Most people on this forum are middle/upper class

[bubba upright]

Well...

 

I've definitely enjoyed reading the responses to this thread. Most everyone made some valid points to answer what was not an entirely clear question (no offense, Cup.)

My 2 cents:

 

My grandfather was an orphaned Scottish immigrant, arriving in the states as a card-cutter by trade (not one of your higher-paid professions.) He worked hard and met a lovely lady with whom he opened a modest grocery store. He did not ever live richly, but provided the means to get my father and his brothers a good education so that they could have the luxury that Grandpa never had. My father made a great living and provided well for myself and my sisters. I always loved music-specifically the bass-but never thought that I could make a decent living at it, so I got into real estate. Made a great living at that, have a lovely wife, child and home, but I realized that I wasn't happy without music.

 

I quit my job, got into playing 4-7 nights a week( with a little help from my friends) and I work days helping to manage a small local music store and giving lessons. I am a very happy man today, to be sure.

 

I'm not ashamed of being middle-upper middle class at all. I don't have some of the cool toys that some other forumites have, but I make do with what equipment I do have. I can't justify owning a $3,000 ( electric bass) instrument when the ones I have work just fine. We've got more pressing economic issues at home (mortgages, etc..)

 

As far as politics, religion, etc. go, I'm glad to see that we leave those discussions to the entirely-too-uptight SSS forum next door.

 

I don't know if I'm in the "clique" or not, or even if one exists, but I do feel comfortable talking to anyone here. Lots of good people.

 

I also try to be as correct as possible when it comes to grammar and spelling. It's very important to communicate well in any field.

 

BTW-the mars probes are pretty cool. Man has to expand intellectually and space is our next big journey...

 

That what you were looking for, Cup?

[bassplayer5217]

i don't think i count because i am still in high school, but here it goes:

 

the way you all talk about gear - hesitant to seem like everybody else should care about my bass gear

 

how and when you buy it - with cash once a year (last year it was an upgrade from my 25 W crate to my 100 W Ampeg BA-115)

 

what it means to your life in general - I use bass as an escape from the pressured life of a teenager in typical suburbia

 

auto-moblies - I inherited my mom's '97 volvo wagon when she got a newer one

 

grammar - well, let's just say my SAT's speak for themselves: 700 V 800 M, so I guess my grammar could be better?

 

language - English and some high school spanish (the latter is nothing to brag about)

 

spelling - I try to spell well but as long as errors are occasional, i don't check to furiously

 

women - gotta love'm

 

careers - I plan to major in computer science or biotechnology depending on where I go to college. I hope to be a professional researcher at an establishment such as NIH, NIST, or a university

 

education - important!

 

musical approach - make it funky!

 

- germain

[getz out]

Originally posted by Nicklab:

when it gets brought up in a political context, say when it pertains to taxes and how the tax brackets work, the political rightwing refers to that sort of argument as inciting class warfare. They just don't want people to know how much better the rich people have it than the middle and lower classes.

Sorry, Nick, but that is a load of crap in my opinion.

 

I paid more in taxes this year than some people make in a year. I work 80+ hours a week for a good portion of the year and usually work about 3,000 in total a year. I am what certain politicians refer to as "rich." Am I rich? Not if you ask me.

 

People in this country making more than $60k annually pay a disportionate share of income taxes. Those making less than $30k pay very little. Those making less than $30k that have kids are not only NOT paying ANY taxes, but they are actually receiving credits in return for their contributions to Social Security (Earned Income Tax Credit).

 

Do rich people live better than poor people? Yes in some respects. Do they get to drive a Mercedes and live in a nice flat with fantastic electronic gadgets? Sure. Is that wrong? Do you want to take that away from them?

 

I love you man, but I couldn't let the rhetoric slip unanswered. I am not complaining about the current tax system; a marginal tax rate is a far compromise between a socialist welfare state and pure capitalism. However, I don't think it would be fair to ask someone like me to pay even more in taxes than I already do.

[Nicklab]

When I'm talking about "rich" people, I'm talking about people who are making mid-6 figure incomes or higher. I'm well aware of what middle class is in the NY area, and it's actually quite different from other areas of the country. A 60K income doesn't go as far as people would think in a metropolitan area. The "rich" that I refer to are the upper 1% of the United States, not people who are working for a living.

