trouble making the switch

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Hello everyone - my first post here.

 

I've recently switched from four to five string basses (about three months now). I've been playin' fours since I was 15 (about 18 years - god, I SHOULD be really good by now!) and I'm havin' a little trouble adjusting.

While practicing at home or playing in the recording studio I really don't have any problems but when I'm playing live - and everything is happening fast - I keep getting lost and making stupid mistakes in songs. It's driving me crazy and I'm sure my band mates aren't too happy about it either.

 

My questions are these:

 

Have you had similar problems making this transition?

 

How long did it take you to get to the point where you stopped screwing up live (or only screwing up as much as you did before the switch)?

 

Guess I'm just looking for a little moral support - or maybe some co-misery

[73 P Bass]

I've never been able to make the switch; I just really haven't been that interested. The few times I have played a 5, I would have a similar experience to your live one; I got lost.

As far as making mistakes live, I've been screwing up live for 16 years, and probably keep on for a whole lot longer. But to minimize your problem, rehearse as if you where live. Move around, or whatever to simulate the conditions that screw you up. Practice, Practice, Practice.

[davebrownbass]

I've never made a switch, although I bought a 5 a couple of years ago. My son plays it now...he loves it.

 

Nothing sounds like my Warwick Streamer 4.

 

I do think I'd have a few problems to start...most people say they settle down after a while.

[ClarkW]

It took me a little while. Probably about three months, but then again, I had only been playing on a 4-string for two or three years, so I didn't have as much relearning to do as you. Now, after nearly 2 years of playing pretty much exclusively on 5-string basses, it's the 4-strings that feel weird.

[TShakazBlackRoots]

Yesterday, I 'discovered' the DGCF tuning style on my 4 string! Beautiful I'm now gonna put my switch over to a 5 string on indefinate hold.

Funny enough, I rarely make mistakes in studio. Infact I play alot better in the studio than when practising at home. I love laying/creating basslines in the studio.

 

As for making mistakes live, I haven't played a live gig yet but I'm sure when I make a mistake, I'll be able to cover it up well

[...]

When I made the switch from 4 to 5 I was in college and playing a lot; we're talking 4-5 hours a day or more, seven days a week.

 

It took me about 3 months to really settle in and feel 'at home' on the 5 string. Ever since then I've been able to switch back and forth and not have any problems. It's just a matter of spending a lot of time with it.

[BassDodger]

First post here for me as well...I see a question I might be able to help out on...

 

I've been playing for over 20 years, almost exclusively 4 string. I had a 5 string about 12 years ago, but gave up on it due to this same confusion you stated and the fact that it sounded terrible (cheap bass).

 

About 6 months ago, I dove back into it due to my band's needs. Here's some tips that I have discovered. These may or may not work for you, but it helped me. Understand I learned these things by myself and you and I may be two totally different kinds of bass players, but I'm gonna try to help you...

 

1. Get used to the idea that you now have a "middle" string and that string is an A- the most used string on your bass. Do not worry about the transition back to a 4 string- your hands will know the difference.

 

2. Wear the 5 string higher or lower than you would your 4 stringer. This will let your body know that your playing a different instrument. I know this sounds silly, but bear with me- it helps. Once you get "reasonable" with the 5 string, you can wear it like the 4 again.

 

3. (If you play with your fingers, not a pick) Anchor your thumb on the B string with the 5 stringer unless of course, your playing the B string. This give your right hand that all important "point of reference". Reasoning behind this is so that you won't get lost if the B string is "unavailable". Now, if your worried that when you switch back to the 4 stringer you will anchor on the E string, trust me- you won't. I don't know the reason behind that. Just something that I noticed. It's like your right hand has a brain of it's own sometimes.

