Most people on this forum are middle/upper class

[Cup]

Discuss*?

 

*(the way you all talk about gear, how and when you buy it, what it means to your life in general, auto-moblies, grammar, language, spelling, probes on Mars, sensiblities, politics, women, men, knock-backs, careers, education, musical approach, substance abuse, computers etc).

 

There is a special clique going on here, those with-in know who you are, and congratulate yourselves at every opportunity. What's your take on this forum?

 

(less than 30 replies, at least 31 genuine ones, will confirm my theory)

[R.S.M]

I'm not sure what your asking but i'm upper white trash.I grew up pretty poor.We ate white beans quit a bit and a few dinners were grits.Never went on vacations as a kid.Dad was always working on one of his clunkers so he could get to work.when i was about 12 I can remember during summer breaks stealing the neighbors lawnmower when he went to work to cut peoples grass to make money and put it back before he got home.My folks did not have the money to buy me reeboks and jordash jeans it was kmart specials so i was always hussling money to get what i wanted.I would collect aluminum cans take out peoples trash pull weeds from gardens it did not matter as long as it was for some green.when i was old enough to get a real job i was laborer at a refinery i worked 7 days a week 10 hours a day i put myself through school.I still work 60 to 90 hours a week so i can provide a good life for my family.Everything i have is from hard work nothing was ever given to me but love from my parents and a hard time from everybody else.I see kids nowadays saying they can't afford this or that ,thats bullshit you can get anything you want you just have to work hard to get it.The money is out there you just have to work to get it.

[Flash Bazbo]

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

(less than 30 replies, at least 31 genuine ones, will confirm my theory)

Are you serious?

 

Is it less than thirty or is it at least 31 that will prove you correct? Or is it both? Does this mean if there are exactly thirty (30) replies, you are proven conclusively wrong?

 

If only all such issues of great historical moment were so easily resolved!

 

I think you're right, though. I'm not part of the super-secret special clique, but I've heard about their secret meetings. I've seen their secret handshake. They all get together and sit in the shade and have tea and congratulate themselves and one another for hours on end. They occasionally reminisce about the day when they had to work for a living and they sometimes take time out to ridicule the poor working-class stiffs they exploit in order to feed their own bass buying habits. That's them alright.

[ClarkW]

Ok, I'll play your little game...

 

the way you all talk about gear - Just like everyone else does?

 

how and when you buy it - With cash (I bought my piano on 7 months same as cash, though), and whenever I darn well feel like buying it!

 

what it means to your life in general - I'm trying to become a semi-professional and possibly professional musician.

 

auto-moblies - I love my Jeep Cherokee and hope it hangs on for another 5 or 10 years.

 

grammar - I got all A's in school. For fun, I like to see how many typos and poorly-constructed phrases I can find in the Wall St. Journal in 60 seconds.

 

language - English and French, both of them pretty well.

 

spelling - Spelling correctly is like breathing in and out. I don't think about it, rarely do I screw up, and when something goes wrong, I notice immediately.

 

probes on Mars - I'm split; it's fun but I would rather more money go directly into education.

 

sensiblities - Rarely in public.

 

politics - The older I get, the more liberal I become. But I hate America's two-party system.

 

women - Don't get me started.

 

men - Flattered, but I don't swing that way.

 

knock-backs - This is a British term but I don't think I know exactly what it means so I won't comment on it.

 

careers - I'm a software engineer. I went to college for the express purpose of starting this career, and I started it immediately after finishing school.

 

education - One of the most critical elements of our existence, and sadly one of the most critically overlooked and underfunded.

 

musical approach - For those about to rock, I salute you!

 

substance abuse - Loathesome and destructive, both for the individual and society.

 

computers - I work with them, but they are a commodity of life, no longer interesting to me.

 

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

There is a special clique going on here, those with-in know who you are, and congratulate yourselves at every opportunity. What's your take on this forum?

I guess I'm not in the clique, since I'm not sure what you're talking about.

[Flash Bazbo]

Of course, in all seriousness, if a person owns a computer and is paying the electric bill so as to participate in this forum, he or she (globally speaking) is by definition middle or upper class -- tending more toward upper. I doubt there are any truly poor people participating in this forum. Poor people don't own basses or computers.

