator and creative genius, but his approach is not something I am intensely interested in emmulating as a bassist, myself.

 

Personally, and of course this has a lot to do with my chosen genre and the band I play with, I would rather emmulate the solid groove and massive anchoring approach to playing bass as someone like Tommy Shannon, than I would Jaco.

 

But I also think that listening to Jaco's collection of works and masterpieces from over the years is absolutely essential listening for any and every bass player.

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I've had a listen to all Jaco's samples on Amazon. My favourite so far is 'Potrait for Tracy'. Nice! :thu:

One thing for sure, I'm glad I didn't know about Jaco before I picked up the bass. If I had, I probably wouldn't be playing the bass now. Jaco is so beyond my wildest dreams of bass playing. My Bass brain just 'crashed' and needs resetting. :D

Those of you who have achieved those levels, more power to you.

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Dan,

 

Totally agree - it's the "sweeter" side of Jaco where his greatest genius is revealed! Funny you should mention "A remark you made". My all time favorite "Jaco moment" is in that tune. Toward the end of the tune, Jaco takes a short solo where he plays a melodic figure that ends with beautiful ascending slide (a perfect fifth). He then repeats the passage with the slide doubled. It's simply one of the most gorgeous things I've ever heard!! I'm sure you know the passage I'm referring to... ;)

 

Kirk

Reality is like the sun - you can block it out for a time but it ain't goin' away...
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Originally posted by Matt W:

Now to find some Scott Lafaro...

or maybe Lug's latest solo effort.

You want the latest Lug solo effort? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE LATEST LUG SOLO EFFORT! People have used ICEPICKS in their ears to "make it stop!"

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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Originally posted by lug:

Originally posted by Matt W:

Now to find some Scott Lafaro...

or maybe Lug's latest solo effort.

You want the latest Lug solo effort? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE LATEST LUG SOLO EFFORT! People have used ICEPICKS in their ears to "make it stop!"
Are you flattering yourself here? :)

Steve Force,

Durham, North Carolina

--------

My Professional Websites

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Originally posted by forceman:

Originally posted by lug:

Originally posted by Matt W:

Now to find some Scott Lafaro...

or maybe Lug's latest solo effort.

You want the latest Lug solo effort? YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE LATEST LUG SOLO EFFORT! People have used ICEPICKS in their ears to "make it stop!"
Are you flattering yourself here? :)
It's not flattery, it's a fact. No one is as bad as me. Do you honestly think you can play worse than me? Trust me, you don't EVEN want to go there! :mad:

You can stop now -jeremyc

STOP QUOTING EVERY THING I SAY!!! -Bass_god_offspring

lug, you should add that statement to you signature.-Tenstrum

I'm not sure any argument can top lug's. - Sweet Willie

 

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after i got to hear tapes of jaco, i promptly ripped the frets out of my hohner steinberger clone 5 string, wood putty-ed the holes, and...didn't become Jaco...but, Gawd, the fun i've had trying!
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Originally posted by daofktr:

i promptly ripped the frets out of my hohner steinberger clone 5 string, wood putty-ed the holes, and...didn't become Jaco...but, Gawd, the fun i've had trying!

Ditto. I wouldn't say I did it promptly, I waited until I had another bass, but my Hohner Steinberger clone sounds so much better without frets than with!

 

Alex

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Jaco Pastorious motivated to improve my playing and still does.

 

I didn't even know he was dead. Was browsing through the magazine and saw the "Jaco Punk Anthology advert". I thought he was a neo-classical wannabe. (I was that ignorant)

 

I don't know what happened after that. I managed to download "The Chicken" tab from www.mysongbook.com and gave it a listen. It's in midi form by the way.

 

My life is never the same again after that. The grooves in it was an eye opener. I didn't know the bass could be played like that. I was playing punk rock then. So I bought the Words of Mouth Revisited cd and discovered more of his works with Weather Report.

 

Punk rock and whatever is associated with it is so dead now(at least to me it is).

 

Jaco Pastorious has made me branch out into Stanley Clarke,Marcus Miller, Cream, Level 42, Earth, wind and fire and all sorts of 60-70's bands. The 70's is like the peak of groovy music.

 

One thing that Jaco has taught me is that there's no limit to expressing yourself on the bass guitar.

 

Andre

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There was the bassist I was before hearing Jaco, and the bassist I am after getting turned on to him. Two VERY different people. The pre-Jaco Bubba was just a stupid kid. The post-Jaco Bubba is a stupid adult with a much better grasp of the bass.
"Study, study, study...or BONK BONK bad kids!"
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Originally posted by Edendude:

Dan...

 

Interesting and I share your thoughts on much of that...

 

I love listening to Jaco's stuff and hold him in the highest regard as an innovator and creative genius, but his approach is not something I am intensely interested in emmulating as a bassist, myself.

 

There is an important distinction here which sometimes gets lots in BASS HERO threads. That distinction is that being INFLUENCED by someone doesn't mean that you COPYCAT there style.

 

Jaco had a uniquely personal style and tone. Copying him directly would sound awkward, in my opinion. It would be analogous to a young actor trying to look and sound exactly like Robert DeNiro. I'm sure that LOTS of actors have been influenced by DeNiro without trying to MIMIC him.

 

I have been deeply influenced by Jaco, but even in a fusion context, I wouldn't try to mimic his style. He influenced me in other ways, mainly in the way that he fearlessly expanded the role of the instrument and put it up front and on a footing with melodic instruments like sax and lead guitar. To be fair, other players (Mingus, Jamerson, McCartney, etc.) did this to some degree, but Jaco did it to a much greater degree.

 

Jaco also influenced me with his note choices. He played lines that no other bassist would even have come up with, because was a student of bebop soloists (Charlie Parker, in particular) and because he understood and applied theory in real time as no other bassist had done before.

 

Then there was his musicianship. The minute you first hear Jaco, you recognize that the cat was DEDICATED to his instrument. This was a man who devoted his live obsessively to bringing out a new vision of what the Fender Jazz bass could sound like. And that technique... I think that the guy must have practiced in his sleep.

 

I was also influenced by Jaco's exploitation of the unique characteristics of the bass and bass amplification. Using harmonics in Portrait of Tracy, for instance, and the application of compression that's necessary to bring those harmonics up to the volume level of the normally plucked notes. Also, his use of the fuzz circuit on his Acoustic 360 amps. That was a big part of his sound. Most bassists probably ignored the fuzz tone feature, but Jaco turned it into something musical.

 

I've also been influenced by Jaco's composition and arranging skills. Teen Town, a composition built entirely on the 13 chord. That's freaking brilliant! I know of no other composer in history who came up with something so musical based on an idea so simple.

 

The there was Jaco's groove, his swing, his attitude, his zest for live. Before he descended into his troubled years, he was larger than life, and he was LOVING life. That's a side of his personna that younger folks may not see, but it really came across during his lifetime. He was the Michael Jordan of bass. Love him or hate him - and believe me, I remember all of the Jaco vs. Stanley arguments - you had to admire this cat. He was so much "larger than life," if I may employ a useful cliché.

 

The point is that it's possible to be influenced by someone without MIMICKING them. And I count Jaco among my stronger musical influences.

The Black Knight always triumphs!

 

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Originally posted by nhcomp45@aol.com:

I bought a Jaco CD about ten years ago. Played it once and never again. I guess I just don't get it, Paul.

Listen to it again, Comp. Ten years is an awful long time.

"I had to have something, and it wasn't there. I couldn't go down the street and buy it, so I built it."

 

Les Paul

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