Are we going to run out of songs?

[Phoney McRing Ring]

Hey there people.

 

Just another one of these weird, kinnda stupid thoughts i have but heres my thinking. Since there are an finite number of notes in the musical spectrum, surely we will eventually run out of songs to write. Think about it, there has to be a limit on the combination of notes that can be put together to make a song.

 

I don't know if this is making any sense (infact im begining to think i have to much time on my hands all together. If you guys see a fault in my logic please feel free to let me know (Just dont flame me too hard )

 

Much Love

Dave

[Dave Brown]

Well, George Harrison certainly found this out the hard way.

 

And there's always the similarity between "I Wanna New Drug" and the "Ghostbusters" Theme.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Did Kid Rock accidently use the chorus from Metallica's "Sad But True" in "American Badass"?

 

Or RATM accidently rewrite Deep Purple's "Echoes" in their song "Renegadez of Funk"? And they totally butchered BOC's Kick out the Jams, by the way.

 

Slipknot has nothing to worry about, as they are using notes not normally found in nature.

[jeremy c]

I think we already have run out of stupid heavy metal songs.

 

But that doesn't seem to stop anyone from writing them.

[erikmag]

Originally posted by Social Critic:

 

Or RATM accidently rewrite Deep Purple's "Echoes" in their song "Renegadez of Funk"?

It was by Afrika Bambaataa originaly, the whole cd is covers.

[Mr. Phil]

Originally posted by Social Critic:

Slipknot has nothing to worry about, as they are using notes not normally found in nature.

yea, they are great

[Raven]

"Too much time on my hands"... wasn't that written by Tommy Shaw, lead vocalist in Styx?

 

I don't think we'll run out of songs but if we ever do then we can just start playing them all backwards until we get all the notes back..

 

Rock on...

[Pernax]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I think we already have run out of stupid heavy metal songs.

 

But that doesn't seem to stop anyone from writing them.

I'll be sure to tell this to my band mates so hopefully we can move on to more acceptable music styles, like MTV po(o)p a la Britney & co.

[alexclaber]

Are we going to run out of threads to start because there are only 26 letters in the alphabet?

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

Are we going to run out of threads to start because there are only 26 letters in the alphabet?

Touché.

 

Alex (can I call you Alex? ) raises a good point. Technically, there may be some limit on the number of songs you can write, as far as the sequence of notes, but practically speaking, there really isn't a limit.

 

Think about the variety of rhythms you can use...and the length of the riffs, from one chord to who knows how many...add to that all the harmonies for each note in the sequence...and add percussion...add effects and other unusual instrumentation...and the possibilities are (practically) endless.

 

With many people stuck in playing in 4/4 without any unusual syncopation, only playing major, minor, or power chords, and playing without creative harmonies or dual-guitar parts or other unusual instrumentation, you start to limit the possibilities much more quickly.

 

I agree with Jeremy, except the key word is "stupid". There are a lot of creative heavy-metal/hardcore-type songs that are still waiting to be written. I'm saying this because I still am hearing good, creative new stuff all the time.

[BigKahuna855]

its impossible to run out of songs to play because if you add one note to the end, it technically becomes a new song

 

$.02

[The Fonz]

in the world of rock, we already have. i have a friend that raised the argument that every rock song in the past decade has already been written by led zepplin. you can try to argue with him but there is no song you can reference that he can't find a led zepplin example of.

[RHINO_ROB]

Originally posted by BigKahuna855:

its impossible to run out of songs to play because if you add one note to the end, it technically becomes a new song

 

$.02

try telling that to vanilla ice and queen.

[bassplayer5217]

I concur, dudes.

 

I was listening to a rap CD my friend made me, containing Ying-yang Twins and Lil' John stuff. Good times, until I figured out what had been bothering me the whole time.

 

I was thinking: what makes these things sell?

 

And it isnt the lyrics or the artists, but instead, the same beat on all of them. Take "Shake it like a salt shaker" and "Shake that Monkey". Aside from the word "shake", they are quite different, except one thing: The beat is as follows:

 

- 16th note closed high-hat

- 8th note "clap" on 2nd and 4th beat

- drum-machine bass during 1st and 3rd beat

 

And don't forget the synth strings or vibes line in the Key of C, D, or E.

 

Examine the top hits of your local rap station. I'd bet 5 of 10 fit this mold. You be the judge, for I am just a member of the jury.

 

- Germain

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Oh yes, we are running out of songs. Only Jazz and Classical musicians have nothing to worry about. My beloved Blues usually sounds the same musically.

As for Hip hop, it's all about the beats/rhythm. Songs that will make people 'bounce' in the clubs a'la Timbaland, Neptunes etc.. Usually few notes can be found in these songs.

[jimbojones]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

[QB]I think we already have run out of stupid heavy metal songs [QB]

HEAVY METAL IS NOT STUPID, just the people who make it! LOL(Exept for Tom Morello from Rage Against the Machine, because he was graduated from Harvard)

[jeremy c]

Originally posted by Pernax:

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I think we already have run out of stupid heavy metal songs.

 

But that doesn't seem to stop anyone from writing them.

I'll be sure to tell this to my band mates so hopefully we can move on to more acceptable music styles, like MTV po(o)p a la Britney & co.

You could write some smart heavy metal songs. That would definitely be something different.

 

I wasn't saying that Spearing Britney was the alternative, her "songs" sound like they are produced on assembly lines somewhere in the basement of Disney World.

[Steve Force]

Originally posted by Social Critic:

And they totally butchered BOC's Kick out the Jams, by the way.

Not to be picky (OK, I'm being picky ), but the MC5 recorded "Kick out the Jams Mother F#$%^r", not Blue Oyster Cult.