 

The poor of our world don't have electricity, clean water, sewage systems or adequate food. They can't imagine owning a computer and can't figure a reason why a person would want to spend good money that way. (Much less on a bass guitar.) Of course, many tens of millions have never seen money, so they wouldn't know what we're talking about.

 

It's not that "MOST" people here are middle/upper class -- we ALL are! And to pretend otherwise is hypocrisy.

[Mr M Pulsive]

I honestly don't know what the point of this thread is, but I suppose I'd consider myself middle class from the following reasoning alone.

 

I work a job that pays enough to pay the bills. There is very little left over.

 

...Far as buying gear, I spend alot of time hunting for deals, and find more than I can afford.

[mcbn]

If I were classified by my income I would be considered poor. Keep in mind though I am a college student, a graduate student at that, and we are all poor.

 

That being said, I do agree with you. The majority of this people, myself included, are upper middle class. When I was growing up I never had an extreme "need" for something. There were things that I wanted that I didn't have, but I always had food on the table, decent clothes on my back, and from the time I was 13, a few dollars in my pocket.

 

When I want gear, I buy it. I have a great relationship with Mastercard. I buy things with my card and will pay for it when I have the money. I graduate soon and am looking at a starting salary of between $55K and $65K per year. As a *mostly* single 25 year old that is not bad at all.

 

On a side note, I haven't found a very strong military presence on this forum. It may be something with musicians in general, the different views on life and liberty and so forth. But I joined the Army Reserves when I was 20 and went to Iraq last year. My younger brother (Active Army) left for Germany today and will be in Iraq or Afghanistan within 2 months. My family history includes someone in every war the U.S. has ever had.

 

I was raised to believe that the military builds discipline and college is a requirement. I did not have a choice in going to college. My younger brother did not have a choice in going to college. My younger sister will not have a choice in going to college. It is a requirement in my family. That is why my family is not poor. My parents both grew up dirt poor farm kids and wanted more.

[mcbn]

Oh yeah... my point.

 

You are very right Cup. And kudos for being brave enough to start a topic which could very well be political suicide leading to your exile.

 

The nature of this forum (a computer based discussion group for a relatively expensive hobby/profession) leads to a higher median income than the discussions that go on in the parking lot of the local auto parts store.

[dcr]

In addition to what Flash said--by global standards, we are all fabulously wealthy--it's important to note that a lot of the traditional correlations between money, noble birth, opportunities, education, and social position fail to hold in more & more cases all the time. I for instance have a doctorate, but my grandfather swept floors for a living; my folks did well (especially on zero college education), but we weren't what you could really call rich; I can barely afford a car, & I'll never be part of the elite no matter what I do. I'm therefore a really weird cross of upper class, middle class, & lower class. And I suspect most of us are just these kinds of hybrids; moreover, the kind of hybrid a person is will change quite a bit over time (e.g. if you have a doctorate, then there's a good chance that at some time in your life your income for several years was well below the poverty line). The "average" person on this forum goes to work every day, has some level of education, & can afford to get some gear every now & then (usually by selling other stuff, saving, &/or borrowing). I'd agree we're all pretty well off, in that sense, but I think we'd be hard pressed to fit us into anything even remotely resembling traditional class molds.

[61Pbass]

I'll bite.

 

BTW Clark, I thought you were being serious........

 

Am I middle class? Sure I am. Are most of the other posters here middle class also? Sure they are. Most of the posters here are not from third world countries, but from civilized industrial societies, and mostly the U.S. The predominant class in the U.S. is the middle class. Odds are rather slim that the demographics on this forum would be vastly different.

 

the way you all talk about gear I thought that was part of what this forum was supposed to entail.

 

how and when you buy it See above.

 

what it means to your life in general Again, see above. Personally, I was born into music. It is my job, one of my creative outlets and a great mood enhancer.

 

auto-mobiles A necessary evil. I have two. One for hauling gear and musicians, another for personal use which is much more efficient and environmentally friendly. Neither is new or pretty. Both serve their purpose well.

