Dave Martin Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by getz76: The only problem is no bar-owner will voluntarily ban smoking. They would be at a competitive disadvantage. Nope, there are at least 2 bars here who did ban smoking - They seem to be doing just fine. And Nashville does NOT have the sort of draconian non-smoking ordinances that NYC and California have. Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Martin Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Ace Cracker: yes they will. i've been in plenty of bars that did fine business where the owner chose to have a non-smoking establishment. by chose i mean literally that: he had the option of licensing his establishment for smoking or non-smoking and he chose the latter. To me, that's absolutely the worst kind of government interference - rather than honestly telling the bar owner what to do, they act as though he has a choice (which he really doesn't - not in the long run). if I were a Georgia bar owner, I would certainly consider a lawsuit to be in order. By the way, is that a city or a state regulation? Dave Martin Java Jive Studio Nashville, TN www.javajivestudio.com Cuppa Joe Records www.cuppajoerecords.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
getz out Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by Dave Martin: Originally posted by getz76: The only problem is no bar-owner will voluntarily ban smoking. They would be at a competitive disadvantage. Nope, there are at least 2 bars here who did ban smoking - They seem to be doing just fine. And Nashville does NOT have the sort of draconian non-smoking ordinances that NYC and California have.Two out of how many, though? I'm not arguing whether or not to ban, but I'm being practical here. Out of the 10,000 bars in NYC, how many would voluntarily ban smoking to save $5k a year in taxes? How about $10k a year in taxes? I think there is room for a few niche bars to have non-smoking policies if it were voluntary, but I don't think the market could support a large number of them. It could be argued that you are oppressing the non-smokers at this point by forcing them to attend the 2% of bars that do have non-smoking policies. The question is, who's rights are more important? 1. Person A (non-smoker) to enter a privately run business establishment open to the public and be free of smoke OR 2. Person B (smoker) to smoke in the same establishment There's probably no right answer. I propose a rotation plan; even numbered years go to group 1 and odd numbered years go to group 2. Oh, the life of a consultant... Just my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Sweet Willie_ Posted April 21, 2004 Share Posted April 21, 2004 Originally posted by getz76: I propose a rotation plan; even numbered years go to group 1 and odd numbered years go to group 2. You're in Group 1 if your building number is an odd number and in Group 2 if your building number is an even number. Thus, if two bars/clubs are across the street from one another, at least one will be smoking and the other non-smoking. You're onto something here, Maury! spreadluv Fanboy? Why, yes! Nordstrand Pickups and Guitars. Messiaen knew how to parlay the funk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClarkW Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by Father Gino: It's a trend all right. Even the Prime Minister of France has come out endorsing the banning of smoking in public places. I think you can smoke in the Library or church in France right now.I lived in France for two years and visited a LOT of churches and never once saw anything other than offering candles making any smoke in there. Despite the overwhelming atheism of the population, they do maintain respect for churches. I don't recall going to a library too often, but all of the museums, government buildings, and shopping malls I can think of were no smoking, as were most public transports. Occasionally on longer train voyages there would be a smoking car, but never on subways or buses. I think no-smoking clubs are a great marketing idea, and I wish that entrepreneur well with that endeavor Many such family-friendly or "no sin" digs don't last to the end of their first week of operation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fonz Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Originally posted by Dave Martin: To me, that's absolutely the worst kind of government interference - rather than honestly telling the bar owner what to do, they act as though he has a choice (which he really doesn't - not in the long run). if I were a Georgia bar owner, I would certainly consider a lawsuit to be in order. By the way, is that a city or a state regulation?local policy. it goes county by county. a lot of guys on the site will back me up when i say i am probably one of the more politically conservative people on here and even I think laws like this are a good thing. we do in fact need non-smoking establishments. i admit this freely as a smoker who is annoyed that i have to wait until the end of his dart game to have a cigarette. bar owners will not go non-smoking because they will alientate clientelle. municipalities need more revenue. if a bar owner thinks the extra money he will make will more than compensate for the extra fees and taxes then he should by all means purchase the additional rider. if he takes a bath then he can write it off and not purchase it the following year. you are in essence taxing a luxury. given that tobacco is legal a smoker has the right to smoke but it is still a luxury. the best thing to tax is a luxury as those that can afford said luxury can afford the tax. sure drinking will get more expensive as bar owners raise prices to compensate for the higher fees they pay, but so what? a night out in a bar is a luxury too. if you don't like it buy a few cases of beer, a carton of cigarettes and throw a party. if i had run a bar geared towards a different audience i TOTALLY would have paid the extra fees and taxes and i would have STILL made a killing. so a few roads get paved on my dime. i happen to think that's a good thing. as for whether or not $5000 is enough to deter bar owners from allowing smoking in nyc (which is the goal after all. you are trying to establish NON-smoking venues), of course not. this example was for a much smaller suburb. just an example of what other places are doing that i think works well... or at least better than an outright ban. bans are facist. Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartolini Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 Hmm.. a triplet above.. Without a cigerette in my mouth, seated on the fire exit staircase at the back of my office, I cant dream about people like Jaco, Clarke, Vic, Bernard Edwards, Nathaniel Pillipes, and myself playing at a gig.. and cant dream about this rig, that rig etc. Its a sad situation. But I'm not such a hardline smoker...no smoking during week ends, just 2 a day at office and about 10 at a gig. (sigh, I'm dissapointed with myself.)The world out there is much better than I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russfingers Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 There is no relationship, of a scientific nature to support second hand smoke ststs.I am in NYC .The bar and restaurant business is down 40%!!!.This includes the musicians take as well. The city's bus fleet and congestion at the toll booths are at least 400-500% greater in pollution than a cidgarette.Why-because they can(IMHO) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Wilburn Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 No relationship? You're kidding, right? Even if you reject the numerous studies of secondhand smoke and anecdotal evidence, doesn't it seem strange to assume that directly inhaled smoke is dangerous but the fumes from the end of the cigarette and exhalation are not? Let's not get carried away here. People absolutely have the right to smoke. Personally, I don't believe they absolutely have the right to smoke around me, but I'll deal. However, to completely discount the dangers of smoking as an argument against the ban is easily the weakest arguments. Although still in favor of the ban, I'm far more persuaded by reasoned arguments about air pollution and littering than by dubious claims of non-toxicity. Four String Riot the myspaces, we hates it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy c Posted April 22, 2004 Share Posted April 22, 2004 I've seen California statistics that showed that immediate drop in bar business was more than made up in the following years. Obviously, opinions are more important than scientific research. Just don't stand between a smoker and his cigs...especially if he is a member of the N.R.A. Free download of my cd!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fonz Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by jeremyc: Just don't stand between a smoker and his cigs...especially if he is a member of the N.R.A.that would be me ! i personally love smokers who criticize me for driving an s.u.v. Eeeeeehhhhhhhhh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockinredneck69 Posted April 23, 2004 Share Posted April 23, 2004 Originally posted by Bumpcity: I would love it if the bars in Washington banned smoking. That would rule in such enormously huge ways, I can't even begin to find the words to explain it.Its coming soon I believe...Pierce Co. has tried it, took it back and then put it back (and this time they "mean it") I don't smoke anymore, and hate like hell when I realize after a night out that I smell like an ashtray. To be honest though... I do have a nasty habit of chewing my tobacco. There are no laws against it but when I'm in a place where I can't spit...well, you get the idea. I think smoking in certain places really should'nt be a problem for that reason. Donnie Peterson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted April 23, 2004 Author Share Posted April 23, 2004 Follow up... Well that was one of the most enjoyable gigs I have played. Keep in mind this bar I am speaking about is one in which the owner's themselves made the choice to make it a non-smoking establishment, first of all. Keep in mind also, that this was a 'Wednesday night' gig. The place was packed! The joint is very upscale and classy looking. The inhouse sound guy knew his shit and was exceptionally friendly and helpful, the money was good, we were paid the second we stepped off the stage, and the women who showed up to enjoy a smoke-free evening of live music were unusually attractive. I have definitely seen the future, and it's a wonderful thang! I didn't even have to shower and throw all my clothes in the wash when I got home. Beautiful!!! Hope we get called back. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onelove Posted April 24, 2004 Share Posted April 24, 2004 I personally completely agree with banning of smoking in any form on a personal level, on a political level I think it's dangerous whenever government tries to take away a person's rights... it would be much nicer if people could just stop smoking but it's obviously not that simple. On a side note, you've gotta love Canada... we're banning smoking in so many places but we're very close to legalizing marijuana... go figure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Afro_Man Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 Originally posted by Edendude: Follow up... Well that was one of the most enjoyable gigs I have played. Keep in mind this bar I am speaking about is one in which the owner's themselves made the choice to make it a non-smoking establishment, first of all. Keep in mind also, that this was a 'Wednesday night' gig. The place was packed! The joint is very upscale and classy looking. The inhouse sound guy knew his shit and was exceptionally friendly and helpful, the money was good, we were paid the second we stepped off the stage, and the women who showed up to enjoy a smoke-free evening of live music were unusually attractive. I have definitely seen the future, and it's a wonderful thang! I didn't even have to shower and throw all my clothes in the wash when I got home. Beautiful!!! Hope we get called back.I am sorry to say this but that place isn't real, you've got a bad fever and have been halucinating for the past 5 days. Nic "i must've wrote 30 songs the first weekend i met my true love ... then she died and i got stuck with this b****" - Father of the Pride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69tele Posted April 26, 2004 Share Posted April 26, 2004 I hope so... European bars are notoriosly bad for this... And coming home not smelling like an ash tray would be nice ! I'd have to cancel my bulk purchases of febreeze thou :-( LOL Ernie If in doubt leave it Out ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted April 26, 2004 Author Share Posted April 26, 2004 AfroBoy... It does kinda sound like a dream gig, doesn't it?! My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edendude Posted May 4, 2004 Author Share Posted May 4, 2004 Just got the call-back... We're booked back at the classy non-smoking jazz bar on the 14th. My Last Band Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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