Equipment and Skill

[zeronyne]

Originally posted by Sweet Willie:

(Bring your Hondo, Rogue, Alembic, Fender, Fodera, Samick, Ibanez, Peavey, frankenbass, Nordstrand, Sadowsky, Lull, kit bass, Carvin, Warmoth special, Seismic, Juzek, Kay, NS EUB, Hoyt, Bee, Wishbass, or washtub with you!)

Yeah, but which one is the BEST??? C'mon, someone's gotta know!!

[Dennyf]

Originally posted by BenLoy:

I owned a very crappy '78 Precision when I started playing (it was definately one of the bad ones). I played it for 3 years, the first year without an amp. When I had a tough time emulating the sound of a player on a record, I kept practicing. I didn't blame the bass.

 

Right on, say it brother!

 

I'm primarily a guitarist now instead of a bassist, but yeah, I came up in a similar fashion, emphasizing technique over hardware in emulating other players, which is the bigger portion of an individual's sound anyway.

 

In a backhanded way, limited gear makes you work harder on the REAL instrument, which is yourself. (Help! I've fallen into my own navel and I can't climb out!).

[Tom Capasso]

I have to say that I started on a very bad bass with horrible action. It came to me after many dives from a second story bedroom into a pool. When I got my first "decent" bass (an EB3 that many here wouldn't consider "decent"), it made a huge difference.

 

When people buy advanced gear and can't use it, it doesn't make them a better player.

When people are playing bad instruments, there is room for improvement (without spending much money). I've played 3 or 4 basses under $350 that were really good (not "finger breakers" like I started on).

 

In HS, there is a tendency to parade your gear (and your "look", and the success of the bands that you are copying) and act like you've made it. For me, as long as it doesn't get too obnoxious I don't care. But they better keep practicing and paying attention....

 

Tom

[_Sweet Willie_]

Another way to think about all this...

 

How lucky are we that there is so much for us to choose from -- from custom to factory to custom-factory to DIY?!

 

We can choose to lay it down w/ Fender Ps thru Fender Bassman amps, or we can choose to lay it down with a "hippie sandwich" 8-string Alembic thru Avalon preamps, Lab.Gruppen power amps, and AccuGroove cabs. We can each inevitably find gear that speaks really well to us and for us. Ain't choice grand?

 

We worry less about who's playing what and more about what works for ourselves and we're in pretty good shape. Last summer in Calif w/ Wally, Jeremy, and Mark I played a few high-end instruments -- a Zon 5 fretless, a Smith fretted 6, a Lull fretted 5, and an MTD fretted 6. All four were very nice basses, and all four cost $2500+.

 

The Smith was not comfortable to me.

 

The Zon was pretty nice, but I like my EB MM StingRay5 fretless better.

 

I was surprised not to be wowed by the Lull (but it was nice), and at first I thought it was discomfort with the 35" scale.

 

But the MTD (also 35" scale) really did it for me -- even given some fear about taming 6 strings. Felt great. Played great. I almost was able to convince Jeremy to buy it for me. (Well, that might be an exaggeration -- I think he may have said something like, "If I had the money to do that, I'd buy it for myself, sucka." There's a picture of Jeremy playing that bass that day up on his bass webpage.)

 

We've said it a million times on this board -- the gear does not make the player. Playing makes the player (along the lines of CMDN's zen approach). Gear helps us out along our journey.

 

Peace.

 

(PS: Anyone wanna buy me an MTD 5- or 6-string? )

[jeremy c]

As per GB's request, I am trucking all my gear to the landfill.

 

Actually I don't sound much different on any of my various basses. Usually the members of the band don't know what bass I am playing without looking at me. You can hear the difference in the studio but the difference isn't really that big. But I do like to please picky producers.

 

People seem to be very happy when I bring my 33 year old Jazz bass and my 20 year old Roland amp to gigs. And my 33 jazz bass was not a high end bass when I bought it, it was just a bass, factory made on an assembly line at the time when CBS owned Fender. It's only become a high end bass over the years because of vintage mania.

 

I own various basses because at this point in my life I can afford them. I own various amps so that I can be heard in a variety of situations. I like all my basses and amps and could easily play for the next 40 years on almost any one of them.

 

I keep buying gear because I have a G.A.S. addiction. And a Platinum Visa card. And everytime I buy some more gear, my wife buys some new furniture, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a win-win situation.

[getz out]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

I own various basses because at this point in my life I can afford them. I own various amps so that I can be heard in a variety of situations. I like all my basses and amps and could easily play for the next 40 years on almost any one of them.

 

I keep buying gear because I have a G.A.S. addiction. And a Platinum Visa card. And everytime I buy some more gear, my wife buys some new furniture, so as far as I'm concerned, it's a win-win situation.