 

grammar I paid attention in school. Shoot me. I'm not perfect, nor would I ever claim to be. I live in a state which is considered by some to be full of nothing but hicks. I speak with an accent which some would consider to be 'hillbilly'. My main source of income for the last 30 years has quite often been in a genre that some consider to be for lowbrows. Why would I want to further alienate myself from the uninformed, prejudicial and ignorant people that I sometimes have to do business with by speaking and writing in a doltish manner, rather than using the God-given intelligence I have to improve my understanding of language and communications skills? I'd rather be taken seriously, thank you. I don't criticize others for their lack of a grasp on proper syntax and don't appreciate being taken to task for doing my best to properly convey my thoughts.

 

language See above.

 

spelling Again, see above.

 

probes on Mars I don't remember a thread on this subject. Maybe I missed it when I was on a road gig. I'll try the search feature and get back to you on that one, OK?

 

sensiblities Interaction between humans will inevitably reveal much about them. This is an international forum. Different cultures and social circles will have varying views.

 

politics My politics are my business, your's are your own. If I wanted to discuss my political views I'd log onto a political forum.

 

women Fascinating creatures. There is one in particular that I'm very enamored with.

 

men ...sometimes don't think things out very well before they spout off.

 

knock-backs As Clark said, this must be a colloquial term, so without clarification as to the use, I'll pass.

 

careers I believe most of us have them...

 

education I had a good one....could have been gooder. In all seriousness, some people make the most of the learning opportunities they're given. Some have more opportunity than others and do much less with it. I had a great public education, absorbed as much as I could, then worked my ass off to get a degree. Again, I paid attention in school. Shoot me.

 

musical approach See first three answers above.

 

substance abuse What about it? I really haven't seen a glut of posts condoning or condemning it. My personal opinion, since you don't know me, is basically worthless to this forum unless it is asked for in the context of an experience-based musical performance query.

 

computers Aren't we all using one right now?

 

As to there being a special clique on the forum, I honestly don't know where you're coming from with that. I have had no problems conversing with anyone nor felt excluded from anything since I joined this group. In reality, the entire forum is a clique. If you're not a musician, you're not going to feel a part of the group. Maybe if you could expound a bit on this I could see the point you're trying to make. As it is, you're shooting blanks....

 

There you go, honest, genuine and as complete as possible.

[57pbass]

My take on this forum ... its a place where any class is welcome..

 

Rich ..poor we are here to talk about bass and bass related topics..we sometimes get away from these topics but thats OK( to most of us anyway )

 

the way you all talk about gear.. thats whay this place is for..most of my friends could care less about my gear.

 

how and when you buy it, For the past few years if I saw something that was interesting and affordable I would buy it..its one of my favorite things to do..Explore, buy, sell, discuss and PLAY bass.

 

what it means to your life in general It has been a source of great pleasure over the last 30 years. I cannot imagine my life without music! I will play until I can no longer play...

 

auto-moblies I need wheels to haul my family, gear, myself... and theres nothing like a nice road trip..Have become pricey

 

grammar, spelling ,language Very important...

 

probes on Mars Very exciting..and interesting..who will be the first guy to play bass on Mars??? How are the acoustics..bass friendly..

 

politics Hate politics .. a neccesary evil

 

women In the words of the great philosopher

FLOUNDER " you cant live with them -you cant live without them"

 

men see above

 

knock-backs please explain what a Knock Back is .

 

careers many people are doing things they hate to do... life choices are made and we have to live with them or try to anyway...its a great thing to have something else to do aside from the 9 to 5 grind.. we all have to work ..in USA its socially unacceptable to be unemployed --if you're capable.

 

education a life long process

 

musical approach I am serious about my music..I could have done things differently ..its sometimes frustrating but I do the best that I can and have fun.

 

substance abuse never had a problem in this area..I have a family member who is a drug addict and its very very sad ...it takes it toll on a family.

 

computers a wonderful invention

 

I am a middle class working stiff and life is good..

[Lugsailer]

OOOOEEEE, back home, Jethro couldn't solve any problems. Now they say he's the number one problem child........Jed Clampett.

[g.]

Clue for some: you do not have to be upper middle class to have the internet. Here in Montana there are a LOT of people just getting by (seems back-east city people don't want logging - just huge summer homes and main residences built of lumber). But many of them seem to afford computers and dialup - if not DSL.

[DONUT]

the way you all talk about gear..

 

Considering how much time I spend with my instrument I feel its important. And its fun to talk shop.

 

 

how and when you buy it..