[73 P Bass]

Last night my wife and I went out for the first time in a very long time. We went all out. Paid for parking, got a bottle of wine, even appetizers. It cost us about $130 (a weeks groceries). This was an extravagance for us, that we greatly enjoyed. After dinner we went to a friend's apartment for a little party.

There was a young man at the party who although 14 years my junior, made considerably more money than I. He hates his job, I don't, I actually enjoy what I do.

We are by no means poor, but we do have to think about what we spend. We own a modest house, our children are well clothed and fed, and we are happy.

[bassplayer5217]

something funny I thought I could point out: CupMcMali hasn't posted a reply yet, hmmmm

[jeremy c]

Originally posted by Nicklab:

I think I understand where you're coming from, Cup. From experience with my friends in the UK and some general knowledge, I've noticed that people in the UK and Ireland are more acutely aware of their class status.

 

In the US, the definition of classes is much more flexible. It is related to income and education, both of which can change drastically within a generation (or a few years).

 

We don't talk about social classes much here, except as a political concept. Most people like to consider themselves to be in the middle class, whether they actually are or not. The definitions of the classes are very hazy here, so maybe most people are right.

 

I remember in the 60's that students and radicals were trying to organize the "working class to rise up and defeat their oppressors". The only problem was that the working class people (in Detroit) all lived in the suburbs, had cars and boats in their driveways and didn't feel oppressed. Of course that was before our manufacturing started being moved overseas.

(oops, sorry, I just went O.T. with that last paragraph) (ojection)(sustained)(please instruct the jury to ignore the previous remarks).

[Nicklab]

Our system is definitely flexible when it comes to class. I'm fairly certain Andrew Carnegie was a self-made man, and he became one of the richest men in America in his time. The same with Bill Gates. Hell, he didn't even graduate from college.

 

One thing that I think is distinct difference between the UK and the US? A landed nobility. The UK has an established nobility that is traced back through lineage. That is probably one of the key elements that makes the social classes more well defined in the UK.

[prophetgtree]

well, as a high schooler on the verge of college, I am in the process of choosing what I want to do with the rest of my life. On one hand, I would love to know that I am going to live well, without worry of not having enough money. To be financially comfortable at all times and to be able to handle surprises that could arrise. On the other hand, I have got what I want to do with my life! I would love to be a musician in some form or fassion. I would also love to be a youth minister at a Catholic church. I do not know if you guys know what youth ministers make, but it is definitely not enough to support an upper class status. However, I also have to choose how I want to be rich. Sure, I may be viewed at middle class if I went with a job that did not pay, but I could be extremely happy. I could makes lots of money and be very poor at the same time... but that is not the point.

It is tough to choose what I would like to do, how I want to live, how much I want to make...

 

Currently I would say I am upper middle class. I do not face the same money issues as many of do because well... my parents pay for it. But I pay for all my own bass gear, my own little victory when I can afford something I have wanted.

 

My family is comfortable, we have nice things and are able to handle surprises (like a car wreck).

[73 P Bass]

Originally posted by prophetgtree:

well, as a high schooler on the verge of college, I am in the process of choosing what I want to do with the rest of my life. On one hand, I would love to know that I am going to live well, without worry of not having enough money. To be financially comfortable at all times and to be able to handle surprises that could arrise. On the other hand, I have got what I want to do with my life! I would love to be a musician in some form or fassion. I would also love to be a youth minister at a Catholic church. I do not know if you guys know what youth ministers make, but it is definitely not enough to support an upper class status. However, I also have to choose how I want to be rich. Sure, I may be viewed at middle class if I went with a job that did not pay, but I could be extremely happy. I could makes lots of money and be very poor at the same time... but that is not the point.

It is tough to choose what I would like to do, how I want to live, how much I want to make...

 

Currently I would say I am upper middle class. I do not face the same money issues as many of do because well... my parents pay for it. But I pay for all my own bass gear, my own little victory when I can afford something I have wanted.

 

My family is comfortable, we have nice things and are able to handle surprises (like a car wreck).