Well put. I don't need my overpriced bass to sound good, but I like it and I am comfortable with it. And, I can afford it.

 

Most people do not need a high-priced European sports sedan to get around town (or monster-sized SUV's). But, if you can afford it, go for it.

 

I sound like me with nearly any bass I play. I wish I sounded more like Jeremy. However, when I play my favorite, which happens to be priced over $2k street, I'm happier. And isn't that what it's all about? Screw the audience and the status. Just be happy.

 

P.S. Jeremy, that is a win-win. Mmm... furniture.

[g.]

Maybe some of those basses and rigs could be the start of a boutique furniture line. Hold off on that landfill.

[getz out]

Originally posted by greenboy:

Maybe some of those basses and rigs could be the start of a boutique furniture line. Hold off on that landfill.

In college, my Ampeg 4x10" was one of my end-tables. Does that count?

[dcr]

Originally posted by Re Che:

(a) Does it mean that if you own high end equipment like American Fenders and Gibsons mean you are really good musician? (b) I mean at my school it seems that the worst players have the best equipment ...

I guess I'm puzzled. As to (a), why would anyone ever think that in the first place? And as to (b), haven't you just answered your own question?

 

Is there an issue here?

 

Remember that three bassists (3 who come immediately to mind, i.e.) who in their careers changed the entire world of electric bass--Jamerson, Duck, Jaco--did so on what was really pretty ordinary gear, especially by today's standards; a standard P Bass or hacked-up J is hardly high end. Then there are the other great players of earlier periods who had even less extraordinary gear.

 

Of course, that's not to say that there's no reason to get extraordinary gear, or a variety of gear. When I was a beginner, I was blown a way by a low-end Yamaha fretless; several years later I A/B'd it with a Sterling fretless, and there was just no going back. I'm sure folks who own Foderas & the like can tell you that this process repeats itself. And the differences matter. But the matter only if they matter to the player; it still comes down to the player. As Jeremy said, a good player can get the goods out of it.

 

I also like to a have multiple basses. I like to think that each bass I have (only 3) does something useful enough to justify my having it, & something that none of the others can quite replicate. Does the audience notice when I switch between a Fender & a Ric, or between one of them & the fretless? Maybe some do, esp. with the fretless (I had a good experience a while back when a couple of people who know when the bass sounds good or bad, but don't notice much more, came up & said they just loved whatever it was I'd done on this one song, which was a fretless counter-melody); most won't, I guess. But I notice, and so do my band-mates, esp. the drummer & perhaps the guitarist; and you know what? That might make us play differently; I know that my flat-strung Ric leads me to different kinds of feels than my bright round-strung Fender, & that gets around. Also, part of the point of switching is to switch to something that will fit seamlessly with what we're doing; I often switch because I don't want people to notice! They're supposed to find the whole pleasing.

 

The upshot is that I doubt anyone in the audience would pass a blindfold test on when I'd switched from Ric to Fender, say (and some of them wouldn't know when I'd switched to a fretless); I'm not so deluded as to think that people are really focusing on what I'm doing in particular, or should be. BUT it doesn't follow from that that they're not hearing the difference. They can still hear it in the whole that's greater than the sum of its parts, because of an overall tonal difference, mix difference, feel difference, etc. (Of course, there are those who really can't tell any differences anywhere; but surely we don't make choices based on what will make a difference to those to whom nothing will make a difference!) If the gear serves the music, and the music serves the listener, then the gear has served the listener too, even if he or she is completely unaware that it has.

 

Then finally there's personal satisfaction. I'd like a StingRay, both for all of the above reasons and because, dammit, I really dig them.

 

I love to practice, but even so, if my gear-lust time all got devoted to practicing, I'd be a helluva lot better. That's the truth.

[bubba upright]

A lot of musicians (especially us GASsy bass players) have a tendancy to covet our neighbors cool equipment, even though we've only HEARD that a particular make is cooler than our own. When you're a beginner, that belief is amplified, especially when you're a teenager and are more prone to emulating your favorite player.

I try to impart to my few students that before you get into spending mega bucks on equipment, you need to discover what your personal needs as a player are, and this is only done through practice. If your first bass + rig sounds like a bass and stays in tune, then you're on the right track. Get to the point where you can make that $250.00 Ibanez sound pretty good...it IS possible....then worry about equipment. A spaulted-maple top sure is pretty, but overall, it ain't gonna turn you into Vic Wooten. Of course, there will come a time when you will recognize the sonic difference between P and J pickups or maple versus alder. Until that time, just PLAY to improve yourself. I know a guy that tours with a major headlining act and has an endorsement deal with ESP. He has all kinds of fancy guitars now, but he still kinda sucks. Conversely, there is this local cat that plays in a local funk-soul band that plays an '89 Squier strat and sounds incredible.