[Aussie bass dude]

While ever we have Jazz, I am sure these crazy Kats will keep inventing crazy chords,tunings and timing that will keep our ears from getting bored

[bruiser_dup2]

Originally posted by Ace Cracker:

in the world of rock, we already have. i have a friend that raised the argument that every rock song in the past decade has already been written by led zepplin. you can try to argue with him but there is no song you can reference that he can't find a led zepplin example of.

Your friend needs to do a little more reading-- most of Led Zeppelin's songs were "borrowed" from earlier blues artists, often without credit. For instance, they were sued by Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf for copyright infringement and settled out of court. Other artists, who had already passed on or who didn't have the wherewithal to sue, didn't make out as well.

 

Bruiser

[tarkus]

Robert Fripp refers to himself as a Rock musician, because anything can be Rock. With that the endless mathematical possibilities within western tonalities and eastern meters and visa versa are for us to utilize.

 

Yesterdays wine can be todays vinegar.. How bout a salad?

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Originally posted by forceman:

Originally posted by Social Critic:

And they totally butchered BOC's Kick out the Jams, by the way.

Not to be picky (OK, I'm being picky ), but the MC5 recorded "Kick out the Jams Mother F#$%^r", not Blue Oyster Cult.

...and on Blue Oyster Cults live album "Some Enchanted Evening" which I STILL HAVE ON LP was the song "Kick Out the Jams" without the part where one fornicates with mother. I played the bass line to this one personally in 1978.

 

... not that I'm being picky.

[jeremy c]

Even if Blue Oyster Cult recorded this song,

IT'S AN MC-5 SONG!

 

The Blue Oyster Cult version is a cover version.

 

I have the MC-5 album from 1968 with the original version and the original lyrics, and I saw them play this song many times live in '67, '68 and '69. So there.

 

I has spoken.

[_Sweet Willie_]

Dig it, Mr. Cohizzle has spoken!

 

I've heard that some band named Cottonmouth DN does a slammin' cover of "Kick Out the Jams" in their live shows.

 

Is anyone capable of doing the math that would calculate the total number of melodies (forget harmonies/chords) that could be generated from the 88 keys of a piano using up to, but not more than, say, 1000 notes? (1000 is chosen pretty much arbitrarily, but it would allow you to compose up to 250 bars of 4 quarter notes each. ) Then take into account all the rhythmic configurations possible? That'll be a large number!

 

It may be, though, that to qualify as a "song" we might need to put some restrictions on the combinations...or do we?!

 

Peace.

--s-uu

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Even if Blue Oyster Cult recorded this song,

IT'S AN MC-5 SONG!

 

The Blue Oyster Cult version is a cover version.

 

I have the MC-5 album from 1968 with the original version and the original lyrics, and I saw them play this song many times live in '67, '68 and '69. So there.

 

I has spoken.

I yeild to your superior knowledge.

 

I have no frame of reference as to how old you are or what you listen to, I have never heard of MC-5. Obviously, 1968 predates 1978. Would be interested in hearing the "orginal" version and seeing how it compares to the newer ones.

 

Kinda the way it was interesting to watch Locomotion evolve from Little Eva, to GFR, to whoever the new wave chick was that recorded it in the '80's as an MTV video.

[lug]

Originally posted by Dave Brown:

Well, George Harrison certainly found this out the hard way.

 

And there's always the similarity between "I Wanna New Drug" and the "Ghostbusters" Theme.

and "Sledgehammer"

[Adamixoye]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Dig it, Mr. Cohizzle has spoken!

 

I've heard that some band named Cottonmouth DN does a slammin' cover of "Kick Out the Jams" in their live shows.

 

Is anyone capable of doing the math that would calculate the total number of melodies (forget harmonies/chords) that could be generated from the 88 keys of a piano using up to, but not more than, say, 1000 notes? (1000 is chosen pretty much arbitrarily, but it would allow you to compose up to 250 bars of 4 quarter notes each. ) Then take into account all the rhythmic configurations possible? That'll be a large number!

 

It may be, though, that to qualify as a "song" we might need to put some restrictions on the combinations...or do we?!

 

Peace.

--s-uu

I'm capable of doing the math. It's pretty simple.

 

For note 1, you have 88 choices. For note 2, you have another 88 choices. So your two-note choices are 88*88, or 88^2. And so on, that works out to 88^1000 note choices.

 

88^1000 is more than 3*10^1944. For the non-math-inclined, that number is a 3 followed by 1944 zeros.

 

Granted, in that large number of "songs" are many songs that are just the same note over and over again, of a lot of songs that jump around by many, many octaves.

 

So let's just take two octaves, where you change a note every time (you still might just go back and forth between two notes). That's still 24*23^999, which is more than 5.5*10^1359. Or 55 followed by 1358 zeroes.

 

There's still a lot of songs, and there are certainly an unfathomable number of potential songs once you add in rhythms and such.

[Scoot]

Originally posted by Social Critic:

Would be interested in hearing the "orginal" version and seeing how it compares to the newer ones.

"Raw" would be an understatement describing the MC5 version. It makes Rage sound like Journey.

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Just got the PM from Jeremy. He is truly the man.

[zachg]

i'd have to disagree with the "running out of songs theory". the truth is, in the early days of rock n' roll, half of all songs "written" had similar patterns such as 1-4-5. that doesn't mean that the beatles sold less records with "twist and shout" or "louie louie" wasn't popular. even though they both sound the same

 

what about "all for you" by sister hazel? what about "runaround" from blues traveler? they both came out within the same year or two and have the exact same progression in the same key!!!! but both are classic 90's tunes.

 

i think music gets recycled. even some punk songs will recycle progressions though i can't think of any off hand. we'll always have new songs, they'll just be recycled chords with new lyrics.