When I went to college, I thought I was going to "be" one thing, changed to another, and finally another. The only thing that any of them have to do with what I'm actually doing is my understanding of aesthetics, color, and that I work with my hands (I have a BFA in sculpture).

Oh! I use high school algebra all the time too!

I guess my point is, you don't need to decide what you are going to do with your life, until you know. Best advice; follow your heart.

[getz out]

Nick,

 

FACT: The top 3 percent of filers (those making $100,000-plus) paid approximately 40 percent of the total taxes for the 2002 tax year. Check www.irs.gov if you want the stats.

 

There is an myth that the richest of the rich do not pay taxes. This is a myth. There is no way out of taxes, even if you're extremely rich.

 

Don't forget, our system works on taxation of INCOME, not wealth. If you come from old money, and you're not earning a lot of income, then guess what? NO TAX. That's because there is no double-jeopardy in taxation (this is simplified here); you don't tax the same income twice.

 

Example:

 

Person A earns $30k a year. She has $5k in a savings account.

 

Person B earns $0 income. She has $5 million in a non-interest bearing savings account.

 

Person A pays taxes and Person B doesn't. However, that $5 million has already be taxed when it was origninally earned.

 

Now, sometimes you'll see Person B earn a lot of interest income and still not pay taxes? Why? There are certain investments that are tax free (usually municipal bonds). These investments, however, earn a lower yield than taxable investments. In the end, it ends up a nearly even swap on net interest income.

 

Don't spout a party line if it's not the truth.

[61Pbass]

Hey Haggard, not trying to quibble, but re-read what I posted....

 

Originally posted by 61Pbass:

...Most of the posters here are not from third world countries, but from civilized industrial societies, and mostly the U.S...

I never said that there was no one on the board from third world countries. I said MOST of us are not. I stand by that. There's a big difference....

[Tom Capasso]

Hey Cup,

 

This question has bothered me. Not because I'm uncomfortable about being middle class. Not because some of us have disposable income for gear, while some of us (me) have to buy carefully, while some of us truly struggle.

 

It has bothered me for two reasons. One is that I have very little understanding of what life is like outside the US. I don't know what your life is like - maybe it's much harder than I assumed. Maybe you won't have much of a future no matter how much education you get or how hard you work. I don't know.

 

The other reason is the clique comment. Yeah - we have some people that type before they think, jump to conclusions, or are not always putting themselves in the other person's place. But I don't see us ganging up on people very much. And when they do, I don't see a select group. For example, when people nail BGO, it seems like it's just about everybody diving in. Most of all, I feel like people have been downright warm when answering anything you've posted. Equipment threads, band and gig threads, etc. I see people supportive and wishing you well. Did I miss something? If I did, please let me know...

 

Tom

[Nicklab]

Maury, my point regarding taxes was to illustrate that the issue of class in America only tends to come up when it's in reference to taxes, related issues and the argument of "Class warfare" that gets used in politics. I'm honestly not interest in debating socio-economics, and didn't intend to take this thread down that path.

[lug]

I say, "Let them eat cake!" all the time.

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

In the US, the definition of classes is much more flexible. It is related to income and education, both of which can change drastically within a generation (or a few years).

I wondered how the 'class system' worked over the in USA, I'd assumed it was pretty directly related to wealth but I hadn't considered that the University you went to would have a bearing. I suppose on those lines if you're really rich or a famous and successful acacdemic you'd be considered upper class - right? Or just upper-middle class? What about all the Hollywood movie stars - are they upper class? (This isn't rhetorical, I'd just like some enlightenment from the US perspective).

 

In the UK the class system has a long history - it takes more like centuries than decades to move from one end to the other - and has it's roots in the medievel feudal system. Looking at the 1901 census, my ancestors (great grandparents and above) were factory workers and suchlike. True working class though one step above the servant classes. My great grandfather became an electrical fitter (a step up, maybe lower middle class) and travelled to India where he ran a plantation for the Indian owner. My grandfather was born in Bombay and on returning to England was fortunate to gain a scholarship to Manchester Grammar School (one of the top schools in the country) and then get an engineering degree from UMIST. He then sent my father to MGS who also became an engineer and things went similarly for myself. I guess I'm between middle and upper middle class. My girlfriend's family were upper class in 1901 - landed gentry - and spent the next few decades wasting their fortune. They're probably also between middle and upper middle class now.