 

4. Do NOT mix-and-match the two basses with the same song! Very important! If you playing song A with the 4 stringer and it doesn't need the 5 stringer- don't play the 5 with song A. I'm gonna assume that you'll have both basses on stage when you play- always a good practice. But don't detune the 4 stringer to a D- play it with the 5 and keep it that way. See, this is a problem I ran into- I often became confused while playing live (never practice) and I "felt" like playing the 4 to a song I learned on the 5 and vise-versa. Always a good idea to learn the song (or re-learn) with the one bass and stick to it. Later on when you've become proficient with both basses, you'll be able to do that and will, in turn, amaze yourself. But don't worry about it now while you're starting out- it will come.

 

5. Relax. Yea, I know it seems like rocket sceince at first, but get this: your a rocket sceintist- you've been doing this for a while now. It's SIMPLE- it's just one more string on the low end, that's all. Everything else conforms to the same rules as your 4 string bass- just one more string. So take it in that context and have fun with it!

 

6. Don't look at your guitar player's fretboard for a few weeks. Your a bass player: he should be looking at yours. If he gets all confused, that's HIS problem, not yours. You're the one that learned the song 2 weeks ago. You're the one that is never late to practice. You're the one that gets the money at the end of the night because he's too drunk or is too busy chasing skirts.

 

Ok- that last one was kinda out of line, but you get my point.

 

Now- timeframe...

 

It took me about 3 weeks to get to where it became "comfortable" onstage. Mind you, we had 2 practices a week and gigged at least once a week, not to mention a few hours of personal practice in that time. That was about 4 months ago. Last couple of gigs, I was forced to play a 4 stringer song with the 5 stringer because my guitar player "got all excited", annoucing the song before I could switch and I handled the transition flawlessly. Same thing happened with a 5 stringer song. At that point, I realized I was good to go.

 

Once again, these are things that helped me. I hope they help you.

 

Good Luck,

 

Matt

[J.A.]

i know the feeling. after 6 years of 4 i switched to 5 in july. while i am not as confident or comfortable as i am with a 4, i'm making progress. the 4 feels like a stick when i play it. i just keep plugging away, and eventually i hope to be better at both 4 and 5 string through the experience

[tnb]

I did the cold turkey method. Traded my only bass at the time (a 4 string) for a 5 string, put in a couple of days of practice and left for a 3 or 4 week gig in northeast Nevada.

 

It was very humbling, to say the least, but it worked out. I felt comfortable after about 6 months. Haven't seriously considered going back to 4 strings.

[dcr]

I recently made the switch. As people have suggested, the key is spending time on the new instrument (you should look at it as a new instrument!) as your main instrument. That means when you sit down to play, it's the one you grab. The others gather dust for a while.

 

For me, & for a lot of people, the hardest thing at first is muting. I found that it was pretty easy, eventually, to learn to keep using the same basic method I use on 4--move the thumb to mute the adjacent string--but keeping the side of of the thumb against that "extra" string. I hope that makes sense; my hand now stays more parallel to the face of the instrument, so that part of the hand is always muting the low strings no matter what string I'm playing.

 

The next hardest thing is just keeping track of where I am on the fretboard. Time fixes that. But you've got to treat the 5 as your main instrument while you're learning.

 

Finally, for me, is getting a sense of what those notes are on the "extra" string. Two things have helped with this a lot. One is playing a lot of bass lines that were originally played on 5. It forces you to learn the notes. The other is playing songs that work just as well on 4, but in some cases discovering that the "extra" string can save you a hand shift (e.g. one song I've been working on hits a low note on beat one, & then notes up around the 12th fret area on 2+ and 3+; having one more lower string means not having to move almost the whole length of the neck).

 

Did I mention that you need to make the 5 your main instrument the whole time you're learning?

 

Obviously I'm still learning. On music that I'm very comfortable with, I wouldn't hesitate playing the 5 live. (In fact, it's the bass I'm using 99% of the time with my new band.) However, I think in situations where I'm having to act more "on the fly," I'm still more comfortable with the 4. But that will come in time. I can feel it!

[HypnoBassMan]

I had an real bad time making the switch. I think my main problem was that I got used to looking at my left hand (fretting hand) while I played and learned to orient to the neck by learning all the notes on the E string. Everything was in reference to where it was in relation to that string. Then when I switched to the 5'er I was totally disoriented.