 

I have my ultimate rig and basses and it all was expensive.I've worked and gigged for all of it.

 

what it means to your life in general. Its what I do. It means I'm not working some crappy job,hating my life.

 

 

auto-moblies... I have an old Jeep Cherokee that I baby so it will last as long as possible. Knock on wood. Its been great so far. Good bass player vehicle. I wish I could do without gasoline,though. Maybe someday.

 

 

grammar, spelling ,language..

 

I do O.K. But I really don't care.

 

probes on Mars..

I think its really cool and all,but shouldn't be high on the priorities. It makes me angry.

 

politics..

 

I don't like to talk politics on bass forums.

 

 

women... are good. I love my girlfriend and we get on pretty well.

 

 

 

men...

 

shouldn't use their brains to make up for their penis shortcomings and make people feel bad to feel superior. Alot of men don't do this. Those that do annoy me. This is usually a problem with me.

 

knock-backs..

 

Wha? Its my birthday. I might knock some back this eve. Heheheheheh...um...er....sorry.

 

 

careers..

 

I consider music and life my career. I tried having a "real" career and it made me unhappy.

 

 

 

education..

 

Graduated from highscool. Its not my thing. I do it on my own time,how I want.I might go back to school.

 

 

 

musical approach...

 

Whatever makes songs feel correct and moves asses.

 

 

substance abuse...

 

I no longer do drugs. They make me ill. I still drink more than I'd like sometimes,but no biggie.

 

 

computers.. Are good.

 

I'm what you would call poor,I think. And I don't care. I make enough money to get by and have what I need. I buy few good quality things that last and keep it simple. I really don't pay attention to what people think should be done.. I like my life.

[music-man]

Middle class? I guess so - my wife and I both work day jobs, and we're neither filthy rich nor struggling poor.

Upper class - No, at least not relatively speaking. We're sadly lacking in the property and chattels that accompany wealth. (No house, no car, no washing machine, no dishwasher, one-room apartment, etc.) Then again, I think you'd have a hard time finding many people in this country who would admit to being "rich."

 

It's pretty predictable that this board would abound with middle-class bass players ... we all have not just the computers to provide access and an expensive interest, presumably we also have leisure time enough to waste diddling around on the Internet ...

 

Originally posted by CupMcMali:

There is a special clique going on here, those with-in know who you are, and congratulate yourselves at every opportunity. What's your take on this forum?

Whoa - this seems a little out of left field, and since it's not well-developed, I can't tell if it's actually the point of your post, or an inconsequential aside ...

 

If you're implying that the "non-middle/upper class" are excluded, I'm not so sure I'd agree.

 

Although, come to think of it, I can see how snide remarks aimed at newbies who ask about Squiers and Crate amps by oldtimers who own Accugrooves and Mike Lulls (relax - I'm just throwing out examples) might appear more "upper-crust" snobbishness than the age-old oldtime/newbie thing. Assuming this is the association you're making ... I guess I'd caution that a lot of us who have good gear (might I include myself among them?) started out with a lot less (i.e. - in my case a $50 Dixon P-copy and a Gorilla amp), and have only moved up by virtue of years and successive trade-ups.

 

But if I'm missing the mark here, please clarify. For some reason this thread is interesting to me, perhaps in part because of the way people (particularly Americans) react to being "accused" of being associated with an economic class ...

[getz out]

Most people on the forum are middle class? Wow, that's not shocking news; most people from the US and UK are middle class! If you would like to buy into the rhetoric of politicians who talk of the disappearing middle class, go ahead. But last I check in the US the median income is high enough to keep people under a roof, with a car, a TV, cable, food, internet, and a vacation. That sounds like middle class to me. That's not to say there will not be times without sturggle, but nobody said life was easy.

 

People who come from money tend to keep around the same level of living alive. However, those that don't come from money can do okay as well. I grew up extremely poor. I paid attention (when it counted) in public school, I struggled to pay my way through state college, and now I live very comfortably while still having enough money to spend on my toys.

 

Now, regarding high-end rigs, etc. There are two categories. Guys like Jeremy are working pros. They spend money on their tools. Hell, I spend (well, actually, my company spends) about $20k a year on continuing education for me. So $5-10k for a bass and a rig doesn't seem excessive, especially since it will last numerous years.