 

It's not uncommon for working class people to be wealthy - take the stereotypical Essex (outside East London) 80s scrap metal dealer, the 'nouveau riche' was they were commonly known. I guess most wealthy people in the US are 'nouveau riche' - didn't most of the population go there to seek their fortune, not to extend an already existing fortune?

 

I'd say it's near impossible to get into the upper class with money alone - it depends on years of historical precendent, or being made a Knight or Lord. Whatever one is deemed to be, it matters very little nowadays, the 'old boy network' and artistocratic priviledges and prejudice are finally falling, which can only be a good thing. For an even longer-rooted and sadly better surviving class system, look at the Indian 'caste' system.

 

Do Americans often consider their 'class' or is it an unimportant throwback from the Victorian era?

 

Alex

[bc_dup1]

Yes I almost posted on this yesterday - I think "middle class" traditionally means something different in America, basically closer to the meaning you'd expect the term to have, people who are neither rich nor poor. In the UK the upper class was the aristocracy and the middle class was the class below that - professionals, the upper tiers of the services and the church, trading families who'd prospered for more than one generation. "Middle class" has connotations of privilege in the UK that it doesn't have in the US.

 

I'm prepared to say mea culpa to a middle class professional job, which means I can afford relatively high end gear. Yes it is ironic that if I were a better musician I might have turned pro and not been able to afford such good equipment. I DID entertain thoughts of a pro career, and one of the reasons I didn't do it was because I did not fancy the probably precarious economic situation. I still envy people who make a living from playing music, and I refuse to feel guilty because I earn a reasonably comfortable income from working very hard at something much less interesting than music.

[Tom Capasso]

Alex - this is difficult for me to answer (maybe Willie can help). From my limited perspective, class is more about money (and job title) than anything else. After that, there are distinctions (educated vs. uneducated, etc.).

 

I don't know if this example will help, but I offer it (and folks like dcr and Willie should appreciate it). My brother-in-law lived (he passed away 3 years ago from cancer hence the past tense) in a small town in upstate New York named Geneva. He had his PhD and was a world reknown expert on soil insects. OK - for you and me that doesn't mean much, but in his world he was at the top of his game. Geneva has a research station that is part of Cornell University (considered a top school). In Geneva, the scientists at the school were considered the top class of the town (which was otherwise pretty small). The scientists lived in the best parts of town, and socialized with each other (remember that most had come for the academics and had left their family elsewhere). Yet the house was not any better than mine (and I am in the middle of my area), and outside his "world", he received little more than a nod for his position. People figured he must be smart (which he was), but nobody considered him "upper class". Some of his associates considered themselves "better", and had their own clique. Mike walked in that world with friends or to keep relationships up. He was not the type to think of himself as "better" (he grew up a hippie and was very liberal and anti-class).

 

The bottom line here is that he may have been "somebody" in the UK (I don't know for sure, but reading into Alex's note), but he was just another guy here.

 

Tom

[SteveC]

I am not upper-middle class. If my gear and GAS situation make one think that, they are wrong. I buy and sell and talk about gear and stuff becasue it's fun, and people here are interested in the same and have similar bouts of GAS as I do.

 

I do not really have disposable income to do this. I am in debt, like a good American should be. I wish I had more control, like others on this forum.

 

I'm beginning to settle down now as I have more important but equally fiscally demanding priorities in the near future. RIngs, house, etc.

[getz out]

I make more money than my bandmates. In some cases, a LOT more. While I drop $2k on a instrument or $2k on a recording rig, they cannot imagine doing that without significant sacrifices elsewhere in their lives.

 

So, we may be in different "classes." However, that doesn't change the way we play together. The beauty of music is that no class is required. It doesn't matter if my drummer is black or white, male or female, or if the guitarist is a Buddist or an agnostic; we're playing music.

 

It's the same at my day gig. It's about achieving a result, not about WHO is achieving that result.