It's hard to be a teenager, especially when your friends and peers have nicer stuff than you, but stay the course, bud, and eventually you'll be able to acquire better stuff and most importantly--be able to play it.

[Mr. Phil]

Originally posted by jeremyc:

But people recognized that we could play and we got hired.

Hmmmm....That doesn't seem the way modern music "executives" think.

[PickPunk]

To answer the original question, i'm gonna stay on the same path that everyone else is on here in saying that the gear doesn't make the player better, sure it may make said player more comfortable, but it will in no way improve his playing. The player makes the player. I'm in high-school too and i notice a lot of poeple walking around like they're the best player in the world because they own a name brand guitar when they couldn't play to save their lives. I myself play the same Ibanez model as you and personally i think it kicks ass, it does everything i want it to and sounds the way i want it too while still being comfortable to play. If its not as comfortable for you that's fine, but does it really make you play any worse than you would on an american fender or gibson? The point of playing music isnt to have the coolest gear, its to have fun. The only time i really think i need a new bass is when this one starts to make me unhappy with playing music (or when i start gigging but then it'll just be a backup so if i still like my ibanez i'll probably just get the same one again ).

 

I'm not saying you can't like other basses, i'm sure there have already been many times when you've seen a bass and said "damn that looks cool" or played one and said "damn that sounds fine" but you really have to learn to appreciate the gear you have more, like i said before, if you're really unhappy with a piece of equipment than look for something else but other than that (or just happening to find THE bass somewhere that you believe you have to have for reasons other than its brand name, or needing a backup for gigs) i say learn to appreciate what you have more and don't worry about what everyone else is playing.

 

peace

 

peace

[Aussie bass dude]

For me,it aint the type of the boat its the motion on the ocean

[Re Che]

If you are in school, you play what you can get your hands on right?

 

Yeah. Ive really learned alot here. Im going to keep on practicing and learning. my bass is okay for me anyway. Its just that my school has a 1968 p bass thats really good(all original parts, lost knobs,chipped pickguard,and no truss rod, and very very groovy) I played on it alot and it was a helluva instrument(im lucky that he allows me to use it). My band director bought during the 60's for like $350 and I think he said he got offered $6000 for it.I dont believe it though. Anyway, seeing that bass makes me want to buy a better bass than mine(GAS), but you guys are right.I have an ibanez sr300 and I think I can manage on that and still groove. Im just going to continue practicing. I was just getting opinions on the skill level and equipment issues. You guys have been very helpful and thank you all for sharing you're responses.

[Re Che]

I also saw Vic Wooten's brother, regi wooten, on victor wooten:live at bass day 98 dvd playing a strat that says squier on the headstock. Regi makes it sound much better, especially with his skill. His slap/pop/tap on the guitar is crazy!

[Cthulhu Fhtagn]

A positively crap bass (like my Squire) in the hands of an true musician and artist (not me) is an instrument. The most expensive bass in the world, in the hands of a hack, is a toy.

 

If you have great gear, and you play it, great. If you have great gear, and spend all your time telling everone what great gear you have, who cares.

 

Grab an axe and grind, man! That's what it's about.

[HypnoBassMan]

Having the best equipment only counts if you got it by getting paid for making music by people who appriciate the music that you are playing.

[getz out]

Originally posted by HypnoBassMan:

Having the best equipment only counts if you got it by getting paid for making music by people who appriciate the music that you are playing.

I guess my equipment doesn't count then. What do I do with it now?

[alexclaber]

Originally posted by HypnoBassMan:

Having the best equipment only counts if you got it by getting paid for making music by people who appriciate the music that you are playing.

What?!! I've got the equipment I felt I needed to fulfil my artistic vision - where does making money come into it? Why shouldn't an non-professional artist use the best tools he can afford?

 

Alex

[Mike H.]

I've been playing bass for 10 years now. I've got all high-end equipment by SWR, Yamaha, G&L & Schecter. I don't have the greatest chops, but I have good, solid gear that hasn't caused me problems in the years I've owned them.

 

I don't think you can judge someone by the gear they own. I know a few local cats that are using Mexican Strats to play their weekend gigs, and they're some of the best in the area.

[getz out]

Originally posted by C.Alexander Claber:

What?!! I've got the equipment I felt I needed to fulfil my artistic vision - where does making money come into it? Why shouldn't an non-professional artist use the best tools he can afford?

Don't you know it's all about money? Come on, Alex; artistic vision? You're talking like a musician! [/sarcasm]

 

Well, if I only purchased products from the proceeds of my playing (which at one point was semi-extensive locally), I would be relegated to playing a rubber bands stretched between two strings, unamplified. It's tough playing originals, see Clatter's financial information; what was it, $38 a gig on average for a two-piece? Ugg.

 

Luckily, the fact that I work my ass off at a "day-gig" allows me to afford things I want to play.

 

-Maury