 

Other non-pros (like me) have high-end rigs. It's my passion, and I'm lucky enough to have the cash to purchase such toys.

 

I'll disagree with Music Man regarding the "talking down." I know you qualified your statement Ken, but I haven't seen any regular tell a newbie that a "Squire" wasn't good enough. It's usually just the opposite. If a kid is going to try to play a gig with a Gorilla amp, I think we'd all try to steer he or she straight, but I don't think there are many gear snobs on the forum. My $2k bass isn't going to make me sound better than a better player on a Squire Jazz or P. (unfortunately for me!)

 

And I think the forum accepts all types of political and social views. I get along with a few guys on this forum that could not have more convergent views than mine. I still like them, even if they're wrong.

[haggard]

As for that of "no people from third world countries", you may well be wrong. I've read in this forum messages from people originally from african countries other than South Africa (though settled in UK or so), and I myself was borned in Mexico but live in Switzerland. Daddy did not send me here, at 44 I earn my living by myself.

As for the social class question and all that it implies, I could be considered to have had a privileged education (there are privileges in third world countries as long as you do work and earn them...). Now I am starting a medical Ph.D. in an european university, and I pay it myself with my work (thanks to my privileged education...). My salary is above the swiss media, but unfortunately this leaves not too much free time for music.

P.S.: Sorry about any possible syntaxis or spelling mistake, English is not my mother language.

[Cowbell]

I definetly think its safe to say PJR is in the way upper class.

[R.S.M]

so how much money splits the different classes?

[Rik]

I'm unemployed and live in a homeless shelter.

 

I have a Macintosh G4 with a 19" monitor, and a DSL connection over Ethernet.

 

I have four basses: Tobias Toby-Pro 5-string, Fender Geddy Lee Jazz, Steinberger Spirit 4-string, and a Samick 4-string of undetermined model.

 

I have a Carvin RL6815 amp.

[Tedster]

Actually, I'm not middle class. I'll have to discuss it later, though. My butler, Kensington, just informed me that my fencing lesson was about to start. Let me see, where ARE the keys to the Lamborghini? I hope I don't have to drive the Bentley again.

 

[Edendude]

I would say I'm somewhere between working class and middle class, if I had to guess. But I'm also 43 years old, and by the time you get to my age one expects to at least be financially grounded.

 

I think we are dealing with a pretty diverse group of people on this message board, from teenage bedroom musicians whom are just starting out playing bass, to guys who play in the trenches five nights per week, to weekend club scene warriors, and even a few world-class pros.

 

Frankly I don't see any 'cliques' within this online community, and it's the diversity that keeps me coming back. I could care less if the people whom participate are forty-somethings with a fair amount of disposable income to toss around on gear, or college kids whom eat mac and cheese for years so they can save up to by a Workingman's 115 combo amp.

 

It's the love of music and playing the bass which we all share in common, and that's all that really matters.

 

P.S....

 

If I didn't have a money gobbling hobby like the off-road scene I'm heavily involved with, I'd probably be diverting some more of that disposable income into a high-end bass rig purchase. Although my regular weekend gig as a bassist for a blues and jazz club house-band really only justifies the rig I own now, which is far from high-end, but more substancial than what the average rock and roll clubber probably owns.

[ricknbokkerv2.0]

Shoot, man... I've been talking about the same gear for about 5 years.

 

I was upper-middle class right up to my divorce.

Now I'm so broke, I can't even pay attention...

 

Ricky

(Applying for the job as Tedster's oil change mechanic any minute now...)

[Aussie bass dude]

I dont fit in any class here in Australia becuase I lack it

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

Ah, SHIT! Here I was, just coming to grips with the fact that I'm white, middle class, heterosexual, Christian, male, of Western European extraction, want nice things, have a diceint paying job, a high school education and not disabled, and sure enough I read this post and the guilt has just come rushing back!

 

Five years of therapy, down the drain!

 

I would like to apologize to the world for screwing it up! Please forgive me!!!!

[davebrownbass]

When you think of the standard of living of US citizens compared to the rest of the world, even countries like France and Japan, we generally live fabled lives.