[_Sweet Willie_]

OK, here's one quick'n'dirty answer about some of the ways in which "social class" is measured or studied by us American social scientists.

 

Income and wealth: Both can be used as indicators of class status. Income is what you've got coming in (paychecks, salary, interest on accounts, etc.). Wealth is what you've got put away and the value of your property and investments. (Clarified nicely by Maury.) However, just because you've got a lot of money, doesn't mean you're claerly or automatically "upper class" -- e.g., someone who wins the Big Game lottery for millions of dollars does not automatically break into the "upper class" social networks, even if he/she has entered an "upper class" tax bracket, or in this case, has an "upper class" checkbook balance.

 

Education: Class is also often ascertained by looking at education. This most commonly is tied to how many years of education an individual has completed or the "highest" degree earned. It can also be tied to specific schools attended (e.g., Did you go to a long-standing northeast prep school? What university did you attend? Etc.). Researchers who study children and youth often use the years of education attained by their parents as one measure of social class.

 

Occupation: What someone does for work is another commonly used class measure. Blue collar or white collar? Skilled profession that requires specific training? "Professional" or not? Management? Etc.

 

Inherited status: While there isn't the same tradition of "nobility" or "royalty" as in some European nations, there still exist "social registers" that list American familes with a long history of high social status (and almost always wealth). Often these registers are local or regional, but there is status and class standing associated with being listed in them.

 

There is also a distinction between "old" money and "new" money, and although people falling in both categories might be considered in the same social class, their status is different, and this is often obvious in their lifestyles. Often folks from "old" money are less ostentatious about their wealth than folks from "new" money. The families listed in social registers are often "old" money. "Old" money families are often more connected in the political and economic worlds (i.e., they have clout) than "new" money families.

 

There are also other more unique measures used to measure "class", based on one's behaviors. For example, one measure that has been used is whether or not someone has a subscription to or regularly reads the The New York Times or The Wall Street Journal. Sometimes even whether someone regularly reads a daily newspaper at all.

 

Class can also be based on your social network -- the "who you know" phenomenon. If you travel and socialize in different class circles, you will take on some of that class identity, even though your income or education or profession, etc., might not correlate.

 

However, all of this is from a social science perspective, where often the term "social class" is replaced by or used in conjunction with "socio-economic status". However, in our daily lives, most of us do make interpretations, either actively or passively, about others' class status by how they speak, what they wear, what they drive, where they went to school, who they know, what they do for work, etc.

 

The play/movie Six Degrees of Separation is an interesting study on class in America, in its own twisted way.

 

Perhaps I'll comment more directly in response to Cup's initial post later.

 

Peace.

--SW

 

Oh yeah, one more thing: lots of Americans have access to the internet. Even if they don't have computers and internet access from home, they often do at work or at school. They almost always can get on-line from their local public libraries, public schools, and even community colleges and universities. Nonetheless, I think many of you would be surprised at how far reaching the internet is, even into the poorer households in the U.S.A. -- even if it's an old computer and a 28.8 modem...

[bc_dup1]

That's quick'n'dirty?

 

Seriously I'm sure the various class determinants in the US are just as complex as in the UK. The differences are that our class structure is older and is rooted in a time when there were very significant barriers to class mobility.

 

Class barriers have definitely loosened up in the UK over the last couple of generations, both in the sense that there is more mobility and also less status is accorded to "being from the right background". My feeling is that in the US on the other hand there may be a threat to its traditional "classless society" as wealth differentials and low death duties increase the ability of parents to pass the rewards of their success unto the next generation(s).

[Cup]

Wow have I caused a stink! I was simply trying to shake things up, try and get some people to drop the pretence around here. All of what I said was typed in jest, though I admit some of the (intended) jokes were jagged. I just think that there's a feeling around here you can't annoy the top dogs. Sometimes a topic is raised, and the responses depends more on who asked the question, rather than the question.

 

My tiny mind wondered why this was so?

 

Obviously I approached this quite clumsily, maybe there is no way to raise this without causing hassle. I'd prefer it if every question, who-ever it is asked by received the same attention, and that newer members were treated a little better and not jumped on if their use of English isn't perfect, or if they worship Flea or Geezer or who-ever.