 

Now I won't play a 4 string. I'm getting comfortable with the 5'er and I know that spending any time of a 4 string will just goof me up again.

 

My advice is that if you are going to move to the 5-string then ditch the 4-string, at least for a long long time.

 

Now I'm looking for a 5-string passive Fender Precision as a second. See what I got myself into. It would be easy to find on in a 4-string.

 

I do really love my Fender Active Jazz Deluxe V though.

[musicalhair]

Here is how I made the adjustment, I looked at the four string from the E string as my point of orientation. I switched to the A string as my point of orientation because on the five string it is the middle string. So, I practiced my scales and arpeggios and stuff from the A string up, and then the A string down.

 

Once I made the adjustment, it has been a breeze going back and forth. But, I don't really play the 5 string or 6 for that matter the same way as the four. They serve different purposes or moods for me.

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Hi guys. Thanks for all the feedback.

 

I know, I just need to spend more time with the instrument and I'm sure it'll get better (can't get much worse)

 

Originally posted by HypnoBassMan:

My advice is that if you are going to move to the 5-string then ditch the 4-string, at least for a long long time.

Already done. I now have a fretless and fretted five - no longer own a four-string. I figure this will force me to get used to it - no way to fall back on what's comfortable.

 

I shall continue to suck for at least a few more gigs, I guess

 

Keith

[BenLoy]

I've never played a 5 live, but I played one in the studio and didn't have any problems.

 

I remember I had to occasionally remind myself that if I was gonna jump from a high fill down to a low F# or something that I now needed to hit the second fret on what I instictively felt was my "A string," even though it was the E.

 

I also had to remind myself to rest my thumb on the E string when playing on the A, D, and G to keep the B and E string muted, otherwise the E would always start ringin'.

 

The mental games I play with myself...

[getz out]

Easy answer for a quick fix is to not look down during the gig.

 

Long term answer is practice.

[bc_dup1]

I remember reading a nice self-deprecatory story by Marcus Miller who admitted when he first got a 5 he arrogantly thought he could play it onstage without much advance preparation. With Miles!! He made a few howlers and Miles gave him a very hard time about it. Sometimes godlike talent isn't enough on its own

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

I remember I had to occasionally remind myself that if I was gonna jump from a high fill down to a low F# or something that I now needed to hit the second fret on what I instictively felt was my "A string," even though it was the E.

This is exactly what I'm talkin' 'bout. I instinctively try to play the B as the E and the E as the A.

 

Stupid brain.

 

Keith

[wishicouldplaylikescottamb]

Originally posted by bc:

I remember reading a nice self-deprecatory story by Marcus Miller who admitted when he first got a 5 he arrogantly thought he could play it onstage without much advance preparation. With Miles!! He made a few howlers and Miles gave him a very hard time about it. Sometimes godlike talent isn't enough on its own

Yeah, I think I fell into the same trap. Only one extra string - no problem. I'm a professional

 

Keith

[Wonderdog]

Another good thread topic.

 

I also played a 4 from the time I was 14 until recently when i bought the 5 (I'm now 38). It was kind of funny how confusing it was at first - of course I was only at practice. The problem I think I was having was that I was trying to fully implement the B string into my play right from the start, which made me confuse it with the E.

 

During practice, our guitarist suggested that I was trying to use the B too much and that it was diminishing the effect of that extra thick, gut churning low accent at certain key points. I couldn't help but agree with him, and promptly changed my thinking. I, for now, consider my bass a 4 string with an extra "bonus" string on top of the E. Once I separated the B from the rest of the bass it was the only way I could look at it. Now it's a 4 string with a glaringly obvious extra string at the top.

 

I'm sure as time goes by I will be able to incorporate it fully if I so desire, but as for now I am enjoying using it for great accents at the beginning and end of tunes, and to finish out descending chops.

 

As an added benefit, I think our guitarist was right. Using the B (especially at lower frets) is a stunning point-maker live, and is best used like dog treats - dispensed sparingly so as to keep it a treat for the listeners.