 

I mean, here I sit in a 2500 Sq. ft. home, nice lot, walking distance to an incredible High School, inground pool in the back yard...4 cars in the drive, including the requisite mini-van, a chow named Raven. Shoot, I'll bet I've got $4000 in tools gathered up around here. I have a couple of kids in college.

 

Nope, I don't have a big bank account, just a couple paychecks away from losing it all, I guess. My furniture (even my home) is getting worn out (we'll wait 'til we're empty-nesters to fix it all up.) I'm upset because my swimming pool needs a $5000 repair; most of the rest of the world doesn't have clean water to drink.

 

If I were in India, I'd be the richest man in town, by far. So for the rest of the third world.

 

We Americans don't often recognize just how well off we are. In general, every need we have is satisfied, as well as most wants.

 

Much of the rest of the world lives with unfulfilled need; medicine, nutrition, education.

 

We must never forget, those of us who've been blessed with so much, that our gifts may just be the result of the sacrifice of others.

[jeremy c]

There is a special clique going on here, those with-in know who you are, and congratulate yourselves at every opportunity.

Not sure what this means, it sounds kind of provocative to me.

less than 30 replies, at least 31 genuine ones, will confirm my theory

This means even less to me.

 

Most people on this forum are middle/upper class

That's probably true, but relatively meaningless. It would seem to me that membership in an online forum would definitely limit the group in some ways.

 

In answer to your questions (if indeed they are questions):

 

the way you all talk about gear

We talk about gear obsessively. Like most musicians.

 

how and when you buy it

We buy it in stores and online. When we need it or when we want it. Like most musicians.

 

what it means to your life in general

It means a lot to our life. Like most musicians.

 

auto-moblies (this probably means automobiles)

Nearly all of us drive a vehicle which is large enough to carry our gear around in. Like most musicians.

 

grammar

Some of us older, regular posters like to encourage people to write in a way in which they will be understood. Does that make us a clique?

 

language

This forum is in English. Some of the non-native speakers of English seem to write better than native Americans. I enjoy pointing this out.

 

spelling

What I said above. Some of us older, regular posters like to encourage people to write in a way in which they will be understood.

 

probes on Mars

If there are bass players on Mars, we want to know about it first.

 

politics

Never discuss religion or politics at a party.

 

women

We encourage their participation.

 

men

Likewise.

 

knock-backs

Don't know what this is.

 

sensiblities

I believe in being sensible.

 

careers

I am a career musician. It's not an easy career and not one which one chooses. It chooses you.

 

education

Can be helpful to learn music.

 

musical approach

There are many musical approaches discussed on this forum.

 

substance abuse

Seems to be frowned on in this forum. We've all seen the long-term results, some of us have seen this at close hand.

 

computers

Everyone on this forum uses one.

 

As far as my background, my grandparents arrived in this country penniless. My parents went to college at some of the best schools in the country. I grew up in an upper middle class family. When it became obvious that I was going to be a musician, my parents supported my decision. I also went to top universities....the second one of these was financed by gigging five nights a week. I suppose you could say that I am upper middle class now, but because my wife and I are musicians we do this on about a third the income of our non-musician friends.

 

What was the question?

[TIMMY]

I have a wife 2 kids too many bills have to file bankruptcy and it will take me 2yrs to save up for a rickenbacker like the one that you have.and an amplifier i have a dinky piece of shit peavey practice amp, i play a beat up fender jazz when i was a teenager 20 yrs ago for which i paid 200.00right now the value of all my gear is 150.00 so i can only hope to find a band and make it like the beatles

[Nicklab]

I think I understand where you're coming from, Cup. From experience with my friends in the UK and some general knowledge, I've noticed that people in the UK and Ireland are more acutely aware of their class status.

 

As for the same type of thing here...when it gets brought up in a political context, say when it pertains to taxes and how the tax brackets work, the political rightwing refers to that sort of argument as inciting class warfare. They just don't want people to know how much better the rich people have it than the middle and lower classes.

 

As it pertains to this forum, yes, I think that the internet is primarily the medium of the middle class in America. They have more disposable income at hand for computers, as well as for bass gear. You make an astute observation, however I don't think that most people out here think of things in a class context. I see people trying to work on their music from a budget perspective more often than not.

[Mr M Pulsive]

So where's the thread originator anyhow? I'd kinda like to know what the purpose of this thread is. I still don't get it.