 

Cup.

[prophetgtree]

Originally posted by 73 P Bass:

When I went to college, I thought I was going to "be" one thing, changed to another, and finally another. The only thing that any of them have to do with what I'm actually doing is my understanding of aesthetics, color, and that I work with my hands (I have a BFA in sculpture).

Oh! I use high school algebra all the time too!

I guess my point is, you don't need to decide what you are going to do with your life, until you know. Best advice; follow your heart.

Thank you. I am trying to know, but you are right, I still have time to decide! Great advice! I'm trying to follow my heart... and we will see where that goes!

 

[_Sweet Willie_]

Originally posted by bc:

That's quick'n'dirty?

(I'm in the middle of writing my dissertation right now. Trying to explain anything in less than 5pp is "quick'n'dirty" in my world at the moment. )

 

Cup, I think in some ways you're right. You're also not the first to point this out -- I know, for example, that music-man has made a similarly valid point in the past. Also, your underlying premise that all posters, no matter how new, old, experienced, etc., deserve respectful treatment is correct.

 

Personally I try to treat each poster with respect. I also wouldn't be surprised if a review of my posts revealed that they were more thorough (and maybe also more frequent) for longer-time members of the LDL.

 

I also see parallels between this "virtual" forum and real in-person contacts. Let's face it, we interact differently in person with people with whom we've already developed relationships in comparison to people whom we've just met, and are still "feeling out". BUT, one shouldn't be rude or off-putting right off the bat to someone they don't know. Especially someone who is just at the beginning of learning the norms of a group or community.

 

The one thing we all have going for us, for sure, is a mutual interest in music, and bass in particular.

 

Peace.

--SW

[Mike Bear]

First off let me express my disgust in myself for posting on this topic. And may it linger on...

 

I never for a moment wondered about anyone's financial levels while reading posts and learning member's posts and personalities.

 

This is a music oriented forum. That's why I disgust myself with throwing in my two cents here. But, this I can't resist and will have to blame myself for my frustration.

 

I believe there are many well off people in here and many people in the middle, as well as those who are just getting by. If I wasn't a musician. I'd have probably twice the money I do now not spending it on gear. That's not saying much because I don't necessarily buy a new bass every year or two years, nor amps for that matter. When I do get I hope to be quality when I get it. Most of us just hope to spare some extra cash to keep our strings fresh and our gear sounding the best it can because we value and love it so much. Thus, the enthusiastic talk about it. I was born with the gene that does not permit buyers remorse. So when I want to buy a CD or an accessory for my gear or a piece of equipment, I'll do it in a heartbeat if I have that money for a split second. Also the reason I know I'm not ready for children even though I'd like them. I just have a passion for filling my musical interests. I decide to live a certain way to afford my musical habit and I'm guessing this is true for many here. Some of my favorite bands that tour can stay on the road for a year, sell a good amount of albums and complain that they are just then will be able to pay rent with thier musical lives.

 

My point (though very weak) is I can't even begin to think or imagine what everyone's financial status in this forum is. Mainly I'd just concern myself with if they are writing about thier passion of music and the related things that come with it. Oh and I also take notice when they are ignorant or jackasses. That doesn't supercede any financial class. That was not aimed at the person who started this forum by the way.

 

I've only been posting here a few weeks but I find everyone very friendly and cool. Even when there's opinions at total odds, I don't see any TRUE hostility. I believe everyone understands everyone elses passons for music. It's a nice thing.

[getz out]

Wille makes some good points.

 

Tom makes some good points.

 

Mike makes some good points.

 

Hell, even I have made some good points.

 

Cup, I must say I would be guilty of what you have observed. I do address each THREAD on its own merit, though. If I don't understand a question that a newbie has posted, you might consider my response to clarify the question a bit gruff, but I believe it is necessary to get to useful dialogue.

 

An example of a resident that takes a beating on the forum occasionally is BGO. BGO has made a name for himself by posting certain questions that have relatively simple answers. Some of them require the problem solving skills of some lower vertebrates. And yes, he receives a WARM response.

 

However, the fact that he receives a response at all actually means we care. I would like to see the kid actually learn something rather than spoon-feed him answers.

 

Does it get out of hand? There is potential for that. But what's brilliant is that a 15-year-old guy like BGO has the ability to POST and RESPOND with some learned veterans on the forum. My weekend-warrior status also allows me to interact with the same professionals.

 

Where else would you be able to bring such a relatively inexperienced fellow, a hobbyist like myself, and true professionals into a group discussion?

 

Unfortunately, though, in order to participate in useful dialogue exchanges, one is going to have to play by some form of rules. The internet forum is a medium, and you must learn how to use that medium to some extent.

 

This means posting in English on this forum. Posting in a readable prose will get you much farther than instant-message-speak. Spelling CORRECTLY helps keep everyone happy as well. I don't see anyone hammering people for misspelling an occasional word or two, but gross negligence in terms of spelling is a waste of every reader's time.

 

The "silly basic" questions that are posed, especially when well worded, are welcomed with open arms.

 

The "fl3a roolz" posts are usually flamed. Such is life.

 

Just my thoughts.

[jeremy c]

Thanks, Getz76. You have spoken wisely.

I agree 100%.

 

And now we don't have to discuss the differences in class distinctions in the UK and the US.

[...]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

Class can also be based on your social network -- the "who you know" phenomenon. If you travel and socialize in different class circles, you will take on some of that class identity, even though your income or education or profession, etc., might not correlate.

I've noticed this about myself. I tend to be friends with, and travel in the social cicles of people that would probably be considered lower-middle class. I tend to like these people more than the people that are in my same economic class. These people are more honest and 'real' people. My friends aren't concerned about what car you drive, how you dress, or what your stock portfolio looks like, and neither do I. My peers in my economic class all seem to think those things are important and that people should be judged by this stuff. That's BS from my point of view. I'm by no means rich, but I do live a very comfortable life because my day job allows me to.

 

To address these points:

 

the way you all talk about gear - Isn't that one of the points of this forum?

 

how and when you buy it - I buy it when I can afford to. I pay cash because credit cards and debt are the antichrist.

 

what it means to your life in general - I'd like to just play music, but I can't do that financially right now and make ends meet. I have a real job so I can support my music habit. My music habit pretty much runs my life.

 

auto-moblies - My truck is 7 years old right now. It would make me very happy if it lasted another 7-10 years. Automobiles are a hateful necessity.

 

grammar - So I know how to speak properly and communicate with others. What's wrong with that?

 

language - I speak English. That's it. I sort of remember some Spanish, but not enough to hold anything resembling a conversation. Granted, my English is a odd mix of American and The Queen's English; I have a lot of friends from the UK, Scotland, and Ireland.

 

spelling - Spelling words properly is a good thing. A knowledgeable person that has tons of spelling and grammatical errors can come across as sounding like an idiot.

 

probes on Mars - I'm a complete science geek. I admit it. Physics, astronomy, and math are fun for me. I know, I have issues.

 

sensiblities - I have none.

 

politics - I don't discuss them, mostly because I don't care. I know, I know, I'm a bad person, but I just don't. I'm of the defeated mindset that all politicians are Evil and we're pretty much screwed, regardless of which Evil person is sitting in office. Although, Dubya is a war mongering nazi that scares the hell out of me.

 

women - Are an interesting breed. I rather fancy some of them.

 

men - They are good friends and good for drinking beer round the pub with.

 

knock-backs - I would assume you mean in the sense of being rejected? Rejection sucks, but it's often a good learning experience.

 

careers - As stated previously, I have a good job with a software company. I like my day job and I've grown very fond of the freedom it gives me to do other things.

 

education - Is mind-numbingly important. Be it formal schooling or learning a trade from an expert of some sort. Educating yourself is a good thing.

 

musical approach - I like avante gard reggae operas, myself. With a healthy dose of yodeling.

 

substance abuse - Is bad and I'm glad I'm not a drug user or a smoker. I've seen what drugs can do to people and it's not something that I ever want to have happen to me.

 

computers - Are neat. They give you the ability to share porn and anonymously slander people on the internet.

[...]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

Thanks, Getz76. You have spoken wisely.

I agree 100%.

Yes indeed. Very wisely.